School closures

[Bumble]

We shut today for school as we normally know it. Tomorrow will be spent uploading lessons for those off to complete at home over the next few weeks.  

However, as I’m not in the high-risk category I’ll be back in next week (and every other week after that) to help care for the children of those whose parents are deemed to be ‘key workers’. Quite what I’m going to be teaching them or how many there’s going to be is anybody’s guess. 
 

The anti-teacher sentiment is somewhat tiring, and seems to be fuelled by dimwits who obviously didn’t benefit much from the education system. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Bumble

[Sian]

I’ll be in school too.  We’ll be looking after keyworker children.  I’m not a teacher but  I’ll be doing admin and helping out with the children.   We’ve prepared online teaching and even recorded ourselves reading stories for,the youngest amongst other things. We don’t know yet whose children we will have although we have many medical peoples children in our school.  We haven’t been told anything yet.  It all sounds easy but the reality is a lot of very young children could be with people they have never met without any time to do a usual settling in.  There will also be children who are at risk.  At the same time we’ve got to try and keep healthy and keep going. I’ve got staff we have had to push out the door because they are vulnerable and can’t stay and help and they aren’t happy about it.  It’s not fun. 

[markm]

This week. 
 

I’ve been a councillor, shoulder to cry on, anger punch bag.   We’ve seen the best of kids and the worst (parent’s as well)

Last normal day tomorrow. 

Monday - in at 8.00am to help serve breakfast (Kids who are FSM/ Key Worker Kids / EHCP) and teach in class and remotely. As my kids are older, I’ll do Easter and onwards. Billy bonus - smart casual.......
 

Currently no hand gel and non expected, no bog roll or paper hand towels.  Happy to do my bit and also deal with keyboard warriors......

Greatest respect to NHS staff. They have the greatest **** storm coming. 

[Mice!]

You could say lorry drivers and shop workers are key at the moment?

I'm not sure how the schools will decide who can still go, I'm sure they are going to get some fair grief on Monday. 

My wifes school are setting up a rotating, not sure what it is yet though.

Kids think school closing is great, had it have been February with the weather we had it would have been dreadful 

[Sian]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

You could say lorry drivers and shop workers are key at the moment?

I'm not sure how the schools will decide who can still go, I'm sure they are going to get some fair grief on Monday. 

My wifes school are setting up a rotating, not sure what it is yet though.

Kids think school closing is great, had it have been February with the weather we had it would have been dreadful 

Our local authority decides who comes and it won’t just be NHS Drs but all their staff, police, fire, delivery drivers and teachers. They are supposed to be giving a list of key workers.

[Bumble]

11 minutes ago, Sian said:

Our local authority decides who comes and it won’t just be NHS Drs but all their staff, police, fire, delivery drivers and teachers. They are supposed to be giving a list of key workers.

The Guardian’s latest report suggests it could include quite a few job roles https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/children-to-attend-school-if-one-parent-classed-as-key-worker

 

 

[Sian]

11 minutes ago, Bumble said:

The Guardian’s latest report suggests it could include quite a few job roles https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/children-to-attend-school-if-one-parent-classed-as-key-worker

 

 

It doesn’t surprise me at all.  

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, not forgetting the coach and bus company drivers on all the school runs, one must presume many will be laid off

 

[markm]

Mr teacher kicker, who wants to do the job, has gone quiet?
 

We’d welcome his support,  to get experience in schools ready for his ITT........

Edited March 19, 2020 by markm

[Bumble]

7 hours ago, markm said:

Mr teacher kicker, who wants to do the job, has gone quiet?
 

We’d welcome his support,  to get experience in schools ready for his ITT........

I’m not sure if degrees from the ‘University of Life’ are acceptable qualifications. 
 

With regards to what we’ll be doing with those left in school, it’s going to be very interesting as they don’t have to follow the National Curriculum & will be a mix of yrs 7-11, so less than straightforward!

