Boris

[Vince Green]

They say that the three day rule should be applied to all things coming into the house. Pick the post off the mat with tweezers or gloves and put it somewhere safe out of the way for three days before opening it. It has already been recognised that post is potentially hazardous.

Same with shopping, bring the bags in but don't unpack them for three days if you want to be ultra safe.

[johnphilip]

13 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

They say that the three day rule should be applied to all things coming into the house. Pick the post off the mat with tweezers or gloves and put it somewhere safe out of the way for three days before opening it. It has already been recognised that post is potentially hazardous.

Same with shopping, bring the bags in but don't unpack them for three days if you want to be ultra safe.

And what about the stuff that has defrosted.  Why not give things a wipe , but them away , then give yourself a good wash .

[Vince Green]

1 minute ago, johnphilip said:

And what about the stuff that has defrosted.  Why not give things a wipe , but them away , then give yourself a good wash .

I presume the idea applies to tins, bottles, and packets not frozen stuff. 

[loriusgarrulus]

I spray or wipe all delivery packages with 70% isopropyl alcohol. I am lucky OH kept IPA in as one of his hobbies is electronics and he always has plenty in for cleaning electrics with. I have baby wipes that have been soaked in 70% IPA and put in a plastic box to stop evaporation kept by the front door.

You could do this with hand soap grated in hot water to make a soap solution and sponge it over packages and wash your hands too.

 

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, loriusgarrulus said:

I spray or wipe all delivery packages with 70% isopropyl alcohol. I am lucky OH kept IPA in as one of his hobbies is electronics and he always has plenty in for cleaning electrics with. I have baby wipes that have been soaked in 70% IPA and put in a plastic box to stop evaporation kept by the front door.

You could do this with hand soap grated in hot water to make a soap solution and sponge it over packages and wash your hands too.

 

I wonder if clear Methanol wold do the same?

[jonny705]

Okay so have been ‘self-isolating’ since 31^st of December last year with slipped disc, now as just get better this, so have had some time on my hands J

So read a lot on 24hr/3days/3hours air atomisation, and how it spreads, I really think it’s correct, it has been studied before in its relatives virus family so the accepted slandered.

My Niece works at BA and is still flying everywhere at moment, I worry for her.

Yet Uk and RM know better, like how? By ignoring known facts?

As Matt Hancock, the UK Secretary for health and social care, clarified after criticism of the UK government: “Herd immunity is not our goal or policy. It’s a scientific concept.”

Most of the people I Love and cherish are at risk in your ‘scientific concept’

The general consensus at the moment is a cure will be found next year, now whether that is likely who knows?

But it has more probability than a ‘scientific concept’ hasn’t it?

You could have contained the outbreak ASAP and stopped it spreading, but had to be contained for maybe a year.

But the economy I guess would tumble and normal people would as mostly in debt, go quickly into negative equity, so IMO the reason for ‘heard immunity’ It always about the Green.

So Our Government has Remembrance Day once a year, we all Patriotic salute the veterans as they walk by, humbled by their sacrifice often with tears in our eyes.

A yearly exhibition put on by our government telling us “Lest we not forget” these brave people.

Yet now the same Government has well not only forgotten them, but abandons them to “A scientific concept”?

Again is this not a bit hypocritical?

Edited March 20, 2020 by jonny705
misspost

[loriusgarrulus]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

I wonder if clear Methanol wold do the same?

Unfortunately not. It's quite toxic in those concentrations.  That's why home distilling is so risky if you don't  know what your doing. Inhaling, ingesting it or skin absorption can poison you.

[jonny705]

Ok so inevitably get called a Conspiracy loon.

So before you reach your already conclusion I will get record straight of what I think.

I do think it originated from China as most of its family of Virus does, as to if it was a Bioweapon gone wrong – who knows? I don’t and have not got a clue –its pure guesswork on anyone’s part.

I do think China though lead the field in genetic research, and do think they don’t really conform to any ethical restrictions so will logically advance in that field far quicker  than any western country.

I do think that a lot of counties did/do have an interest in eugenics as it documented isn’t it?

I don’t for any moment think any modern country would start using implementing it as would be unethical uproar.

China? Again pure supposition, but I would not put it past them; DNA is the future of the advancement of the human race that is no conspiracy at all.

Any Capitalist countries will be screwed as such economically, and will I imagine get worse so we are all in similar impending financial crisis.

Pure conjecture on my part as to loads of older people dying and already ill dying, and will make a beneficial long term financial impact on Government after it has run its course.

I keep on reading about on this very forum and elsewhere how they are unproductive and a drain on our recourses my conjecture originates from that accepted consensus TBH.

I don’t for any reason think or suggest UK / Boris deliberately infected us on purpose, that defies any logic as all about the money, so if we had a cure as such , of course I think the Government would distribute it to UK population first as we would carry on being productive.

But I do think our government/Boris have made the decision on not to close down country based on economics, rather than established methods everyone else is using, that seem to be working.

I do still do think it’s hypocritical of the government to make out they gave a damn when they really don’t.

I aint no loon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AVB]

15 minutes ago, jonny705 said:

Ok so inevitably get called a Conspiracy loon.

 

So before you reach your already conclusion I will get record straight of what I think.

 

I do think it originated from China as most of its family of Virus does, as to if it was a Bioweapon gone wrong – who knows? I don’t and have not got a clue –its pure guesswork on anyone’s part.

 

I do think China though lead the field in genetic research, and do think they don’t really conform to any ethical restrictions so will logically advance in that field far quicker  than any western country.

 

 

I do think that a lot of counties did/do have an interest in eugenics as it documented isn’t it?

 

I don’t for any moment think any modern country would start using implementing it as would be unethical uproar.

 

China? Again pure supposition, but I would not put it past them; DNA is the future of the advancement of the human race that is no conspiracy at all.

Any Capitalist countries will be screwed as such economically, and will I imagine get worse so we are all in similar impending financial crisis.

 

 

Pure conjecture on my part as to loads of older people dying and already ill dying, and will make a beneficial long term financial impact on Government after it has run its course.

 

I keep on reading about on this very forum and elsewhere how they are unproductive and a drain on our recourses my conjecture originates from that accepted consensus TBH.

 

I don’t for any reason think or suggest UK / Boris deliberately infected us on purpose, that defies any logic as all about the money, so if we had a cure as such , of course I think the Government would distribute it to UK population first as we would carry on being productive.

 

But I do think our government/Boris have made the decision on not to close down country based on economics, rather than established methods everyone else is using, that seem to be working.

 

I do still do think it’s hypocritical of the government to make out they gave a damn when they really don’t.

 

I aint no loon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry but you are. I can’t make much sense of your ramblings but the reality is that the government is closing down the country but by bit. The fact is that all you achieve by shutting the country down is that it slows down the infections rate. It doesn’t stop it, people still die, and when the restrictions are eased the virus flares up again.  

The quicker a country gets the majority of the population immune the quicker it will recover. 

In your earlier post you talk about people just going into debt as though that is a small thing. Well what when Credit dries up (and it will)? We are talking about no money at all, and therefore nobody paying any income tax therefore nobody contributing to the government coffers aka the NHS. We are in a slow death spiral to economic destruction. 

Out of interest where is your money to pay the bills coming from? Because you may find that drying up. 

[grrclark]

55 minutes ago, AVB said:

Sorry but you are. I can’t make much sense of your ramblings but the reality is that the government is closing down the country but by bit. The fact is that all you achieve by shutting the country down is that it slows down the infections rate. It doesn’t stop it, people still die, and when the restrictions are eased the virus flares up again.  

The quicker a country gets the majority of the population immune the quicker it will recover. 

In your earlier post you talk about people just going into debt as though that is a small thing. Well what when Credit dries up (and it will)? We are talking about no money at all, and therefore nobody paying any income tax therefore nobody contributing to the government coffers aka the NHS. We are in a slow death spiral to economic destruction. 

Out of interest where is your money to pay the bills coming from? Because you may find that drying up. 

👍

[Raja Clavata]

We appear to have just about the lowest infection rate per capita in Europe, if only we get the mortality rate down to the figures Germany are seeing we'd be leading the world.

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

if only we get the mortality rate down to the figures Germany

I think it is difficult to compare because each country has different criteria for testing (probably driven by the availability of test kits and the 'lab and back office' staff to process them).

It is generally reported that we are only testing a minority of 'suspects' and particularly those who are more seriously affected.

IF you were able to test everyone with symptoms (and also every time they showed symptoms if it is negative the first time) - then I think our infection rate would be much higher than showing now ...... and our mortality rate much lower (as a proportion of positive tests).

[Retsdon]

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

This an excellent study into how infection numbers develop during epidemics and the choices facing authorities trying to manage or mitigate such epidemics. 

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think it is difficult to compare because each country has different criteria for testing (probably driven by the availability of test kits and the 'lab and back office' staff to process them).

It is generally reported that we are only testing a minority of 'suspects' and particularly those who are more seriously affected.

IF you were able to test everyone with symptoms (and also every time they showed symptoms if it is negative the first time) - then I think our infection rate would be much higher than showing now ...... and our mortality rate much lower (as a proportion of positive tests).

Good point John, I suspect you are right. Sorry, I was multi-tasking earlier and just looking at the numbers. From what I understand we're only testing people admitted into hospital, I was on the phone to a colleague in Munich discussing but we didn't have time to get into the details.

[Raja Clavata]

Indeed, just did the maths - Germany @ 0.27% mortality - UK @ 4.43%.

Using the Germany mortality figure at 80% long term infection in UK would yield ~150k deaths

[Retsdon]

It's impossible to get a valid mortality rate whilst the infection rate is climbing exponentially. And there are other factors too, such as quality of health care, average age of population, etc, etc. Because they have a large number of resolved cases and only a minority of still active ones, perhaps the best guess so far would be made using the numbers from China. And that would put the overall mortality rate at about 4.2%. But there are 3 strains of this virus now, and the one currently affecting Europe would seem not to be as aggressive as the first type that hit Wuhan. So who knows....

[grrclark]

28 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It's impossible to get a valid mortality rate whilst the infection rate is climbing exponentially. And there are other factors too, such as quality of health care, average age of population, etc, etc. Because they have a large number of resolved cases and only a minority of still active ones, perhaps the best guess so far would be made using the numbers from China. And that would put the overall mortality rate at about 4.2%. But there are 3 strains of this virus now, and the one currently affecting Europe would seem not to be as aggressive as the first type that hit Wuhan. So who knows....

Where does this info on 3 strains come from?

I was listening to a virologist earlier who referenced differences in virus mutation, such that they could identify 3 variations, however the differences were so slight that it can be and is considered as a single virus.

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Where does this info on 3 strains come from?

I was listening to a virologist earlier who referenced differences in virus mutation, such that they could identify 3 variations, however the differences were so slight that it can be and is considered as a single virus.

I used the word 'strain' instead of variation- I wasn't aware there was a difference! I got the information from the article I linked to above. https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56 . Interesting though, Trump's references to chloroquine. It seems that its efficacy against SARS was mentioned a few years ago. As this Covid is a relative of the same virus family, If chloroquine could only just mitigate the worst symptoms and perhaps even inhibit the development of full-blown pneumonia , ti would - at least in the short term -be a life saver. Here's hoping. 

[grrclark]

18 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I used the word 'strain' instead of variation- I wasn't aware there was a difference! I got the information from the article I linked to above. https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56 . Interesting though, Trump's references to chloroquine. It seems that its efficacy against SARS was mentioned a few years ago. As this Covid is a relative of the same virus family, If chloroquine could only just mitigate the worst symptoms and perhaps even inhibit the development of full-blown pneumonia , ti would - at least in the short term -be a life saver. Here's hoping. 

Here's hoping indeed.

Not sure if there is a difference between strain or variation in respect to virus terminology, what the chap said this morning was that despite the natural mutation in the virus that they were still considering it as a single thing, that was really what i was getting at.  I was surprised at your reference to Italy having a different strain in that it is distinctly different.

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, grrclark said:

I was surprised at your reference to Italy having a different strain

No, what I meant was that the Italian mutation isn't apparently as aggressive as the original Wuhan virus. There are definitely variations of the beast though. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/scientists-identify-two-types-of-covid-19-virus

[grrclark]

Just now, Retsdon said:

No, what I meant was that the Italian mutation isn't apparently as aggressive as the original Wuhan virus. There are definitely variations of the beast though. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/scientists-identify-two-types-of-covid-19-virus

The common cold is a coronavirus and as yet no vaccine or cure for that, i think that is causing a lot of consternation and fear that if there is a bifurcation of the virus that it makes a vaccine or cure unlikely.

On the flip side there are not many virus' that mutate into something scarier than they start out as.

[Retsdon]

6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

The common cold is a coronavirus

Yes, our old friend, HCoV-229E. Haha, if nothing else, I'm learning a lot  useless information on a subject I knew absolutely nothing about before!

[loriusgarrulus]

The common cold is a mixture of Coronavirus, Adenovirus and Rhinovirus.

 

[Vince Green]

19 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

We appear to have just about the lowest infection rate per capita in Europe, if only we get the mortality rate down to the figures Germany are seeing we'd be leading the world.

Germany has about 6X the high dependency beds per capita compared to the UK. My local hospital, Northwick Park had to stop admissions for a while yesterday and we are nowhere near the peak yet.

[Retsdon]

19 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Germany has about 6X the high dependency beds per capita compared to the UK. My local hospital, Northwick Park had to stop admissions for a while yesterday and we are nowhere near the peak yet.

This picture from the link I posted yesterday makes for sobering viewing. The numbers are for the USA, but the graph and the relationship between numbers will be pretty t the same for the UK and many other countries in Europe. And that's why it's a matter of such urgency that the infection rate is drastically reduced as soon as is humanly possible. There isnt any time for delay.