Deaths

[AVB]

Apparently the U.K. is far more compliant at following the  lockdown ‘rules’ than other European countries (reports of a few riots in Germany).  You might read of the idiots who flaunt breaching it but pretty much we are a compliant bunch. Forcing everybody into a lockdown and shooting people breaking the curfew, as I am sure a few in here would want, isn’t going to make a material difference to the spread. The government reported today that people have been somewhat too compliant with businesses, that were expected to be able to operate, closing which puts more pressure on U.K. PLC finances  

The NHS and the supporting services have done a fantastic job at expanding critical care capacity (we now have more spare ICU beds than normally) so we now need to look at how we ease restrictions in order to get the country moving. 

[Raja Clavata]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Apparently the U.K. is far more compliant at following the  lockdown ‘rules’ than other European countries (reports of a few riots in Germany).  You might read of the idiots who flaunt breaching it but pretty much we are a compliant bunch. Forcing everybody into a lockdown and shooting people breaking the curfew, as I am sure a few in here would want, isn’t going to make a material difference to the spread. The government reported today that people have been somewhat too compliant with businesses, that were expected to be able to operate, closing which puts more pressure on U.K. PLC finances  

The NHS and the supporting services have done a fantastic job at expanding critical care capacity (we now have more spare ICU beds than normally) so we now need to look at how we ease restrictions in order to get the country moving. 

Agreed. It's time to start dialogue on the details of the exit strategy and how things will slowly start to re-open - I don't understand why anyone would seriously be advocating a more stringent lockdown - would be interested to see the data supporting that. 

[Jaymo]

49 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Agreed. It's time to start dialogue on the details of the exit strategy and how things will slowly start to re-open - I don't understand why anyone would seriously be advocating a more stringent lockdown - would be interested to see the data supporting that. 

Make a start by getting Maccy D’s breakfast’s going again along side KFC 🙂

Miss my breakfast on the way to work- speaking of which, start booking flights you lot- wife has lost her ‘appeal’ 

[Mice!]

49 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Agreed. It's time to start dialogue on the details of the exit strategy and how things will slowly start to re-open - I don't understand why anyone would seriously be advocating a more stringent lockdown - would be interested to see the data supporting that. 

The new cases and deaths haven't really come down yet, if people start going back to normal too soon we risk all these weeks being wasted. 

[Raja Clavata]

In the health authority area I live in new infections have averaged ~25 for the last four consecutive days after a peak six days ago at nearly three times that figure, that's with a population just over 250k. I find it hard to imagine the rest of the country is more than three weeks behind that trend. The government need to start sharing their strategy to exit this, give the public some hope and optimism. Personally I don't know what normal is going to look like after this and I don't think anyone is suggesting we try to flick the switch back to "normal" - a nice steady transition will do starting with certain sectors in the city of London perhaps (I don't work in the city so no ulterior motive).

I would like to think the government have plans to allow us all to celebrate May bank holiday in some resemblance of the style / manner originally intended - I'd suggest opening parks, national trust land and beaches but knowing our luck it'll probably lash it down 🙂 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Make a start by getting Maccy D’s breakfast’s going again along side KFC 🙂

Miss my breakfast on the way to work- speaking of which, start booking flights you lot- wife has lost her ‘appeal’ 

Yes on the first line, can't comment on the second 😛 

[Jaymo]

37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Yes on the first line, can't comment on the second 😛 

Wash your mouth out 🙂

[Mice!]

46 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

In the health authority area I live in new infections have averaged ~25 for the last four consecutive days after a peak six days ago at nearly three times that figure, that's with a population just over 250k

Unfortunately the numbers aren't coming down yet, I cant see how they could say London for instance is relaxing the lockdown but the rest of the country stays the same.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Take a look and compare with Spain and France, the loose lockdown they started with probably means another 3 weeks of this, same as Northern Ireland said today.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Snipped>

I would like to think the government have plans to allow us all to celebrate May bank holiday in some resemblance of the style / manner originally intended - I'd suggest opening parks, national trust land and beaches but knowing our luck it'll probably lash it down 🙂 

Great, I have a dry suit and kayak on standby!

[Raja Clavata]

43 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Unfortunately the numbers aren't coming down yet, I cant see how they could say London for instance is relaxing the lockdown but the rest of the country stays the same.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Take a look and compare with Spain and France, the loose lockdown they started with probably means another 3 weeks of this, same as Northern Ireland said today.

I’m suggesting with three more weeks of the current restrictions we should see the flattening and dipping trend across the country.

I’ve been looking at that site for weeks but the numbers are not always comparable. 

[Mice!]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I’m suggesting with three more weeks of the current restrictions we should see the flattening and dipping trend across the country.

