Brexit - merged threads

[Raja Clavata]

10 minutes ago, Cantrem ember said:

You really do want it all to go horribly wrong, don't you?

Nope. 

[Rewulf]

[Raja Clavata]

16 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

We live in exciting times .
But are not the predictions of Brexit doom the exact same thing ?

Time will tell, but at least we will find out whether we were right or wrong, rather than never knowing at all ?

Carpe Diem ? 

 

I’m not even certain of that to be honest, at face value yes there is the leave or remain scenario but there’s potentially a state of interminable transition where we are held in suspension indefinitely.

But it’s ok because that’s what the majority voted for and the views of the slim minority don’t matter.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man and all that but let’s not forget it’s Boris we are talking about here. BTW I hear his new nickname is Stuart...

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

But it’s ok because that’s what the majority voted for and the views of the slim minority don’t matter.

Ive lived under various governments and councils I didnt vote for,  its terrible , bordering on modern day slavery , undemocratic blah blah...🤣

 

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Cometh the hour, cometh the man and all that but let’s not forget it’s Boris we are talking about here. BTW I hear his new nickname is Stuart...

I hear its something else.. and as Ive said , I didnt like him, he has since gone up in my estimations .
So yes cometh the hour ,cometh the man ..

[Raja Clavata]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Ive lived under various governments and councils I didnt vote for,  its terrible , bordering on modern day slavery , undemocratic blah blah...🤣

 

I like your analogy as it implies after 4 years we can vote to overturn the previous decision (mistake) and decide to stay after all. Since nothing changes much between GE’s the analogy holds further with Brexit.🤪

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

The ineptitude of those charged with conducting the Brexit process. I say that I don't care, but really I do. I have family in the UK, and for better or worse its my country., Not to mention that at some point I have a state pension coming and it would be a bit of a pest if it turns out to be worthless. And from everything I've read and gleaned, not from Remain biased media but mostly from original sources  or specialists in international trade, the current path that  the country is on is almost certainly catastrophic.  As a I've pointed out before, in normal circumstances when a plan doesn't work you revert to the status quo ante. Nothing gained but nothing lost either. That means, at the very least, acceptance of May's Agreement which would have allowed some kind of breathing space outside the Single Market of the EU. Instead we have a government that's driven purely by domestic political considerations and which is not the least concerned with anything other than remaining in power for another 5 years and they're prepared to drive the country clean over the cliff to do it. From what I can see they're nothing but a gang of spivs and chancers, without a shred of integrity amongst them. They'e going to ruin the country.

True. But on the other hand.....  how many people in the UK would want to see their  domestic job market thrown open to global competition? Immigrants with lower wage standards was one of the drivers of Brexit. People wanted their own market (their jobs) protected from 'unfair'  and 'substandard' competition. These things are all in the eye of the beholder.

Can you define or elaborate on what you mean by  ‘catastrophic’ or ‘almost certainly catastrophic’ as regards us leaving without a deal? 

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I like your analogy as it implies after 4 years we can vote to overturn the previous decision

I wouldn't argue with that. 

If the people voted for it, I would support it. 

[das]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

The got it wrongs , are all about things that were predicted post Ref. and never happened, you are predicting thing post Brexit that may or may not happen.
All im saying , is the judgement and forcasting of remainers is found to be somewhat..dire.

 

Of course I will, from my windswept tent in the UN safe zone, north of the devastated areas of what was once the UK 

Ill be honest with you, from the way this has been handled by our government, the meddling of foreign influencers, and the remain bias of most of the media, never mind the propaganda of the EU , Im surprised we are where we are, many times I thought A50 would get revoked.
Do you know why it wasnt ??

Because the majority of the people of this country, and a small group of politicians who actually wanted to enact that majorities wishes, wanted it , and wouldnt be deterred.
Because to have cancelled Brexit against those wishes would have been such an undemocratic act of political dishonesty, this country would never have been the same again.
So thats one disaster averted , on to the next 😄

Brilliant, I agree entirely👍👍

[Scully]

45 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I wouldn't argue with that. 

If the people voted for it, I would support it. 

Me too. 👍

[Raja Clavata]

58 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I wouldn't argue with that. 

If the people voted for it, I would support it. 

So if the people voted for a Corbyn government you’d support that too?

