TriBsa Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: Most of the A team know there are no winners in Brexit so they stepped back, what we are seeing is the effect of the fact that there are already two many B team involved. Think it can’t get worse? Think again! A Team? Is that the Approved Team of MP's selected from the party's Approved List of Candidates? Where they are all vetted for their PC, Globalist and Pro EU views (with extra points for minorities and women) and then parachuted into a constituency that they have no ties with. It's time that local people took back control of whom they send to parliament to represent them and their views. Edited March 30, 2019 by TriBsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, Rewulf said: 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: Most of the A team know there are no winners in Brexit so they stepped back In that case , why did they vote in massive majority to trigger A 50, surely these bastions of public integrity should have refused ? Quite! Until the government adduced a workable plan rather than a wish list, Parliament should have sent it back to the drawing board. But everyone was playing internal party politics instead of doing their job. So here we are - a complete and utter shambles with the country due to be kicked out of the EU in two weeks time, totally unprepared and with a vacuum at the centre of government. Macron decides Britain's future - that wasn't on the manifesto... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Quite! Until the government adduced a workable plan rather than a wish list, Parliament should have sent it back to the drawing board. But everyone was playing internal party politics instead of doing their job. So here we are - a complete and utter shambles with the country due to be kicked out of the EU in two weeks time, totally unprepared and with a vacuum at the centre of government. Macron decides Britain's future - that wasn't on the manifesto... Let's hope Macron does our politicians job for them and forces a "hard" brexit, it'll be music to the ears of everyone who voted for brexit and will honour the referendum result 🙏👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Quite! Until the government adduced a workable plan rather than a wish list, Parliament should have sent it back to the drawing board. But everyone was playing internal party politics instead of doing their job. So here we are - a complete and utter shambles with the country due to be kicked out of the EU in two weeks time, totally unprepared and with a vacuum at the centre of government. Macron decides Britain's future - that wasn't on the manifesto... agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said: Let's hope Macron does our politicians job for them and forces a "hard" brexit, it'll be music to the ears of everyone who voted for brexit and will honour the referendum result 🙏👍 Much as I like the idea, I strongly suggest he will not do what he has said he will do! We really are up **** creek without a paddle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Let's hope Macron does our politicians job for them and forces a "hard" brexit, it'll be music to the ears of everyone who voted for brexit and will honour the referendum result 🙏👍 It wasn't what everyone who voted leave wants. Forty years of campaigning to leave and they couldn't put credible people forward to deliver it so they had to rely on mainstream politicians. The biggest problem with Leave is that there is no real consensus on what it means, that is apparent from parliament. But no instead we have all been faced with this interminable nonsense and now Leavers are pointing the finger at everyone else. Sorry but one of my key takes from the Brexit process is highlighting that we have far bigger problems than being in the EU, the leave vote is symptomatic of the problem but the EU isn't really the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It wasn't what everyone who voted leave wants. Forty years of campaigning to leave and they couldn't put credible people forward to deliver it so they had to rely on mainstream politicians. The biggest problem with Leave is that there is no real consensus on what it means, that is apparent from parliament. But no instead we have all been faced with this interminable nonsense and now Leavers are pointing the finger at everyone else. Sorry but one of my key takes from the Brexit process is highlighting that we have far bigger problems than being in the EU, the leave vote is symptomatic of the problem but the EU isn't really the problem. I agree with your last paragraph and problem number one is politicians who won't do what the people have instructed them to do via referendum. As for not knowing what we voted for, it couldn't be clearer, if you leave a club it means you leave that club and its rules, you don't then make a new club with virtually the same rules, that's just a play on words or BRINO. Watch the video that was posted on here yesterday and tell me again that we didn't know what we voted for, despite all the warnings, most of which have a lready been disproven. If anything, we didn't know what we voted for in the original referendum, we joined the common market with 7 other similar nations, nothing about EU Court supremacy, free movement of people ect and a official secrets act was placed on the truth which didn't emerge for 50 years, so by that reasoning we should have left years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: As for not knowing what we voted for, it couldn't be clearer, if you leave a club it means you leave that club and its rules, you don't then make a new club with virtually the same rules, that's just a play on words or BRINO. Watch the video that was posted on here yesterday and tell me again that we didn't know what we voted