 I’m planning on doing some gardening (we’ve got a polytunnel at work that we never use),  lots of building/repairing furniture for classrooms where needed (I’m a DT teacher) and hopefully some walks out into the countryside around the school. 

[WalkedUp]

11 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But to be allowed to get your children admitted either you are a single parent Key Worker or both parents are Key Workers

Apparently this has now changed, the magical merry-go-round of government policy. 1 key worker is enough to qualify. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/children-to-attend-school-if-one-parent-classed-as-key-worker

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/20/key-worker-official-list-of-uk-personnel-who-can-still-send-children-to-school

[treetree]

9 hours ago, markm said:

Mr teacher kicker, who wants to do the job, has gone quiet?
 

We’d welcome his support,  to get experience in schools ready for his ITT........

There will be quite a few teacher-bashers who might get a new found appreciation for the profession after having to try to 'educate' their own offspring in the coming weeks and months. 

Let's see at the end of this if they still think it's just a 5 hour day, sitting behind a desk drinking tea all day long...

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, treetree said:

There will be quite a few teacher-bashers who might get a new found appreciation for the profession after having to try to 'educate' their own offspring in the coming weeks and months. 

Let's see at the end of this if they still think it's just a 5 hour day, sitting behind a desk drinking tea all day long...

I think that you can extend that to beyond teachers.  There is always a tendency to assume some roles are more critical then others, but we are all cogs in the machine.

The minimum wage fulfilment workers in warehouses trying to get produce packed and out to supermarkets are doing a critical job, the minimum wage people on the production lines that are keeping the tins of soup moving are doing a critical job.

What we are witnessing is that when parts of the machine start to fail that everyone is affected.  It would serve us all very well to appreciate that we need to look both downstream and upstream of our own particular place and appreciate that in the main everyone plays their own critical part.

 

[Jaymo]

2 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Apparently this has now changed, the magical merry-go-round of government policy. 1 key worker is enough to qualify. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/children-to-attend-school-if-one-parent-classed-as-key-worker

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/20/key-worker-official-list-of-uk-personnel-who-can-still-send-children-to-school

I’m considered ‘critical’ even though we have very limited flying for the moment.

My wife is a traditional housewife and we wouldn’t dream of sending our boys in placing unnecessary pressure on those who need it.

 

[treetree]

11 minutes ago, grrclark said:

 It would serve us all very well to appreciate that we need to look both downstream and upstream of our own particular place and appreciate that in the main everyone plays their own critical part.

 

Agreed. And I hope their entirely essential function to keeping the cogs of the country going are recognised once this is over. There must be courier drivers working their backsides off to keep the country supplied.

It just appears to me that these essential functions that we are all going to rely on are generally speaking, towards the bottom end of the pay scale.

What contribution will those who profit most during normal time ( bankers, hedge fund managers etc) make in this effort?

[WalkedUp]

19 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

I’m considered ‘critical’ even though we have very limited flying for the moment.

My wife is a traditional housewife and we wouldn’t dream of sending our boys in placing unnecessary pressure on those who need it.

 

My wife and I had this exact conversation last night, that those who can keep their children at home would surely opt to. For the civic good and also protection of your children from unnecessary exposure. 

[grrclark]

5 minutes ago, treetree said:

Agreed. And I hope their entirely essential function to keeping the cogs of the country going are recognised once this is over. There must be courier drivers working their backsides off to keep the country supplied.

It just appears to me that these essential functions that we are all going to rely on are generally speaking, towards the bottom end of the pay scale.

What contribution will those who profit most during normal time ( bankers, hedge fund managers etc) make in this effort?

The folks that make the big bucks also contribute most to the government tax take which in turn funds the salaries of teachers and essential services, etc.

There are of course those who use tax avoidance or minimisation measures, but in general those who earn more pay more.  More than 50% of total income tax revenue is paid by the top 5% of wage earners.

Everybody (mostly) plays their part in different ways, some get their hands dirty and expend lots of physical effort, some don't but make a significant cash contribution to keep the machine running too.  We need both sides.