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

Me too. 👍

Roll on 23rd June 2020🤪

[Scully]

49 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So if the people voted for a Corbyn government you’d support that too?

Roll on 23rd June 2020🤪

We just have to implement the result of the referendum first, and leave the EU. If people want to lobby to rejoin after that, then that’s up to them. 

[Raja Clavata]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

We just have to implement the result of the referendum first, and leave the EU. If people want to lobby to rejoin after that, then that’s up to them. 

We vote in GEs on a manifesto that is never delivered, why is the Brexit vote so sacred and fundamentally different?

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

We vote in GEs on a manifesto that is never delivered, why is the Brexit vote so sacred and fundamentally different?

That’s ridiculous; only the naive vote on a GE manifesto! 

[Raja Clavata]

13 minutes ago, Scully said:

That’s ridiculous; only the naive vote on a GE manifesto! 

And the false promises of Brexiteers, promising the world and so far delivering zilch.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

So if the people voted for a Corbyn government you’d support that too?

🤪

I didn't realise you couldn't? 

If that's what people want, then that's what WE get, it's the system, you either live by the system, work with it and support it, or drop off the grid, walk away from society or stop working/paying taxes and sponge. 

Those are the options. 

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

And the false promises of Brexiteers, promising the world and so far delivering zilch.

Errr, deliver Brexit, then we'll see who delivers? 

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I didn't realise you couldn't? 

If that's what people want, then that's what WE get, it's the system, you either live by the system, work with it and support it, or drop off the grid, walk away from society or stop working/paying taxes and sponge. 

Those are the options. 

Errr, deliver Brexit, then we'll see who delivers? 

Answer the question on Corbyn.

Parse error in your last comment, care to try again?

[Rewulf]

28 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Answer the question on Corbyn.

Parse error in your last comment, care to try again?

Thought I did, yes I would support a Corbyn government, how can you not, without, as I said, dropping out? 

As much as I don't like the idea of it, it's inescapable, you don't like the idea of a UK outside the EU, but you're going to have to live with it. 

Uess you have another option? 

[Scully]

9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

And the false promises of Brexiteers, promising the world and so far delivering zilch.

I didn’t vote on the promises, false or otherwise, of Brexiteers; I voted to leave because we were given the choice, nothing more. 

I’m not really sure how anyone can judge whether anything has been delivered or not, until the result of that vote has been implemented, and that hasn’t happened due entirely to those who didn’t expect us to vote to leave, and have actively plotted to thwart that implementation as a result. 

We don’t have a GE and then **** about for the next three years trying to stall and overturn the result. The result is implemented and THEN people campaign to have it overturned. But with the referendum it seems there are many who find it totally acceptable to try to overturn the democratically arrived result before it is enacted. Weird eh! 🙂

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Scully said:

I didn’t vote on the promises,

Talking of promises, Gina Miller was interviewed on Radio 4 this morning.  The background was that yesterday Lord Sumption (former top High Court Judge) had stated in his legal opinion that there was effectively no way Johnson and his Government could be forced out before 31st October.

Miller claims they have a way round this (apparently in Erskine May Parliamentary manual para 1972 I think it was) and are preparing a Judicial Review which will enable them to oust Johnson and replace him with a 'caretaker government of unity who will stop leaving on 31st October.

Who has the law on their side?  No one seems to know and there are (it seems) lawyers who are prepared to take huge fees and get very rich playing games with all of our futures based on vague and it seems totally inadequate law (mainly the 'fixed term Parliament Act which of course is quite recent).

The worry is that last time Miller tried this - she won and is pretty much wholly responsible for the current mess.

It seems we now may have all of our futures in the hands of someone who is not only unelected, but (as far as I know has never stood for office) and has some very hidden and shady sources of funding (who are no doubt pulling the strings).

[Capt Christopher Jones]

13 hours ago, Scully said:

Can you define or elaborate on what you mean by  ‘catastrophic’ or ‘almost certainly catastrophic’ as regards us leaving without a deal? 

Food is going to go up in the No Deal 

The UK food industry has asked the government to waive aspects of competition law to allow firms to coordinate and direct supplies with each other after a no-deal Brexit.

The Food and Drink Federation (FDF) said it repeatedly asked ministers for clarity on a no-deal scenario.