I’ve been looking at that site for weeks but the numbers are not always comparable. 

After another 3 weeks something could be possible, but while people flout the lockdown I think it could drag on.

And they are saying that the deaths in care homes haven't been included so the numbers will jump up again when they are added.

We are always 2 weeks away from the peak it seems.

[Mice!]

People were still driving to the Lakes according to the police at the weekend,  a thousand parties broken up over Easter weekend.

This is why I feel a serious lockdown is needed, let people work if it's safe, but unnecessary travel,  social distancing not being followed needs clamping down on,  enough being nice and explaining to people why they need to stay apart, anyone who hasn't heard the message must have been on the moon.

A serious two or three weeks on lockdown should hopefully help the NHS get on top of things, it won't be popular but its probably necessary.

[AVB]

23 minutes ago, Mice! said:

People were still driving to the Lakes according to the police at the weekend,  a thousand parties broken up over Easter weekend.

This is why I feel a serious lockdown is needed, let people work if it's safe, but unnecessary travel,  social distancing not being followed needs clamping down on,  enough being nice and explaining to people why they need to stay apart, anyone who hasn't heard the message must have been on the moon.

A serious two or three weeks on lockdown should hopefully help the NHS get on top of things, it won't be popular but its probably necessary.

But the NHS is on top of things. Plenty of spare ICU beds. Very few patients at the London Nightingale hospital, none yet in Birmingham. The lockdown was to buy the NHS time which they have used well.  Relax the lockdown. 

[Mice!]

I've never expected the Nightingale hospitals to be needed, I see them as planning for the worst case scenario,  if the brown hits the fan. If they hadn't been built and were needed then questions would be asked why not.

No one should die of poverty in this country in this day and age,  things might well be a lot tighter though for a few years for many.

 

[AVB]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I've never expected the Nightingale hospitals to be needed, I see them as planning for the worst case scenario,  if the brown hits the fan. If they hadn't been built and were needed then questions would be asked why not.

No one should die of poverty in this country in this day and age,  things might well be a lot tighter though for a few years for many.

 

The reason for the lockdown was to flatten the curve and enable the NHS to cope (by reducing demand and building capacity) in order to keep the demand within the number of ICU beds. That was reiterated again and again.  It was never about reducing deaths other than those extra deaths that would have occurred if we ran out of ICU beds.  Those that will die with C-19 will die with it either now or slightly later. 

We’ve got the capacity so I can’t see the valid argument to not start relaxing. 

[AVB]

3rd May my sources tell me. They have been known to be wrong before but right 75% of the time. 

[old man]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

People were still driving to the Lakes according to the police at the weekend,  a thousand parties broken up over Easter weekend.

This is why I feel a serious lockdown is needed, let people work if it's safe, but unnecessary travel,  social distancing not being followed needs clamping down on,  enough being nice and explaining to people why they need to stay apart, anyone who hasn't heard the message must have been on the moon.

A serious two or three weeks on lockdown should hopefully help the NHS get on top of things, it won't be popular but its probably necessary.

Good job HS2 not in operation yet?

[Raja Clavata]

8 hours ago, AVB said:

The reason for the lockdown was to flatten the curve and enable the NHS to cope (by reducing demand and building capacity) in order to keep the demand within the number of ICU beds. That was reiterated again and again.  It was never about reducing deaths other than those extra deaths that would have occurred if we ran out of ICU beds.  Those that will die with C-19 will die with it either now or slightly later. 

We’ve got the capacity so I can’t see the valid argument to not start relaxing. 

Precisely this. It was always stated that a fine line needed to be walked between not swamping the NHS and not completely tanking the economy.

We are seeing some people flouting the rules but I'm sure the vast majority are following them.

As far as I can tell nobody here is asking for everything to be relaxed, we'd just like some outline plan for when it is feasible.

Just seen Hancock on the BBC, he's saying that not enough people are going forward for testing and that the capacity today is 25k. He also refused to engage in any discussion on the exit strategy, perhaps because he thinks some will try to jump ahead of the curve but that feels like an incredible disjustice to the rest of us.

58 minutes ago, old man said:

Good job HS2 not in operation yet?

Surely, in hindsight and given that we haven't hit ICU capacity, it would have been better if all regions in the UK hit the peak, flattened the curve at the same time and allowed us all to start getting back to normal as early as possible?

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

perhaps because he thinks some will try to jump ahead of the curve but that feels like an incredible disjustice to the rest of us.