for, despite all the warnings, most of which have a lready been disproven. If anything, we didn't know what we voted for in the original referendum, we joined the common market with 7 other similar nations, nothing about EU Court supremacy, free movement of people ect and a official secrets act was placed on the truth which didn't emerge for 50 years, so by that reasoning we should have left years ago. I’m not saying that individually you didn’t know what you’re voting for but it appears you can’t agree collectively. i watched two vids on here yesterday which one are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 39 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It wasn't what everyone who voted leave wants. Forty years of campaigning to leave and they couldn't put credible people forward to deliver it so they had to rely on mainstream politicians. The biggest problem with Leave is that there is no real consensus on what it means, that is apparent from parliament. But no instead we have all been faced with this interminable nonsense and now Leavers are pointing the finger at everyone else. Sorry but one of my key takes from the Brexit process is highlighting that we have far bigger problems than being in the EU, the leave vote is symptomatic of the problem but the EU isn't really the problem. Put it to the people.......Two options.......Mays "deal" or no deal....that we are leaving is not relevant as that has already been decided.....we will then find out how many of the electorate favour leaving without a "deal"!.....and the cowardly, self serving ******** at Westminster can then blame the people for whatever happens next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I’m not saying that individually you didn’t know what you’re voting for but it appears you can’t agree collectively. i watched two vids on here yesterday which one are you referring to? Its not about agreeing collectively, David Cameron, the official leave side along with countless others made perfectly clear that a vote to leave would mean leaving the customs Union, the single market, ending EU Court supremacy along with all the other core EU rules, the video is a compilation of the broken promises by politicians. 18 hours ago, das said: Lies? This one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 56 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: it'll be music to the ears of everyone who voted for brexit Not true. It'll be music to the ears of some people who voted Brexit. For those who believed what they were told - extra money, a straightforward trade deal with the EU, an orderly transition, etc it won't be music. It will be a realization that they've been had. 57 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: the leave vote is symptomatic of the problem but the EU isn't really the problem. Exactly. And my guess is that post-Brexit will be even more bitter and divisive. Revolutions devour their children as the saying goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Not true. It'll be music to the ears of some people who voted Brexit. For those who believed what they were told - extra money, a straightforward trade deal with the EU, an orderly transition, etc it won't be music. It will be a realization that they've been had. Exactly. And my guess is that post-Brexit will be even more bitter and divisive. Revolutions devour their children as the saying goes. I asked on here earlier if there was anyone who voted leave and didn't fully expect or wouldn't be happy with what is now called a "hard" brexit, hardly scientific but there is a lot of leave supporters on here and yet not one person replied, make of that what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 I see the guy that has caused chaos and bought Eurostar to a halt by cimbing onto the roof of St Pancras station, has draped himself in a flag of St George!......is this a sign of frustration and maybe the start of a campaign of civil disobedience and direct action by ordinary people, in response to the MP's in Westminsters cynical attack on democracy by their deliberate attempts to frustrate/stop Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, panoma1 said: I see the guy that has caused chaos and bought Eurostar to a halt by cimbing onto the roof of St Pancras station, has draped himself in a flag of St George!......is this a sign of frustration and maybe the start of a campaign of civil disobedience and direct action by ordinary people, in response to the MP's in Westminsters cynical attack on democracy by their deliberate attempts to frustrate/stop Brexit? Possibly and who could blame them for being so fed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, panoma1 said: I see the guy that has caused chaos and bought Eurostar to a halt by cimbing onto the roof of St Pancras station, has draped himself in a flag of St George!......is this a sign of frustration and maybe the start of a campaign of civil disobedience and direct action by ordinary people, in response to the MP's in Westminsters cynical attack on democracy by their deliberate attempts to frustrate/stop Brexit? Let’s hope so!