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Opening chokes


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3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

(I hope all this is of help to Rob)

Out of interest, what do you intend to shoot with the steel?

The same as I do now high pheasant and at range pigeon 

CEB7A53E-418F-4B07-9535-9364CDAFAD69.jpeg

9 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

Regarding the original post there’s been a lot of debate over steel shot regarding chokes barrels etc I HAVE USED a aya no3 magnum made 1979 for Years with steel shot plastic wads With no ill effects on both barrels 

I also use a aya but not magnum or 3 inch aya 56 made in about 1947

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10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well if it all goes wrong you could always hacksaw off the offending choked portion and start robbing banks.:good::w00t:

Do they still have money in them? 😚

well more than the gun was worth 🤭

Apologies to the OP sorry it’s gone a bit off track 😊👍👍

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My last fiddle before I'm let loose back in the world tomorrow. With nothing better to do, I had a play and it just so happened that No 5 lead worked out nicely if you take into account both cock and hen pheasant. If you want to match the load weight of 32g of lead that I used and use the biggest standard steel shot size, you can actually match the lead maximum effective range if you do indeed use Full choke. This is all theoretical so a small pinch of salt may be needed.

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3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

My last fiddle before I'm let loose back in the world tomorrow. With nothing better to do, I had a play and it just so happened that No 5 lead worked out nicely if you take into account both cock and hen pheasant. If you want to match the load weight of 32g of lead that I used and use the biggest standard steel shot size, you can actually match the lead maximum effective range if you do indeed use Full choke. This is all theoretical so a small pinch of salt may be needed.

You’re going to struggle to get 32 grams of steel into a 2..3/4 case 

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1 hour ago, wymberley said:

How about as lead gets distorted more that steel in its journey down the barrel this now non too perfect ballistically speaking chunk of metal does not fly as true as steel for some 40 odd yards so increasingly spreads itself about a big tad more.

Could be? 🤷‍♂️
I have no idea what the increase in spread is through the same choke at the same distance with an equivalent load, but it makes sense to me. 

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32 minutes ago, Scully said:

Could be? 🤷‍♂️
I have no idea what the increase in spread is through the same choke at the same distance with an equivalent load, but it makes sense to me. 

Scully,

I think I may have accidentally deleted something as the post that yours referred to ended:

"whether it's distorted by the barrel walls while sitting on top of a fibre wad or crushed inside a monowad while being forced through the choke."

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Just now, wymberley said:

Scully,

I think I may have accidentally deleted something as the post that yours referred to ended:

"whether it's distorted by the barrel walls while sitting on top of a fibre wad or crushed inside a monowad while being forced through the choke."

Don’t worry about it. 🙂👍

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On 31/03/2021 at 18:10, Old farrier said:

You’re going to struggle to get 32 grams of steel into a 2..3/4 case 

Not sure if this is relevant but I've been shooting crows today with Gamebore super steel, 32g No. 5 in a 70mm or "2 3/4" case. My Baikal SxS is choked 1/2 and full. Only a problem for the crows !

Edited by Velocette
Correction
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2 hours ago, Old farrier said:

But I’m not using plastic wads !!!!

Sorry, I didn't realise you were reloading. 

if ? 
it’s down to the plastic wad only  why does everyone say you can’t shoot it through a full choke

The plastic 'cup' prevents the steel shot scoring the insides of the barrels; that's it's only purpose. As for folk saying you can't shoot steel through full choke, it is claimed it is due to steel not compressing to the same extent as lead, although you would assume the same applied to standard steel shot also, but it is stated it is ok to shoot standard steel through any choke, and the full choke claim or anything tighter than half, only applies to HP steel through non steel shot proofed shotguns. I'm assuming that's cleared that up? 😀 As for my own experience, I have shot HP steel through a fixed 3/4 choked non steel shot proofed shotgun, with nothing more to report than it being a tad punchy. 

 

but I don’t want a 1/4 choke pattern it’s not advisable to fire steel shot without any barrel protection hence the shot cup or biowads I understand that, it was only meant as an example. 

to be honest you would be more credible to say you don’t know as opposed to supposition and guesswork 

Fair enough, I was simply trying to help.

the fact is no one has done the research Then why are you asking?

logic dosent come into this it’s scientific fact that is required 

so I ask again 

how much do I need to remove from the extra full choke bored for lead to make it safe to shoot a full choke pattern with steel ? I have no idea, no one has done the research. 🙂

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Velocette said:

Not sure if this is relevant but I've been shooting crows today with Gamebore super steel, 32g No. 5 in a 70mm or " 3/4" case. My Baikal SxS is choked 1/2 and full. Only a problem for the crows !