It's all too easy to throw rocks at things we don't, or cant be bothered, to understand.  Much like people make the face value judgement on teachers having long holidays and a relatively higher rate of pay, compared to national average and so wish to throw rocks at you.

[treetree]

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

The folks that make the big bucks also contribute most to the government tax take which in turn funds the salaries of teachers and essential services, etc.

There are of course those who use tax avoidance or minimisation measures, but in general those who earn more pay more.  More than 50% of total income tax revenue is paid by the top 5% of wage earners.

Everybody (mostly) plays their part in different ways, some get their hands dirty and expend lots of physical effort, some don't but make a significant cash contribution to keep the machine running too.  We need both sides.

It's all too easy to throw rocks at things we don't, or cant be bothered, to understand.  Much like people make the face value judgement on teachers having long holidays and a relatively higher rate of pay, compared to national average and so wish to throw rocks at you.

I'm very much aware of the taxation system, how an economy functions, and what any analysis of the income tax paid in the UK would show.

My point was that the burden of keeping a country going in this SPECIFIC event was generally falling on those at the lower end of the pay scale. The nurses currently  putting their lives at risk were those who had their bursaries cut, the teachers looking after children of key workers (and likely expected to work through Easter) have had a 10 year pay freeze. Many couriers, delivery drivers, supermarket staff work on zero hour contracts.

There are people working above and beyond what they are contractually obliged to do, and at personal risk and my point was that once this is over this ought to be recognised in a fair manner.

So what will the response of the banking sector be in terms of the personal sacrifice and selflessness as shown by so many in this SPECIFIC event?

[grrclark]

45 minutes ago, treetree said:

I'm very much aware of the taxation system, how an economy functions, and what any analysis of the income tax paid in the UK would show.

My point was that the burden of keeping a country going in this SPECIFIC event was generally falling on those at the lower end of the pay scale. The nurses currently  putting their lives at risk were those who had their bursaries cut, the teachers looking after children of key workers (and likely expected to work through Easter) have had a 10 year pay freeze. Many couriers, delivery drivers, supermarket staff work on zero hour contracts.

There are people working above and beyond what they are contractually obliged to do, and at personal risk and my point was that once this is over this ought to be recognised in a fair manner.

So what will the response of the banking sector be in terms of the personal sacrifice and selflessness as shown by so many in this SPECIFIC event?

It’s a good question, but a really complex one and way too soon to answer.

How one might choose to answer also depends on a political ideology too.

Truthfully I don’t think there is an absolute right or wrong answer either.  Fairness is a philosophical construct, we talk about it in monetary terms as that’s easy to quantify, but there is no universal quotient of “fairness” that can be applied to everything.

All jobs are not equal, all people are not equal in terms of capability, attitude, skill, fortitude, or whatever else.  Sometimes the system weighs heavier on some bits than others because there is no balancing mechanism of fairness either, because fairness, as we talk about it, is a value judgement.

In context a trained medic has far greater value in an acute healthcare situation than a financier does, but in other less stressed times the financier may well be the person who is the driving force behind development of medical technology that improves survival rates when things do become stressed, and so proportionately is of far greater value than the medic.

So in context, who has the greater contribution, the person who develops and invents the drug or the people who administer it?  The answer of course is that everyone contributes in some way and we need to be respectful of everyones contribution, regardless of the job title or remuneration for doing the role.

[mel b3]

I've been into about thirty schools this morning,  all of them have said that the plan is to open next week , most said that they will  be open to look after the children of key workers , and also vulnerable children , some said that teachers will be in school and carrying out other duties (cleaning etc) . The children of the nation may well see it as a extra holiday , the adults of the nation should be seeing it very differently. 

As has already been said , we all have our part to play .

[treetree]

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

So in context, who has the greater contribution, the person who develops and invents the drug or the people who administer it?  The answer of course is that everyone contributes in some way and we need to be respectful of everyones contribution, regardless of the job title or remuneration for doing the role.

But in both those examples, there is an added value to what they do, beyond "well they pay lots of tax".  In this example I have no problem that one might be paid more than the other as a result of the capability, skill etc that you mention. I have my doubts as to the added real value of much of the banking / finance industry.

If we limit our notion of fairness to the outcome of this event, I think it fair that those 3rd year nurses who are being called upon to go straight to the 'Front line' ought to have any debt they have from their course costs wiped clean. I also think it fair that this should be paid for by a wealth tax from those who have far more than they could ever need.

 

[grrclark]

48 minutes ago, treetree said:

But in both those examples, there is an added value to what they do, beyond "well they pay lots of tax".  In this example I have no problem that one might be paid more than the other as a result of the capability, skill etc that you mention. I have my doubts as to the added real value of much of the banking / finance industry.

If we limit our notion of fairness to the outcome of this event, I think it fair that those 3rd year nurses who are being called upon to go straight to the 'Front line' ought to have any debt they have from their course costs wiped clean. I also think it fair that this should be paid for by a wealth tax from those who have far more than they could ever need.

 

Why is it that fairness is always monetary in these examples?  Sure some sort of bonus or compensatory measure may be appropriate, in many cases i am quite sure it would, but in every example you put forward there will a counter argument of why that is unfair.

Is it fair that the architect student should have to carry their debt just because they dont work in nursing? They might be every bit as willing to contribute to an effort and put themselves as every bit at risk of contracting the disease, but tough luck matey you chose the wrong course so no bail out for you.

Perhaps reading between the lines a little, but do you think teachers that are continuing to work should get a compensatory bonus too?

[treetree]

19 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Why is it that fairness is always monetary in these examples?  

 

It isn't 'always', but in the specific example I gave, the financial nature stems from and seeks to redress the the initial financial unfairness; nurses have paid course fees, and have then been asked to go straight in to help fight a global pandemic, which in doing so places themselves and their families at a greater risk of infection. All that for a job with a median salary of £23K (£18K for new starters.)

 

28 minutes ago, grrclark said:

but in every example you put forward there will a counter argument of why that is unfair.

 

Please provide this counter argument regarding my nurses point.

 

29 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Is it fair that the architect student should have to carry their debt just because they dont work in nursing? 

Are architectural students currently working round the clock providing lifesaving function? Are they placing themselves at a high risk of contracting the virus? Are architects facing one of the biggest challenges to their profession in the last 100 years?

 

33 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Perhaps reading between the lines a little, but do you think teachers that are continuing to work should get a compensatory bonus too?

Ha! No, that's not my aim or belief. Teachers will have a hugely important role to play, but its nowhere near the frontline medical staff whose bravery and selflessness I, and I'm sure most people, am in awe of.

[grrclark]

The architecture student was by dint of example, the actual qualification or otherwise doesn’t matter.  There will be plenty people who make sacrifice in order to help throughout this crisis, some of which will involve putting themselves at risk.  People who continue to serve groceries are facing people every day who might have the virus, do you settle their debts?

What about the non student medics who are doing the same job as the newly engaged 3rd years, do we pay their mortgage?  Why should the student get a £27k windfall, but not the RGN who is 1yr further on?

Also what part do the rest of us play?  The student is getting the windfall to cover their debt, the ultra wealthy have got to fund that, so what about the rest of us, do we get something too if deemed worthy or if we earn above a certain point do we have to pay.

Where is the fairness of the system behind that, what arbitrary measure will you come up with to decide how that works and demonstrate the fairness?

 

[Bumble]

 

3 hours ago, grrclark said:

Perhaps reading between the lines a little, but do you think teachers that are continuing to work should get a compensatory bonus too?

All of us who aren’t in the high-risk categories are timetabled to go in. Some (including myself) are in more than others because we’ve volunteered to take on extra. 
The rest of the time, the pigeons are getting it.