Brexit - merged threads

[Retsdon]

Anyway, no worries. Getting shot of the car industry was always part of the plan....

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1055730731211735040/pu/vid/640x360/BWANwP_NZ25TZVFR.mp4?tag=5

[hambone]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Yes, you could have shiploads of parts sitting around outside the factory gate, but the point of JIT is that the manufacturing sites do not store parts. This radically reduces costs at the manufacturing plants. The parts are held in a distribution centre, and then distributed to plants in line with their production schedules. So the Toyota distribution center in Belgium ships Europe wide.

 

That's all well and good but again back to my simplistic view of things...After the initial 6 week wait you could be ordering what you require weekly so not having to stockpile masses of parts. unless I am badly mistaken all cars of the same model would have the same number of the same parts 

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Anyway, no worries. Getting shot of the UK car industry was always part of the plan....

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1055730731211735040/pu/vid/640x360/BWANwP_NZ25TZVFR.mp4?tag=5

Altered that for you. 

[Newbie to this]

19 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But sometimes the bias is founded on reality and sometimes it's not. The problem for me is that the author of the piece you linked to clearly has no interest at all in checking his facts. He just pulled his assertion about Asian car manufacturers not being in free trade agreements out of thin air. A simple google search would have thrown ASEAN up at him. Now if he's that ignorant about simple global geography, and that lazy that he can't be bothered to check his facts -why on earth should anyone give credit to anything else he says at all? It's like JRM and his 6 week JiT supply line from Japan. It's unadulterated nonsense.In fact, it's so absurd that the the only plausible explanation is that JRM doesn't care that people know he's lying. What sort of people are these?

Now that you would have to take up with him, but I think you have taken his statement out of context, I think the single market and customs union he is talking about is the EU. He is stating that the Asian car manufacturers are not part of the EU but still operate from the outside. Again just my take on it, maybe you could email him and get it all cleared up.

[Retsdon]

But if you are Toyota - why bother? You have a Jit system in Asia. You have one  in North America. You have one in most of Europe. If the Uk can't fit into that system, surely it would be far simpler just to dismantle the plant and relocate. There, problem solved.

[oowee]

Nissan and others car plants only assemble. Outside there are suppliers putting the assemblies together on a JIT basis then each assembly is passed on in sequence for final assembly. It's like a manufacturing ballet. Each assembler on time penalties with tight slot times into the final assembly. 

Much face has been lost with the Japanese and this is not recoverable. 

[hambone]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But if you are Toyota - why bother? You have a Jit system in Asia. You have one  in North America. You have one in most of Europe. If the Uk can't fit into that system, surely it would be far simpler just to dismantle the plant and relocate. There, problem solved.

No problem agreeing with that statement but then why would you move (without EU grant) if the problems you were advocating are so easily(and cheaply) overcome

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Nissan and others car plants only assemble. Outside there are suppliers putting the assemblies together on a JIT basis then each assembly is passed on in sequence for final assembly. It's like a manufacturing ballet. Each assembler on time penalties with tight slot times into the final assembly. 

Much face has been lost with the Japanese and this is not recoverable. 

But it could be with some incentive (grants) free from the EU interference 

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, hambone said:

No problem agreeing with that statement but then why would you move (without EU grant) if the problems you were advocating are so easily(and cheaply) overcome

But it could be with some incentive (grants) free from the EU interference 

It's not so simple. When face is lost that is the end of the discussion. 

[pinfireman]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

😂 lol Moggy needs to read the tea leaves and take a project fear reality pill. Gate and bolted. Look at Honda and Nissan. Look at what is happening now in financial services. (13th jan)

Your not listening boys. 

NISSAN? You are listening to the bits you think endorse your beliefs, and ignoring everything else (no change there!) Nissan have said that the new X-Trail will not be made at Sunderland, as originally pledged in 2016.. This does NOT mean a loss of existing jobs, but stops a further expansion of the facility , for the time being! Reason given is "uncertainty" NOT BREXIT! And the uncertainty is the fact that the market for diesel cars, particularly SUVs, has shrunk since 2016, in part due to the Chinese economy slowing down, and in part due to the  public turning away from diesels due to emission problems, and the high cost of diesel.! Nissan are looking more to the hybrid, or electric market, as Toyota have done, and as HONDA have done! However, next you will be telling us you are an expert on  automotive matters!

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Outside there are suppliers putting the assemblies together on a JIT basis

That's true. It's an eye-opener how many automotive parts are actually made by  suppliers who supply  multiple car manufacturers. 

[pinfireman]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

"...Equally complex supply chains exist amongst Asian tiger economies and just-in-time delivery of component parts work effectively, without these economies being part of either a single market or a customs union.'