There is this, which is more inline with how I do things. I also shoot (amongst others) Gamebore Supersteel 32g 4's through my non steel shot proofed guns. Like the above, I just get on with it. 

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44 minutes ago, Velocette said:

Not sure if this is relevant but I've been shooting crows today with Gamebore super steel, 32g No. 5 in a 70mm or " 3/4" case. My Baikal SxS is choked 1/2 and full. Only a problem for the crows !

Plastic or biowads?

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5 hours ago, Scully said:

Did Teague insist on reproof following the work? 

Hi, reproofing is only needed if the forcing cones are altered in any way, if the chambers are re-sleeved or if thin walled multi-chokes are engineered into the barrel. For a fixed choke modification such as reaming and honing, luckily reproofing is not required.

In my correspondence with Teague, they did offer to steel proof certify my gun. I don't need this as it is Nitro proofed with the PSF mark and two asterisks, so I can shoot standard steel.  For your interest, I have quoted  part of their response to my initial email.

" The criteria for steel proofing are: choking at no more than half choke for standard steel or 1/4 choke for high performance steel shot, no pitting or markings inside or outside of the barrels and the barrels must be on the face (barrels tight to action, no play)."

Upon inspection of the barrels with their work on the chokes, Teague can offer to steel proof your gun and I think they would stamp as such.

Best regards

Gafto

Edited by Gafto
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11 minutes ago, Gafto said:

Hi, reproofing is only needed if the forcing cones are altered in any way, if the chambers are re-sleeved or if thin walled multi-chokes are engineered into the barrel. For a fixed choke modification such as reaming and honing, luckily reproofing is not required.

In my correspondence with Teague, they did offer to steel proof certify my gun. I don't need this as it is Nitro proofed with the PSF mark and two asterisks, so I can shoot standard steel.  For your interest, I have quoted  part of their response to my initial email.

" The criteria for steel proofing are: choking at no more than half choke for standard steel or 1/4 choke for high performance steel shot, no pitting or markings inside or outside of the barrels and the barrels must be on the face (barrels tight to action, no play)."

Upon inspection of the barrels with their work on the chokes, Teague can offer to steel proof your gun and I think they would stamp as such.

Best regards

Gafto

Thanks. I only asked because I enquired about chopping and multi-choking a shotgun barrel, for which they informed me it would have to be sent for re-proof. Although I told them that by law there is only a requirement for proof prior to a sale ( which wasn’t the case as the gun was already mine ) they told me that their insurers insisted on re-proofing. 👍

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really surprised at the prices quoted for opening up chokes...........insanely cheap.........

getting chokes opened up on your best gun is a one shot go  and for 40-60 quid/barrell ....is too cheap.........

i paid 150 quid /barrel.........and it came back perfect............reason........it is worked on ....then fired at the plate....worked on ...then plated again...until the pattern is just right.......

chokes are subjective....you are far better saying to yourself..."what pattern do i need for shooting at this range using so and so cartridge...".....................then you get what you need    to do the job

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16 minutes ago, ditchman said:

really surprised at the prices quoted for opening up chokes...........insanely cheap.........

getting chokes opened up on your best gun is a one shot go  and for 40-60 quid/barrell ....is too cheap.........

i paid 150 quid /barrel.........and it came back perfect............reason........it is worked on ....then fired at the plate....worked on ...then plated again...until the pattern is just right.......

chokes are subjective....you are far better saying to yourself..."what pattern do i need for shooting at this range using so and so cartridge...".....................then you get what you need    to do the job

And easy to do with lead as you can test fire it

however steel is a bit of a different beast and no one seems to know how much constriction you need to throw a full choke pattern with steel and fibre/ biowads 

quite happy to pay what it costs but expect the gun to be spot on when it’s done not scrap 

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22 minutes ago, ditchman said:

really surprised at the prices quoted for opening up chokes...........insanely cheap.........

getting chokes opened up on your best gun is a one shot go  and for 40-60 quid/barrell ....is too cheap.........

i paid 150 quid /barrel.........and it came back perfect............reason........it is worked on ....then fired at the plate....worked on ...then plated again...until the pattern is just right.......

chokes are subjective....you are far better saying to yourself..."what pattern do i need for shooting at this range using so and so cartridge...".....................then you get what you need    to do the job

I think the big difference is that one is having some metal removed from your chokes and the other is regulation to a particular cartridge. This is far more effective and accordingly cost more.:good:

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On 31/03/2021 at 18:10, Old farrier said:

You’re going to struggle to get 32 grams of steel into a 2..3/4 case 

I have some 23/4 cartridges with 36gm loads. Bornaghi

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