Existing rules prohibit suppliers and retailers discussing supply or pricing.

The industry says leaving in the autumn could pose more supply problems than the original Brexit date last March.

The FDF, which represents a wide range of food companies and trade associations, said: "We asked for these reassurances at the end of last year. But we're still waiting."

The boss of one leading retailer told the BBC: "At the extreme, people like me and people from government will have to decide where lorries go to keep food supply chain going. And in that scenario we'd have to work with competitors, and the government would have to suspend competition laws".

 

13 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Ive lived under various governments and councils I didnt vote for,  its terrible , bordering on modern day slavery , undemocratic blah blah...🤣

 

I hear its something else.. and as Ive said , I didnt like him, he has since gone up in my estimations .
So yes cometh the hour ,cometh the man ..

Ah a French invention i see 

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Thought I did, yes I would support a Corbyn government, how can you not, without, as I said, dropping out? 

As much as I don't like the idea of it, it's inescapable, you don't like the idea of a UK outside the EU, but you're going to have to live with it. 

Uess you have another option? 

Fair enough.

Regarding other options, weighing up a new contract offer which includes an apartment in Valbonne 😁

[Scully]

45 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

Food is going to go up in the No Deal 

The UK food industry has asked the government to waive aspects of competition law to allow firms to coordinate and direct supplies with each other after a no-deal Brexit.

The Food and Drink Federation (FDF) said it repeatedly asked ministers for clarity on a no-deal scenario.

Existing rules prohibit suppliers and retailers discussing supply or pricing.

The industry says leaving in the autumn could pose more supply problems than the original Brexit date last March.

The FDF, which represents a wide range of food companies and trade associations, said: "We asked for these reassurances at the end of last year. But we're still waiting."

The boss of one leading retailer told the BBC: "At the extreme, people like me and people from government will have to decide where lorries go to keep food supply chain going. And in that scenario we'd have to work with competitors, and the government would have to suspend competition laws".

 

Ah a French invention i see 

And that’s your definition of catastrophe is it? I’d still like the OP to reply, to see why his definition is. 

[SpringDon]

48 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

Food is going to go up in the No Deal 

The UK food industry has asked the government to waive aspects of competition law to allow firms to coordinate and direct supplies with each other after a no-deal Brexit.

The Food and Drink Federation (FDF) said it repeatedly asked ministers for clarity on a no-deal scenario.

Existing rules prohibit suppliers and retailers discussing supply or pricing.

The industry says leaving in the autumn could pose more supply problems than the original Brexit date last March.

The FDF, which represents a wide range of food companies and trade associations, said: "We asked for these reassurances at the end of last year. But we're still waiting."

The boss of one leading retailer told the BBC: "At the extreme, people like me and people from government will have to decide where lorries go to keep food supply chain going. And in that scenario we'd have to work with competitors, and the government would have to suspend competition laws".

 

I’m unconvinced. Such a collaboration between retailers is more likely to be about maintaining their margins. Food prices should fall after the removal of tariffs not rise. Unless we are saying that food producers would not be allowed to sell to us?

The only recent example i can think of is when South Sudan was created. Were exporters banned from selling to them because no agreements were in place? (No, in case you were wondering)

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Project Fear part 5 ?

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

I’m unconvinced. Such a collaboration between retailers is more likely to be about maintaining their margins

There is a lot of Project Food Fear going on.  Today on the radio there was an interview with Lord Haskins, former chairman of Northern Foods who was saying there may well be severe shortages leading possibly to 'some form of public control' of the food supply, possibly rationing.

What the BBC (typically) didn't tell you was that he was a former Labour supporter (now I believe LibDem, though sits as a 'cross bench' peer), and advisor (foot and mouth times) to Blair - and got his peerage from Blair.

A more realistic view was put by someone else (not sure who it was) who said;

The same amount of food will be grown, processed and packed.  Distribution and transport mechanisms will all still be in place.  Retailers and wholesalers will still be there and anxious to do business.

IF there are any short term supply issues (and he accepted there might be some) - they will probably be caused by hoarding due to stirring by Project Fear and/or political interference in the pipelines (holding things at ports).  He stressed that there is NO SHORTAGE of raw products, transport, distribution or resale space, but perishables are easily disrupted by either hoarding or delay for political reasons.