Not if you had seen the way the Cyclepaths have been behaving round our way, even during the lockdown they have been out in groups of 8+, the only difference is they are strung out at 2.5m intervals.  Social distancing yes - groups of more than 2 definitely not. 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

Not if you had seen the way the Cyclepaths have been behaving round our way, even during the lockdown they have been out in groups of 8+, the only difference is they are strung out at 2.5m intervals.  Social distancing yes - groups of more than 2 definitely not. 

Again, you are citing the exception, not the rule and if these people on bikes were proper cyclists then they'd be aware of the British Cycling guidelines which show the required safe distances for various speeds - 2.5m isn't "safe" unless you are demounted walking beside your bike. So in a way you are highlighting part of the issue - normal people like you and me misinterpreting the guideline.

Whilst I wouldn't ride in a group of more than two at present, technically if there are distanced by the appropriate amount then are they actually not in a group?

The point though is surely that there are elements of people not following the rules and that will always be the case, the majority are and that is why the government haven't hardened the restrictions.

Out of interest do you have any other examples not involving cyclists?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Raja Clavata

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Out of interest do you have any other examples not involving cyclists

I have to take it from what I see on a daily basis where I am. Following the first "voluntary" weekend where every "entitled idiot" and his wife total ignored the situation and the village and around was the busiest I have seen it in 35 years, not counting Mayday and Show day.  The biker groups going to/from Matlock Bath at the weekends have disappeared, and the large walking groups (we would normally get as many as 5 a week at this time of year using the village car park) are conspicuous  by their absence.  The only groups of more than 2 seen are parents with children.

So, in answer to your question no, the only ones flouting the situation are cyclists, both lycra clad road riders (some in club "uniform") and the off road mud munching groups.

[stumfelter]

Just out of interest why do cyclists feel the need to go out mob handed?

[Raja Clavata]

11 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

I have to take it from what I see on a daily basis where I am. Following the first "voluntary" weekend where every "entitled idiot" and his wife total ignored the situation and the village and around was the busiest I have seen it in 35 years, not counting Mayday and Show day.  The biker groups going to/from Matlock Bath at the weekends have disappeared, and the large walking groups (we would normally get as many as 5 a week at this time of year using the village car park) are conspicuous  by their absence.  The only groups of more than 2 seen are parents with children.

So, in answer to your question no, the only ones flouting the situation are cyclists, both lycra clad road riders (some in club "uniform") and the off road mud munching groups.

Very ill judged if they are riding in groups with club kit on - even if in pairs it's not a good idea at present. If I was you I'd be noting the names of the clubs and contacting them, if no response post pics up on facebook or other social media. I object to widespread and blanket vilification of cyclists but if people are breaking the rules they need to be brought to task - if they are advertising their origins as they do it then more fool them 👍

3 minutes ago, stumfelter said:

Just out of interest why do cyclists feel the need to go out mob handed?

Generally speaking because of safety in numbers, an imbecile on 8kg of plastic is no match for an imbecile sat in 1500kg of steel.

Personally speaking - I've experienced more verbal abuse when riding in a group than alone but nearly all the physical abuse comes when cycling alone (objects thrown from passengers windows, normally items of food or drinks cans / bottles).

[Yellow Bear]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Very ill judged if they are riding in groups with club kit on - even if in pairs it's not a good idea at present. If I was you I'd be noting the names of the clubs and contacting them, if no response post pics up on facebook or other social media. I object to widespread and blanket vilification of cyclists but if people are breaking the rules they need to be brought to task - if they are advertising their origins as they do it then more fool them

The groups (some as many as 20+) are a regular thing. mostly in the summer months and not just at weekends either, so I don't fancy a wrecked car or other vandalism by doing what you suggest.  The last local that did suffered for it in damage and intimidation.  It is the groups attitude that creates the "widespread and blanket vilification of cyclists",  when you have lost 40 min behind a group on Beeley hill whilst dodging the " imbecile on 8kg of plastic" coming down the hill again at 30+ mph on a bendy road with inadequate brakes you would be hard pressed not to have the same view.

[oldypigeonpopper]

45 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

I have to take it from what I see on a daily basis where I am. Following the first "voluntary" weekend where every "entitled idiot" and his wife total ignored the situation and the village and around was the busiest I have seen it in 35 years, not counting Mayday and Show day.  The biker groups going to/from Matlock Bath at the weekends have disappeared, and the large walking groups (we would normally get as many as 5 a week at this time of year using the village car park) are conspicuous  by their absence.  The only groups of more than 2 seen are parents with children.

So, in answer to your question no, the only ones flouting the situation are cyclists, both lycra clad road riders (some in club "uniform") and the off road mud munching groups.

hello, i can see why it gets so busy sometimes what a beautiful part of England, just done a google😀

Edited April 16, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper