12gauge82 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, oowee said: Not sure what took them so long to clamp down on this yobish behavior. Unless there's something I'm unaware of, it looks like they're clamping down on free speach, while I agree calling people Nazis and heckling them in the street is not a nice way to behave and I wouldn't do it, to drag people off the street for simply expressing a view the establishment don't like is dangerous, how many times has Farage been called a Nazi, heckled and worse, I don't see people arrested then, because it fits the left wing narrative of the establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Unless there's something I'm unaware of, it looks like they're clamping down on free speach, while I agree calling people Nazis and heckling them in the street is not a nice way to behave and I wouldn't do it, to drag people off the street for simply expressing a view the establishment don't like is dangerous, how many times has Farage been called a Nazi, heckled and worse, I don't see people arrested then, because it fits the left wing narrative of the establishment. I agree ( 🙂 ) but there are two sides to these things. The snippet I saw with Anna looked very unpleasant and if that is really happening every day then it's not on. I also heard threats re the European flag pole and female orifices and this sort of threat and abusiveness needs to be contained. It is a thin line between free speech and abusive and threatening behavior. One persons reasonable behavior is another's unreasonable. Police seem to be in an impossible position on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, oowee said: I agree ( 🙂 ) but there are two sides to these things. The snippet I saw with Anna looked very unpleasant and if that is really happening every day then it's not on. I also heard threats re the European flag pole and female orifices and this sort of threat and abusiveness needs to be contained. It is a thin line between free speech and abusive and threatening behavior. One persons reasonable behavior is another's unreasonable. Police seem to be in an impossible position on this. I don't disagree, but is this standard enforced to protect everyone equally? Or is it conveniently ignored by the authorities when perpetrated by individuals and groups, against 'certain' sections of society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, oowee said: I agree ( 🙂 ) but there are two sides to these things. The snippet I saw with Anna looked very unpleasant and if that is really happening every day then it's not on. I also heard threats re the European flag pole and female orifices and this sort of threat and abusiveness needs to be contained. It is a thin line between free speech and abusive and threatening behavior. One persons reasonable behavior is another's unreasonable. Police seem to be in an impossible position on this. I wasn't aware of some of the things you've mentioned there, however, why wasn't he arrested at the time? I can assure you, if it were you or me, nothing would be done, I was involved in a fight the other day protecting someone unknown to me being assaulted by a total psyco, while I won the fight, the perpetrator ran off after some of my property was damaged, the police officer while sympathetic wasn't interested in even the most basic of investigation, yet an MP gets offended and all the stops get pulled out, that's what bothers me, it appears (although I admit I don't know all the facts) that the establishment has used its power to step on someone they'd like to silence, if I'm correct, I think its very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: Not sure what took them so long to clamp down on this yobish behavior. 😂 Because, up until this point, the yobish behavior wasn't directed at the right people . When JRM or Farage get abused, ruffed up, cars damaged or run out of restaurants, no one gets arrested, it barely makes news, its like the establishment rubber stamps it, like they deserve it for their controversial views. Soubrey has controversial views, but they are the 'right' ones, so gets the full backing of the press, government and police. If you read the entirety of the link, do you agree that Goddard was treated fairly? What about his family? Do you think his stepfather should have to surrender his firearms, when he's clearly nothing to do with it? If you think that's all right and proper, then beware of what you wish for, this is the road to the banning of free speech, where your voice, or online footprint can be used to curtail, and in all probability, destroy your life. Soubrey made her bed, she spends most of her time in London, because she literally cannot walk the streets of Nottingham, such is the anger she has invoked, yet when someone calls her a nazi, the self righteous indignation she invokes is as fake as a fake thing. Yet then and now, the term was used freely, by all and sundry against any man and his pug, to anyone who challenged the remain script. Hypocrisy and double standards much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 12 hours ago, oowee said: Result 👍 On a par with Mauritania. The only country that trades only on WTO terms. Not bad for a country on the edge of greatness. Will liam Fox pull his finger out? Definitely NOT up to your usual standard of debate......................... 1 hour ago, oowee said: I agree ( 🙂 ) but there are two sides to these things. The snippet I saw with Anna looked very unpleasant and if that is really happening every day then it's not on. I also heard threats re the European flag pole and female orifices and this sort of threat and abusiveness needs to be contained. It is a thin line between free speech and abusive and threatening behavior. One persons reasonable behavior is another's unreasonable. Police seem to be in an impossible position on this. Seems strange.......Farage was abused, heckled, his car attacked (whilst his children were in it).................Jacob Mogg has had similar problems, yet the media ignore it, and the Establishment turn a blind eye................but if you are a Remoaner, a Leftie, or a member of an ethnic grouping, all Hell breaks loose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rewulf said: 😂 Because, up until this point, the yobish behavior wasn't directed at the right people . When JRM or Farage get abused, ruffed up, cars damaged or run out of restaurants, no one gets arrested, it barely makes news, its like the establishment rubber stamps it, like they deserve it for their controversial views. Soubrey has controversial views, but they are the 'right' ones, so gets the full backing of the press, government and police. If you read the entirety of the link, do you agree that Goddard was treated fairly? What about his family? Do you think his stepfather should have to surrender his firearms, when he's clearly nothing to do with it? If you think that's all right and proper, then beware of what you wish for, this is the road to the banning of free speech, where your voice, or online footprint can be used to curtail, and in all probability, destroy your life. Soubrey made her bed, she spends most of her time in London, because she literally cannot walk the streets of Nottingham, such is the anger she has invoked, yet when someone calls her a nazi, the self righteous indignation she invokes is as fake as a fake thing. Yet then and now, the term was used freely, by all and sundry against any man and his pug, to anyone who challenged the remain script. Hypocrisy and double standards much? Absolutely bang on! Whilst we would all like a better standard of political behaviour, it,s understandable when someone actively betrays the democratic vote! There is an upswell of anger that is going to be hard to contain............... 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: Unless there's something I'm unaware of, it looks like they're clamping down on free speach, while I agree calling people Nazis and heckling them in the street is not a nice way to behave and I wouldn't do it, to drag people off the street for simply expressing a view the establishment don't like is dangerous, how many times has Farage been called a Nazi, heckled and worse, I don't see people arrested then, because it fits the left wing narrative of the establishment. P>S> Not Bumpty today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, pinfireman said: Absolutely bang on! Whilst we would all like a better standard of political behaviour, it,s understandable when someone actively betrays the democratic vote! There is an upswell of anger that is going to be hard to contain............... P>S> Not Bumpty today? No 🙂 We were out foxing the other night and i was on his lap top whilst waiting to go. I am trying to put off finishing the gralloch on a runt of deer hanging from my log store as i am guessing it froze last night. JRM's country house is very close to me here (almost a neighbour). From what i see there he is very well protected now. Your right to raise the point about different treatments for different folk and it certainly looks like that is the case, but it would also be true in many walks of life. Shouting about it can often make a big difference. The firearms issue sounds unfair but I know of several events where this has unfairly happened to people I know. Where i would disagree strongly is comments like 'Soubry made her bed'. These are just representative's of the people doing there job. Whatever position they take be they JRM, AS or NF in my book that is their job. They do not deserve to be abused, jostled, intimidated or have obscenities shouted at them and each of them deserves the same standard of protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, oowee said: 'Soubry made her bed'. These are just representative's of the people doing there job. Whist I disagree with some of the actions on BOTH sides - in the case of AS she is not doing the job, representing the majority of her constituents,she was elected to do - her area voted about 65/35 out not remain which she is one of the most vocal for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: Whist I disagree with some of the actions on BOTH sides - in the case of AS she is not doing the job, representing the majority of her constituents,she was elected to do - her area voted about 65/35 out not remain which she is one of the most vocal for +1 She wouldn't be taking any flak if she didn't take the stance she is. At the end of the day though, you go into public life, with or without a popular view, you ARE going to get attention from the public, good and bad. So if you can't stand the heat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Lets make Toxic Soubry her new tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Lets make Toxic Soubry her new tag. Careful , she might get you arrested ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, oowee said: No 🙂 We were out foxing the other night and i was on his lap top whilst waiting to go. I am trying to put off finishing the gralloch on a runt of deer hanging from my log store as i am guessing it froze last night. JRM's country house is very close to me here (almost a neighbour). From what i see there he is very well protected now. Your right to raise the point about different treatments for different folk and it certainly looks like that is the case, but it would also be true in many walks of life. Shouting about it can often make a big difference. The firearms issue sounds unfair but I know of several events where this has unfairly happened to people I know. Where i would disagree strongly is comments like 'Soubry made her bed'. These are just representative's of the people doing there job. Whatever position they take be they JRM, AS or NF in my book that is their job. They do not deserve to be abused, jostled, intimidated or have obscenities shouted at them and each of them deserves the same standard of protection. I take your point, but I know that Soubry (and most of her pals) failed dismally to bring this behaviour up in Parliament when it happened to Mogg, Johnson, Farage etc.....and she has somewhat over-egged what happened to try to gain public sympathy. She will not get any from me.......... 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: +1 She wouldn't be taking any flak if she didn't take the stance she is. At the end of the day though, you go into public life, with or without a popular view, you ARE going to get attention from the public, good and bad. So if you can't stand the heat.... Not to worry, she will be out of the kitchen after the next election! Not that it will unduly worry her, financially.....her partner is the CEO of Morrisons supermarkets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Had an interesting conversation last night with a gentleman at a Mark meeting. He was fairly adamant that we HAD to have another referendum. Whys that I asked , what was wrong with the first one ? We were LIED to, the bus , blah blah, we were promised a free trade deal, its all about racists and immigration blah ! So I said, the remainers didnt lie ? Not much, he replied. Anyway, we continued the convo over dinner, where it became apparent his main issue with Brexit, was his property in the Dordoyne , where he likes to spend his summers, was the real issue. 'I used to spend June to October there, now I can only spend 90 days before I have to come back' Whos told you that will be a result of Brexit I asked. Its been in all the papers he replied. Do you mean the Guardian and the Indy ? Yes. I said you do realise thats a Shengen rule NOW dont you ? 90 days in any 180 ? Nothing to do with Brexit at all, you should really apply for a short stay visa when you go for the summer. But we have free movement of people he replied, Brexit cancels that ! Obviously not that free, and no not really, you can still live and work in France, and you can still spend the summer there, you just need to apply and pay for a visa, just like you do now. Has anyone else heard of this 'new' 90 day rule 'coming in' after Brexit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Had an interesting conversation last night with a gentleman at a Mark meeting. He was fairly adamant that we HAD to have another referendum. Whys that I asked , what was wrong with the first one ? We were LIED to, the bus , blah blah, we were promised a free trade deal, its all about racists and immigration blah ! So I said, the remainers didnt lie ? Not much, he replied. Anyway, we continued the convo over dinner, where it became apparent his main issue with Brexit, was his property in the Dordoyne , where he likes to spend his summers, was the real issue. 'I used to spend June to October there, now I can only spend 90 days before I have to come back' Whos told you that will be a result of Brexit I asked. Its been in all the papers he replied. Do you mean the Guardian and the Indy ? Yes. I said you do realise thats a Shengen rule NOW dont you ? 90 days in any 180 ? Nothing to do with Brexit at all, you should really apply for a short stay visa when you go for the summer. But we have free movement of people he replied, Brexit cancels that ! Obviously not that free, and no not really, you can still live and work in France, and you can still spend the summer there, you just need to apply and pay for a visa, just like you do now. Has anyone else heard of this 'new' 90 day rule 'coming in' after Brexit ? Fairly typical REMOANER attitude then, all about himself! NOT THE COUNTRY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 The Remoaners at the ‘Fair Vote Project’ have suffered a humiliating legal defeat in the High Court in their attempts to force the Government to hold a “Mueller-style inquiry” into the EU referendum. The ‘Fair Vote Project’ was essentially set up as a front group for the so-called Brexit whistleblowers with the backing of the cranks at Byline and ultra-Remainers Best for Britain – the sole director, Kyle Taylor, was previously Field Campaigns Director for Best for Britain. Before that, Taylor was Simon Hughes’ chief of staff and agent in Bermondsey, where he campaigned alongside local Lib Dem Councillor Mark Gettleson. Gettleson is the lesser known of the three Brexit whistleblowers, but he was also a co-director of Chris Wylie’s dubious Cambridge Analytica spin-off and was heavily involved in their failed voter-targeting pitches to Donald Trump and Vote Leave. You almost need a Carole-style organogram to make sense of it all… The Administrative Court refused Fair Vote’s application for permission to bring in their loopy judicial review, instead ordering them to pay the Government’s legal costs of £19,214. Taylor and the ‘whistleblowers’ won’t be losing any sleep over the costs, they’ve already convinced naive members of the public to give them over £65,000 to blow on their spurious legal challenge. Incredibly, for once it wasn’t Jolyon throwing gullible Remainers’ cash away… More garbage from Remoaners! The People’s Vote campaign have been getting an absolute kicking overnight on the back of Alex Wickham’s big expose, following Guido’s report on the campaign infighting last month. Surprisingly, much of it is coming from the left, with Owen Jones leading the charge against it: “Whatever the rights and wrongs of a second referendum, the official People’s Vote is an absolute disaster, has undermined the case for another vote, and if there is one and they run the Remain campaign, we might as well chalk up a second Leave victory now” The New Statesman’s George Eaton also piled in with a quote from a ‘senior Labour insider’: “People’s Vote campaign has a worst of all worlds strategy. It’s fronted in the media by Blairites who are deeply unpopular with voters but knew how to win stuff. Its back room is run by Milibandites who are less elitist but don’t know how to win stuff.” Predictably, second referendum-backing MPs like Sarah Wollaston have been getting hilariously flustered by the criticism, with Steven Doughty even pinning it on a right-wing conspiracy. Including that well-known right-wing agitator Owen Jones… Second referendum campaigners are still in denial about three basic facts – firstly there isn’t a majority in Parliament for a second referendum, as significant numbersof Labour MPs will oppose one, secondly there isn’t a majority for a second referendum in the country, as Britian’s leading pollster John Curtice exposed yesterday. Thirdly, sending Tony Blair out as your spokesman on the slopes of Davos is not going to change the first two facts in your favour… Two unsavoury plonkers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Please remind me which female Prime Minister is famous for saying "Brexit means Brexit" and "No deal is better than a bad deal"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Had an interesting conversation last night with a gentleman at a Mark meeting. He was fairly adamant that we HAD to have another referendum. Whys that I asked , what was wrong with the first one ? We were LIED to, the bus , blah blah, we were promised a free trade deal, its all about racists and immigration blah ! So I said, the remainers didnt lie ? Not much, he replied. Anyway, we continued the convo over dinner, where it became apparent his main issue with Brexit, was his property in the Dordoyne , where he likes to spend his summers, was the real issue. 'I used to spend June to October there, now I can only spend 90 days before I have to come back' Whos told you that will be a result of Brexit I asked. Its been in all the papers he replied. Do you mean the Guardian and the Indy ? Yes. I said you do realise thats a Shengen rule NOW dont you ? 90 days in any 180 ? Nothing to do with Brexit at all, you should really apply for a short stay visa when you go for the summer. But we have free movement of people he replied, Brexit cancels that ! Obviously not that free, and no not really, you can still live and work in France, and you can still spend the summer there, you just need to apply and pay for a visa, just like you do now. Has anyone else heard of this 'new' 90 day rule 'coming in' after Brexit ? Not heard of that. These things are often complex and likely to get a lot worse. Agreements between countries are likely to vary together with tax treaty arrangements. Also UK advice is that each Country within the EU wil make it's own rules for treatment of UK nationals and residence arrangements. I am hoping to spend time sailing much of which will be in the med. I may well be resident in a number of countries in any one year. I know if i want to stay in Malta (or any other EU country) for more than 3 months as a winter stopover I will have to apply for residency. Where i stay will, post brexit, be dependent on the residency arrangements and the relevant tax treaty. I am also hoping that whatever agreements we end up with, that I do not have to continually drop into Immigration control on each border, as I sail back and forth between countries. My wife has an EU passport so looks like I might be queing / waiting for hours on my own. What will happen with emergency health cover (e111), the EU cross border healthcare directive and the S2 direct NHS funding route for treatment? No one knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, oowee said: am hoping to spend time sailing much of which will be in the med. I may well be resident in a number of countries in any one year. I know if i want to stay in Malta (or any other EU country) for more than 3 months as a winter stopover I will have to apply for residency. Where i stay will, post brexit, be dependent on the residency arrangements and the relevant tax treaty. I am also hoping that whatever agreements we end up with, that I do not have to continually drop into Immigration control on each border, as I sail back and forth between countries. My wife has an EU passport so looks like I might be queing / waiting for hours on my own. It all depends on what reciprocal 'deal' is done, do European citizens want to be waiting at our airports or ferry terminals to be processed by us? Who does this help ? The EU and elements within our own government will give you the worse case scenario possible, theres barely a day goes by without some news of how the stark cold landscape of Brexit will look. The reality is that for people like you, people who are going to spend money travelling, will be made as welcome as humanly possible by Europeans. Its OK saying each country will have its own visa system, but surely Brussels are employed to find a common system to work this out to EVERYONES benefit ? I would say that if the EU do not help with making transition smooth and trouble free, or worse still hinder or discriminate against UK nationals in travel/tourism , then they are not the organisation they claim to be. And yes , it will be yet another nail in their coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 A deal involves both sides reaching a mutually acceptable and beneficial arrangement, from what I've seen the EU have never genuinely negotiated and never tried to reach a mutually acceptable and beneficial arrangement?.....Just repeating the "deal" is the deal and cannot be changed, is rubbish, if there is a will to change it, it can be changed! They just don't choose to change it!........take it or leave it is not negotiating! Can someone please itemise precisely what the UK has gotten from the "negotiations" with the EU, in return for the £ billions the UK has offered the EU? Because I am unable to identify anything! If the EU want to make it hard for us, then we should make things harder for them, we haven't got anything to lose because we are getting nowt anyway! Never pick a fight with someone who has nothing to lose! On a different but connected issue.....Interesting JRM's suggestion what the government should do if the remainers wrest control of Brexit (by tabling amendments) from the government! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 "This is a dangerous fantasy. The idea that there's going to be a European air force, a European army, it is simply not true." Nick Clegg, 2 April 2014 https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/ https://www.cer.eu/insights/eu-army-four-reasons-it-will-not-happen https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46908205 Apparently we do need an EU army now , to counter the 'threat' of 'nationalism' This according to Macron, I think by nationalism, he means members of the European nations who dont do as they are told. Nations who stray from the path of one government , one state Europe. If you need any more persuasion of the insidious nature of the EU, and its ultimate aims, give yourself a smack round the head and wake up. Theyve already tried sending British troops out on joint ops with EU flags on. I cant wait till I see the people behind this jobless, and hopefully facing charges for their corruption, and manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, panoma1 said: On a different but connected issue.....Interesting JRM's suggestion what the government should do if the remainers wrest control of Brexit (by tabling amendments) from the government! Clearly getting worried now 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: Apparently we do need an EU army now , to counter the 'threat' of 'nationalism' No one ever believed a word Clegg said anyway. Man is a blithering idiot. The EU have always wanted and been mooting their own defence force, particularly the French who have always seen NATO as risky (even pulled out for a long period) because it is American dominated ........ but many European countries have never contributed much to NATO - which is a big irritation to Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, oowee said: Clearly getting worried now 🙂 Not really, well no more than options you would naturally consider, when someone is trying to steal from you! 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, panoma1 said: Not really, well no more than options you would naturally consider, when someone is trying to steal from you! 😎 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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