But they are part of a single market. It's called ASEAN, which is currently in the process of expanding into RCEP (regional comprehensive economic partnership) consisting of the original ASEAN countires plus Koriea, China, Japan, Austraila  India and New Zealand. It's a massive free trade area .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economic_Partnership . 

So how come your man doesn't know this?

 

 

But it is NOT a Customs union!

[Newbie to this]

@Retsdon 

I found his email if you want to correct him

d.blake@city.ac.uk

 

[pinfireman]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

😂 lol Moggy needs to read the tea leaves and take a project fear reality pill. Gate and bolted. Look at Honda and Nissan. Look at what is happening now in financial services. (13th jan)

Your not listening boys. 

Not to you.................

58 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

JRM on the World This Weekend reckoned that it's possible to run a JIT supply line direct from Japan! A six week shipping time is not an issue apparently. Meanwhile, in the real world the Burnaston Toyota plant takes delivery of 50 lorry loads of parts a day from Toyota's distribution centre in Belgium and the CEO says that were only 48 of them to get through, production wouldn't just  slow down - it would grind to a halt altogether..

But hey ho, what would he know about it. Probably just an agent for Project Fear anyway...

and that also hurts the Belgium factories, too.  But hey ho, they wont mind going bust, as their pals in the Commission will pay them .....Yeah, right!

[oowee]

1 minute ago, pinfireman said:

NISSAN? You are listening to the bits you think endorse your beliefs, and ignoring everything else (no change there!) Nissan have said that the new X-Trail will not be made at Sunderland, as originally pledged in 2016.. This does NOT mean a loss of existing jobs, but stops a further expansion of the facility , for the time being! Reason given is "uncertainty" NOT BREXIT! And the uncertainty is the fact that the market for diesel cars, particularly SUVs, has shrunk since 2016, in part due to the Chinese economy slowing down, and in part due to the  public turning away from diesels due to emission problems, and the high cost of diesel.! Nissan are looking more to the hybrid, or electric market, as Toyota have done, and as HONDA have done! However, next you will be telling us you are an expert on  automotive matters!

😂 

Still not listening. 

[pinfireman]

53 minutes ago, oowee said:

Sequential is the way of things now. I had an offer to work for Nissan, not that I know anything about car production.  lol great way to loose your pension I thought.

Cleaning their cars?

Just now, oowee said:

😂

Still not listening. 

I know you are not!...................pity!

45 minutes ago, hambone said:

I am obviously not in the same league as oowee and retsdon when it comes to world and trade affairs but to my simplistic take on things if you cannot get something from Belgium that comes in 50 lorries in a few days then you order the required 6 weeks in advance and have a shipload delivered on time (and probably cheaper). seemples 

and the smaller, high value parts you can fly in....but no need for that, the stuff from Belgium will still come through.........Can you really see the idiots in Brussels forcing the closure of Belgium manufacturing plants, just to make a point?

22 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But if you are Toyota - why bother? You have a Jit system in Asia. You have one  in North America. You have one in most of Europe. If the Uk can't fit into that system, surely it would be far simpler just to dismantle the plant and relocate. There, problem solved.

and lose a market? Not smart thinking, is it?

[pinfireman]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's not so simple. When face is lost that is the end of the discussion. 

It wasn,t after 1945 ?

[Retsdon]

6 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

and lose a market? Not smart thinking, is it?

People will still need to buy cars regardless of where they're assembled. 

[hambone]

1 minute ago, pinfireman said:

It wasn,t after 1945 ?

😂😂😂

[hambone]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

People will still need to buy cars regardless of where they're assembled. 

People also have long memories. I still do not buy French wine or apples because of French farmers dumping Welsh lamb into a harbour and i don't buy Argentinian beef because of the Falkland conflict. I do not think I am alone in my attitude and would expect a backlash from the UK population if the EU tried to punish us for using our freedom of choice and voting to leave.

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, hambone said:

People also have long memories. I still do not buy French wine or apples because of French farmers dumping Welsh lamb into a harbour and i don't buy Argentinian beef because of the Falkland conflict. I do not think I am alone in my attitude and would expect a backlash from the UK population if the EU tried to punish us for using our freedom of choice and voting to leave.

They are aready doing that by not negotiating and telling May what she can and cant have, her deal that they created puts us in deeper and worse off... 

[Vince Green]

Nissan drawing SUV manufacturing back to Japan has absolutely nothing at all to do with Brexit, its a war that is being fought in the Pacific rim

Nissan has lost 14% of its global market already to the "exploding" global threat from Chinese car manufacturers and don't imagine that this is a problem that is going to go away or that it only affects NISSAN. The panic in Japan is blindingly obvious.