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Retsdon said: Macron decides Britain's future - that wasn't on the manifesto... It was always blindingly obvious that any 'deal' on leave would have big EU bully tactics ........... but had we fought our side correctly, then there should be a fair deal to be had. We didn't and we threw away our best card (no deal) due to idiots in Parliament who don't understand business negotiations (at least I presume that is why they did it). We should have been clearly and even ostentatiously preparing for a 'no deal' to keep the pressure on. As it stands - we have only one deal on the table and a it's by popular agreement, a 'bad deal' - so as we were clearly told - NO DEAL IS BETTER THAN A BAD DEAL. So no deal it should be .......... except for the idiots in Parliament who won't 'allow' that, and the idiots in government who haven't prepared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Put it to the people.......Two options.......Mays "deal" or no deal The trouble is - and we all know - those will not be the (only) two options. They have learned their lesson. Last time they asked a clear straight question - Do you wish to Remain or Leave? They got a clear answer - Leave. That wasn't the answer they thought they would get - and it has been wriggled around ever since. Next time (if there is one) they ask the a question - you can bet then way the question is asked will be so loaded they are virtually guaranteed the answer they want. The obvious way that I expect this will happen is to have a leave on May's deal - or revoke Article 50 and remain in as now. Leave on no deal may be added in to ensure the leave vote is split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The trouble is - and we all know - those will not be the (only) two options. They have learned their lesson. Last time they asked a clear straight question - Do you wish to Remain or Leave? They got a clear answer - Leave. That wasn't the answer they thought they would get - and it has been wriggled around ever since. Next time (if there is one) they ask the a question - you can bet then way the question is asked will be so loaded they are virtually guaranteed the answer they want. The obvious way that I expect this will happen is to have a leave on May's deal - or revoke Article 50 and remain in as now. Leave on no deal may be added in to ensure the leave vote is split. Spot on, it stinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The trouble is - and we all know - those will not be the (only) two options. They have learned their lesson. Last time they asked a clear straight question - Do you wish to Remain or Leave? They got a clear answer - Leave. That wasn't the answer they thought they would get - and it has been wriggled around ever since. Next time (if there is one) they ask the a question - you can bet then way the question is asked will be so loaded they are virtually guaranteed the answer they want. The obvious way that I expect this will happen is to have a leave on May's deal - or revoke Article 50 and remain in as now. Leave on no deal may be added in to ensure the leave vote is split. Those are the only two options, if Parliament really want to deliver Brexit.......any other questions on the ballot paper would be undemocratic and irrelevant as they can only be included for the purpose of overturning the democratic decision of the electorate....as per the referendum result......to Exit the EU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Those are the only two options, if Parliament really want to deliver Brexit.......any other questions on the ballot paper would be undemocratic and irrelevant as they can only be included for the purpose of overturning the democratic decision of the electorate....as per the referendum result......to Exit the EU! Now don't hold your breath and expect them to do the decent thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: They have learned their lesson. And that would be a very good thing. All the Brexit furore is because the country bought a pig in a poke. Nobody knew what was in the sack. Now the sack had been opened the creature has apparently turned out to be some kind of many-headed relative of Hydra, which nobody can actually control and which has a penchant for smashing and devouring political institutions. Doubtless economic ones will be next on the menu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spr1985 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 I was travelling home from work Friday evening and took three hours to get from Chelsea to Canary Wharf area, all due to brexit demonstrations, roads blocked by police, roads blocked by trawlers on the back of an hgv, roads blocked by coaches from different European countries and double decors adorned with ******** to brexit slogans protesters everywhere and more police and ambulance personnel than I’ve ever seen before riot vans helicopters dog units the works hopefully the politicians will pull their fingers out and get their jobs done sooner rather than later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: so as we were clearly told - NO DEAL IS BETTER THAN A BAD DEAL. As Ivan Rogers observed, there's an old maxim that you campaign in poetry but govern in prose. And now that the chickens are airborne what sounded good 2 years ago is not necessarily practicable when the stuff actually hits the fan. (Sorry for the mixed metaphors) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Chickens have an extremely limited flight envelope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Retsdon said: And that would be a very good thing. All the Brexit furore is because the country bought a pig in a poke. Nobody knew what was in the sack. Now the sack had been opened the creature has apparently turned out to be some kind of many-headed relative of Hydra, which nobody can actually control and which has a penchant for smashing and devouring political institutions. Doubtless economic ones will be next on the menu. You keep suggesting people didn't know what they voted for, but they did, they may not have know the finer points of how to remove the UK from the EU, but that wasn't the question, it was do you want to leave or remain, simple as that. They now need to deliver it, not "soft" brexit, not another referendum, but leave. Its simple, but trying to be made complex by those who are trying to keep us in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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