Update from BASC / DEFRA

[lancer425]

Just now, clangerman said:

thanks as most of my perms come from farmers word of mouth i’m all in favour of people staying in 

I got local farms and much of it family farm, but i still don’t feel i can justify being out there. I want to go out foxing, but its just not necessary.

If it changes ill have to re-evaluate my position. The corvids are getting a bit serious but again i can not justify any action just yet not with 100% confidence if challenged. Like shooting fishing is good too but i dont want that full time.

[clangerman]

Just now, lancer425 said:

I got local farms and much of it family farm, but i still don’t feel i can justify being out there. I want to go out foxing, but its just not necessary.

If it changes ill have to re-evaluate my position. The corvids are getting a bit serious but again i can not justify any action just yet not with 100% confidence if challenged. Like shooting fishing is good too but i dont want that full time.

one of the few times i don’t want to be out is the blackuns coming up shortly but silage and maize cost money so not my call just have to get on with it and bear the.waste of good cartridges lol

[andrewluke]

2 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I got local farms and much of it family farm, but i still don’t feel i can justify being out there. I want to go out foxing, but its just not necessary.

If it changes ill have to re-evaluate my position. The corvids are getting a bit serious but again i can not justify any action just yet not with 100% confidence if challenged. Like shooting fishing is good too but i dont want that full time.

that's thing "it's not necessary",but shooting pigeons may be necessary for some

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

i'm pretty sure that we've been told if you can work from home then that's the way to go and if not then go to work,i dont think anyone could control pigeons from home so if a farmer is have problems with pigeons then they need sorting,seems ok for my son to be in the thick of it because he works in M&S(with no protection),

More questions there than answers. What constitutes work < It need not be work but Why you? Why there? why then?  Could you have done it another way? Could a resident on the property have done that task? What is essential? what damage. ?  Lots to account for. IF ASKED.  Not for me ill pass. 

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

that's thing "it's not necessary",but shooting pigeons may be necessary for some

Shooting foxes crows will be necessary for some i am 100% on that, normaly i a\m busy right now, but just not seeing much activity. But was hitting them super hard all winter, with all that rain slowing the fowling down, i was living foxing. So could have paid off. But sure if i went out tonight or calling in the AM i would get one or two, but they are not obvious or making an obvious nuisance of themselves just now. so its a non starter. I am Seeing corvid activity , i am uncomfortable about but again not just yet a good enough reason just yet  in my view. 

[andrewluke]

12 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

More questions there than answers. What constitutes work < It need not be work but Why you? Why there? why then?  Could you have done it another way? Could a resident on the property have done that task? What is essential? what damage. ?  Lots to account for. IF ASKED.  Not for me ill pass. 

exactly!

[old'un]

25 minutes ago, clangerman said:

one of the few times i don’t want to be out is the blackuns coming up shortly but silage and maize cost money so not my call just have to get on with it and bear the.waste of good cartridges lol

Why is it a waste of cartridges shooting blacks to protect crops?

[Scully]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

Not the point. I am not a park sitter and sun bather. but i am a shooter. I am interested to see whats getting hit right here and now > I could have missed something over the years on this at this time of the year. and We could be seeing serrious damage being done. so lets see it.

  I am not against people who flat out are up against it, with foxes mauling lambs and Pigeons decimating crops.

  What i dont want to see is just the lads out for a go on the pigeons and getting 4.  So lets be seeing this it clearly is happening but on what crops and where.

I want to get out on foxes, itching to get a go, but not seeing any reason too at all in the areas i shoot . So wont be going.

  Some lads have been out lets be seeing it, it could do shooting a lot of good.

Or i supose harm if they got it wrong.

Lets see it then.

No i am not, it seems its fine to draw any conclusion you want when you post. But get a real challenge and your saying i am getting carried away .

Put up or shut up.

 Either we got serious damage , we can do no more than protect gas guns etc zero effect. Or is it lads out playing . Lets see it. No offence here just lets be having some real facts.

You really do enjoy telling people what to do don't you? 'Put up' what exactly. Real facts regarding what? 

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

 

 Its not us we got to convince its a Police officer who might just not be as sympathetic to our line of thinking. But again if you got it covered no need to sweat. I do not think i can justify any action, so i act appropriately. every one of us must act the same way.

Now you're starting to get it! Each to their own. 👍

[lancer425]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

You really do enjoy telling people what to do don't you? 'Put up' what exactly. Real facts regarding what? 

Now you're starting to get it! Each to their own. 👍

Post up some results crops saved food conserved Pests controlled. If the WORK is Absolutely Essential. Surely we need it out there in the public domain. But thats if its genuinely justified activity. If not perhaps NOT> I do not expect much of an uptake on this because i suspect Much of the activity is Unjustified at this present time. But i am interested to see what those who have ventured out have achieved EXACTLY.

<

[lancer425]

24 minutes ago, Scully said:

You really do enjoy telling people what to do don't you? 'Put up' what exactly. Real facts regarding what? 

Now you're starting to get it! Each to their own. 👍

NO that’s implying the shooter chaoses, Its simply not the case. Your giving out unsound advice. The police are not unified in their approach to this issue. And shooters need to justify their action. If they can not do that then where are they. ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Post up some results crops saved food conserved Pests controlled. If the WORK is Absolutely Essential. Surely we need it out there in the public domain. But thats if its genuinely justified activity. If not perhaps NOT> I do not expect much of an uptake on this because i suspect Much of the activity is Unjustified at this present time. But i am interested to see what those who have ventured out have achieved EXACTLY.

<

I’m not sure you’re listening. As I said in a previous post, apart from a two hour wander about I haven’t been out shooting. If it’s pics of dead pigeons or ravished fields you’re after, you’ll have to search elsewhere. 
Neither have I ever stated the work is essential.
If anyone can justify to themselves that they are complying with current advice, then that is all that is necessary....unless you know different of course. 
I have at no time put either myself nor anyone else at unnecessary risk, since this all began.
I do however, stand a greater chance of either picking up or spreading the virus while at work ( but have no choice but to work unfortunately ) than I would whilst sitting in an empty field. Logic and common sense. 👍

[Farmboy91]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure you’re listening. As I said in a previous post, apart from a two hour wander about I haven’t been out shooting. If it’s pics of dead pigeons or ravished fields you’re after, you’ll have to search elsewhere. 
Neither have I ever stated the work is essential.
If anyone can justify to themselves that they are complying with current advice, then that is all that is necessary....unless you know different of course. 
I have at no time put either myself nor anyone else at unnecessary risk, since this all began.
I do however, stand a greater chance of either picking up or spreading the virus while at work ( but have no choice but to work unfortunately ) than I would whilst sitting in an empty field. Logic and common sense. 👍

You can't come round here applying common sense and logic....

😂

[lancer425]

Way too much adjustment in there . Lets go back to basics.

The police as in various forces, are not all giving out the same advice.

BASC issued this.

AFTER consulting Defra, BASC has updated its advice for conducting essential pest control during the Coronavirus restrictions imposed by government:

 

In line with the Prime Minister’s statement, when making a decision on whether or not to conduct essential wildlife management you should consider:

 

• Is the landowner, or person responsible for giving permission, happy for you to be on the land in the current crisis?

   

• Can you maintain effective social distancing? 

   

• Is the management involved absolutely essential?

   

• Is there a risk that your activities could result in the emergency services being called out? For example, someone reporting shots being fired.

   

• Should you inform the local police in advance that you are going out? If you do, secure the reference number for the call.

   

Everyone’s circumstances are different so individual decisions will have to be made, although the onus will be on remaining off the land. So-called ‘recreational shooting’ or taking clients shooting are ruled out at present.

 

Be aware that you should be able to stand up your decision if you are challenged by the enforcement authorities or you risk a fine and may put your certificate at risk.

 

BASC has published a number of FAQs around Coronavirus and shooting. These are on the dedicated Coronavirus page on our website.

 

 

 

If you meet it all your technically good to go. But are you?

 Lots to get wrong and interpretation of the rules are one thing, ending up in trouble is another.

Scaremongering on my part is born out of nothing more than Even one shooter in these boards getting in to trouble with the Lock down rules.

To say each to his own, is fine but the police are not uniform in their interpretation of what is right or wrong. But in contacting the police you might then be in a better position, if indeed you talked to the right person in the police, and it might be an idea to have clear evidence on what was said by the police. A denial on any single officers part however unlikely might not look good in the light of any pending prosecution. Licences could go here dress it up pretty as you like but its a real possibility.

[Scully]

16 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Way too much adjustment in there . Lets go back to basics.

The police as in various forces, are not all giving out the same advice.

BASC issued this.

AFTER consulting Defra, BASC has updated its advice for conducting essential pest control during the Coronavirus restrictions imposed by government:

 

In line with the Prime Minister’s statement, when making a decision on whether or not to conduct essential wildlife management you should consider:

 

• Is the landowner, or person responsible for giving permission, happy for you to be on the land in the current crisis?

   

• Can you maintain effective social distancing? 

   

• Is the management involved absolutely essential?

   

• Is there a risk that your activities could result in the emergency services being called out? For example, someone reporting shots being fired.

   

• Should you inform the local police in advance that you are going out? If you do, secure the reference number for the call.

   

Everyone’s circumstances are different so individual decisions will have to be made, although the onus will be on remaining off the land. So-called ‘recreational shooting’ or taking clients shooting are ruled out at present.

 

Be aware that you should be able to stand up your decision if you are challenged by the enforcement authorities or you risk a fine and may put your certificate at risk.

 

BASC has published a number of FAQs around Coronavirus and shooting. These are on the dedicated Coronavirus page on our website.

 

 

 

If you meet it all your technically good to go. But are you?

 Lots to get wrong and interpretation of the rules are one thing, ending up in trouble is another.

Scaremongering on my part is born out of nothing more than Even one shooter in these boards getting in to trouble with the Lock down rules.

To say each to his own, is fine but the police are not uniform in their interpretation of what is right or wrong. But in contacting the police you might then be in a better position, if indeed you talked to the right person in the police, and it might be an idea to have clear evidence on what was said by the police. A denial on any single officers part however unlikely might not look good in the light of any pending prosecution. Licences could go here dress it up pretty as you like but its a real possibility.

Isn’t this what I’ve been saying? Even in the information you give above there are variables and even more questions, rather than instructions, and therefore much remains open to interpretation, and even the term ‘essential.’ 
It is not up to you to tell others what they should or shouldn’t be doing...hence each to their own.

If each person can justify what they are doing ( which is what I’ve said all along ) as per the instructions above, I see no harm in going out.... I genuinely can’t see how anyone is risking either contracting or spreading the virus in an empty field.....you disagree, and that’s fair enough. I have no truck with that at all; my only annoyance is your persistence in telling people what they should or shouldn’t do; it’s not up to you. 
It’s up to each individual to decide, and not up to you. Leave that to the authorities. Each to their own. 👍

[southeastpete]

I’m with the above when I’ve been saying you should be able to go. Not just for a mooch to get one or two, but in circumstances where fields ARE being heavily hit there is a clear need to protection. 

That doesn’t mean anyone who does go out is under any obligation to provide proof to lancer425 or anyone else. 

The police have had their hands slapped for over stepping the mark, and pressing charges or fining a lone shooter in the countryside when there are house parties, street parties, holidayers, and park picnics and bbqs going on would just be ridiculous....

[clangerman]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

Why is it a waste of cartridges shooting blacks to protect crops?

it’s not I just rather use them on the pige than blackuns but that’s the price of having the perm farmer says shoot them you have to oblige 

[andrewluke]

what i find odd is that you "can not" go shooting in the middle of nowhere but ok for my son who works in M&S to mix with hundreds of customers with no protection??

[lancer425]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

Isn’t this what I’ve been saying? Even in the information you give above there are variables and even more questions, rather than instructions, and therefore much remains open to interpretation, and even the term ‘essential.’ 
It is not up to you to tell others what they should or shouldn’t be doing...hence each to their own.

If each person can justify what they are doing ( which is what I’ve said all along ) as per the instructions above, I see no harm in going out.... I genuinely can’t see how anyone is risking either contracting or spreading the virus in an empty field.....you disagree, and that’s fair enough. I have no truck with that at all; my only annoyance is your persistence in telling people what they should or shouldn’t do; it’s not up to you. 
It’s up to each individual to decide, and not up to you. Leave that to the authorities. Each to their own. 👍

But its just not that simple, and the authorities are telling us what to do, and many if not all of them dont want us shooting. Its not up to the individual at all at this moment in time. its not only circumstance related but licensing area relative too.

13 minutes ago, southeastpete said:

I’m with the above when I’ve been saying you should be able to go. Not just for a mooch to get one or two, but in circumstances where fields ARE being heavily hit there is a clear need to protection. 

That doesn’t mean anyone who does go out is under any obligation to provide proof to lancer425 or anyone else. 

The police have had their hands slapped for over stepping the mark, and pressing charges or fining a lone shooter in the countryside when there are house parties, street parties, holidayers, and park picnics and bbqs going on would just be ridiculous....

And if your sure your police area are good with that, and your reasons for going will stand up to any rigarous questioning. then you could be ok. MAY BE!

[8 shot]

I can meet all the BASC criteria apart from the risk of an emergency service being called, which I doubt anyone can as that is down to someone else. I would be on my own and travel approximately 2 miles from home. But the answer is still a definite no. 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, lancer425 said:

But its just not that simple, and the authorities are telling us what to do, and many if not all of them dont want us shooting. Its not up to the individual at all at this moment in time. its not only circumstance related but licensing area relative too.

Yes, the authorities are telling us what to do, so why can’t you leave it up to them? 
It isn’t simple because not all authorities ( police ) are singing from the same sheet, and as our shooting organisations seem to have abandoned their obligations to shooters, it is up to them to interpret the information as regarding ‘essential ‘ as best they can, so therefore it is up to the individual. 
I live in the sticks; really in the sticks, and I hear shots going off quite often, especially at this time of the year around lambing time. 
There HAS to be a place for common sense in all matters. 
Each to their own. 

[lancer425]

4 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I can meet all the BASC criteria apart from the risk of an emergency service being called, which I doubt anyone can as that is down to someone else. I would be on my own and travel approximately 2 miles from home. But the answer is still a definite no. 

You me and many  are in the same boat when you look at it in the cold light of day.    One of the reasons i am so keen to see the pigeon shooters who are going out right now. WHERE? ON WHAT?  I could not justify it. I could fudge it, but i doubt the Police would fudge anything it it was put the the test.

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I can meet all the BASC criteria apart from the risk of an emergency service being called, which I doubt anyone can as that is down to someone else. I would be on my own and travel approximately 2 miles from home. But the answer is still a definite no. 

And that is entirely up to you; no one can criticise you for that anymore than someone in a very similar position who decides to go. 
That is what is meant by each to their own. 

[lancer425]

Just now, Scully said:

Yes, the authorities are telling us what to do, so why can’t you leave it up to them? 
It isn’t simple because not all authorities ( police ) are singing from the same sheet, and as our shooting organisations seem to have abandoned their obligations to shooters, it is up to them to interpret the information as regarding ‘essential ‘ as best they can, so therefore it is up to the individual. 
I live in the sticks; really in the sticks, and I hear shots going off quite often, especially at this time of the year around lambing time. 
There HAS to be a place for common sense in all matters. 
Each to their own. 

Not telling anybody anything, just pointing out miss information from your part its potentially misleading.

A quick question for you.  Can you guarantee no one will get into trouble if they think they have done all they need to do. ? YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE>

 

[8 shot]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

There HAS to be a place for common sense in all matters

Sadly that is the one thing that is lacking all over the world at the moment. And is one thing money can’t buy.

3 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Can you guarantee no one will get into trouble if they think they have done all they need to do. ? YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE>

 

NO 

[grahamch]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

Why is it a waste of cartridges shooting blacks to protect crops?

That sounds just a wee bit racist??