China is really feeling its feet now and is set to make massive inroads into many industries, cars just being one, but a big one. Why do you think Trump has been getting so excited about putting trade restrictions on China .

This is a trade war China is going to win and everybody knows it.

One of 99 reasons why we need to get out of the EU, the EU will resort to pathetic protectionism to try and resist the threat from China, as will the US,  both will fail miserably.

On our own we can deal with China. We will not be able to resist them but we wont be damaged by a trade war.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Vince Green

[Retsdon]

7 hours ago, hambone said:

if the EU tried to punish us for using our freedom of choice and voting to leave.

Nobody is punishing anybody. Britain chose to leave the EU, and then May chose to leave the single market. It's Britain that is choosing to adopt third country status vis a vis the EU, not the other way around. As Sabine Weyand said in her recent speech, the May deal that Parliament rejected had been, after long hours of negotiation, thrashed out around British 'red lines'. But of course, nobody here actually bothers to read or listen to what the EU has to say, which seems a  bit odd when you think about it. In negotiations it's generally considered a good idea to know. what the other side wants and  is thinking, and even in all out war the maxim 'know your enemy' has been around for millennia.

But seemingly not for hardline British Brexiters. They just build a shadowy bogie man across the channel that can be used to dump all the ills of the world on, and to whom can be attributed all kinds of malice. That might have been an understandable campaigning tactic during the Referendum campaign, but it's an extremely dangerous thing to do when hard political and economic facts come knocking. History is absolutely littered with catastrophic failures caused by people falling prey to their own propaganda.

[ShootingEgg]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Nobody is punishing anybody. Britain chose to leave the EU, and then May chose to leave the single market. It's Britain that is choosing to adopt third country status vis a vis the EU, not the other way around. As Sabine Weyand said in her recent speech, the May deal that Parliament rejected had been, after long hours of negotiation, thrashed out around British 'red lines'. But of course, nobody here actually bothers to read or listen to what the EU has to say, which seems a  bit odd when you think about it. In negotiations it's generally considered a good idea to know. what the other side wants and  is thinking, and even in all out war the maxim 'know your enemy' has been around for millennia.

But seemingly not for hardline British Brexiters. They just build a shadowy bogie man across the channel that can be used to dump all the ills of the world on, and to whom can be attributed all kinds of malice. That might have been an understandable campaigning tactic during the Referendum campaign, but it's an extremely dangerous thing to do when hard political and economic facts come knocking. History is absolutely littered with catastrophic failures caused by people falling prey to their own propaganda.

Leaving the eu would mean leaving the single market even the eu say that.. I cant quit the gym but still use the cross trainer but nothing else, cant end a golf club membership but still play the 9 hole for free. 

Why is it people think we can leave but keep bits.. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

I cant quit the gym but still use the cross trainer but nothing else, cant end a golf club membership but still play the 9 hole for free.

But you can talk to the gym management, say you are leaving, and ask to for a 'transition deal' use the cross trainer for 21 months ......... for which they will be paid (£39 billion) - and will talk about a long term agreement for possible use of things after that 21 months.

They say yes OK, BUT we won't talk to you about anything long term after after the 21 months until you sign up to pay the (£39 billion) for the 21 months - and also agree that IF THEY don't like what you propose for long term after 21 months ........ you must continue to pay the (£39 billion) but pro rate (maybe per month/year) until they say you can fully leave and stop paying (it's called a backstop).

You would not (I imagine) sign up for that deal.

Edited February 4, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[ShootingEgg]

31 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

But you can talk to the gym management, say you are leaving, and ask to for a 'transition deal' use the cross trainer for 21 months ......... for which they will be paid (£39 billion) - and will talk about a long term agreement for possible use of things after that 21 months.

They say yes OK, BUT we won't talk to you about anything long term after after the 21 months until you sign up to pay the (£39 billion) for the 21 months - and also agree that IF THEY don't like what you propose for long term after 21 months ........ you must continue to pay the (£39 billion) but pro rate (maybe per month/year) until they say you can fully leave and stop paying (it's called a backstop).

You would not (I imagine) sign up for that deal.

Lets be honest, no one in their right mind would!! And it really confuses me as to why people who want to remain still dont see the eu for what it is.

Edited February 4, 2019 by ShootingEgg

[panoma1]

4 hours ago, Retsdon said:

 

But seemingly not for hardline British Brexiters. They just build a shadowy bogie man across the channel that can be used to dump all the ills of the world on, and to whom can be attributed all kinds of malice. That might have been an understandable campaigning tactic during the Referendum campaign, but it's an extremely dangerous thing to do when hard political and economic facts come knocking. History is absolutely littered with catastrophic failures caused by people falling prey to their own propaganda.

But isn't that exactly what the EU and remainers have been doing all along?