Deaths

[clangerman]

won’t take long to see how the big rush back to normal takes to become the biggest disaster yet scotland’s numbers fall ours RISE nobody needs a egg head to know what that means MISTAKE! 

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Sweden appears to be the game in town to follow, but we only know that now with Hindsight and Sweden took the big gamble at the time.

Thing is Sweden is a very different country to ours, I read something saying that half the people there live alone so one person in a property, they had just come out of their winter as well so people hadn't been mingling the same.

8 minutes ago, Mungler said:

No one understands (because it has not been felt) that the poverty that will be caused by this over the next decade will claim more lives and from much wider demographics and people who haven’t yet lived a life.

I still don't get this comment and its been said a few times, things are going to be tight for a lot of people but I cant see people starving. 

Maybe people will just have to live within their means for a change?

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

won’t take long to see how the big rush back to normal takes to become the biggest disaster yet scotland’s numbers fall ours RISE nobody needs a egg head to know what that means MISTAKE! 

Have you seen Scotland's numbers compared to ours? Like chalk and cheese.

[clangerman]

yes for everyone running them down the last laugh will be theirs at OUR expense 

[toontastic]

13 minutes ago, clangerman said:

won’t take long to see how the big rush back to normal takes to become the biggest disaster yet scotland’s numbers fall ours RISE nobody needs a egg head to know what that means MISTAKE! 

WHO say covid 19 may never go away, scientists say a viable vaccine may never be found. I tell you what let's all stay on lockdown until a) it goes away b) a viable vaccine is found.  I mean a proper lockdown like the one you'd have where you would shoot people in the street no questions asked. Then we will see how screwed up everything will be. We already have people saying they shouldn't have to go back to work without a vaccine being available.

Edited May 13, 2020 by toontastic

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

yes for everyone running them down the last laugh will be theirs at OUR expense 

There is a massive difference in population, that's why there is such a difference,  never mind the totally different geography. 

[clangerman]

Just now, toontastic said:

WHO say covid 19 may never go away, scientists say a viable vaccine may never be found. I tell you what let's all stay on lockdown until a) it goes away b) a viable vaccine is found.  I mean a proper lockdown like the one you'd have where you would shoot people in the street no questions asked. Then we will see how screwed up everything will be.

let’s not be hasty shooting them for no reason would be bad form at least hear their excuse  

[Mice!]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

let’s not be hasty shooting them for no reason would be bad form at least hear their excuse  

They were pigeon shooting??

[clangerman]

Just now, Mice! said:

They were pigeon shooting??

ha ha good shout obviously essential work free to continue sir thank you for your time 

[toontastic]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

let’s not be hasty shooting them for no reason would be bad form at least hear their excuse  

You'd make a great politician, you go on and on about remaining on lockdown. Then you go on about going out shooting is ok because what harm can sitting in a field by yourself do.

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, toontastic said:

You'd make a great politician, you go on and on about remaining on lockdown. Then you go on about going out shooting is ok because what harm can sitting in a field by yourself do.

if you like to point out the harm sitting in a empty field i would be most interested as i don’t see any 

[Gordon R]

Quote

if you like to point out the harm sitting in a empty field i would be most interested as i don’t see any 

In terms of just you - I don't see the harm. However, it might well encourage others to come up with their own "alone in a field" scenario, which could lead to almost everyone totally ignoring the lockdown.

Lockdown seems to apply to others, never the poster.

Despite the odd one disputing Mungler's view, it is a very serious matter. When firms go to the wall, reluctant staff will no longer be on furlough from work, they will be unemployed. I don't think that a fair number of the public have thought this through.

 

[toontastic]

Just now, clangerman said:

if you like to point out the harm sitting in a empty field i would be most interested as i don’t see any 

There's no harm  I've been out shooting myself . But you won't shut up and stop whining about the lifting of restrictions. So tell me what's the difference between shooting in a field by yourself, fishing by yourself or playing golf with a member of your household. I'll give you the answer you don't fish or play golf. You obviously think it's ok for you to do what you want and screw the rest.

[clangerman]

apart from family and the dog my life is the most important as for whining i’m just as sick of those crying to end lockdown when funerals become a social event trust me you soon realise how worthless a few quid is have to leave you with this as i’m of to bed but thanks for your opinion 

[zipdog]

8 minutes ago, toontastic said:

There's no harm  I've been out shooting myself . But you won't shut up and stop whining about the lifting of restrictions. So tell me what's the difference between shooting in a field by yourself, fishing by yourself or playing golf with a member of your household. I'll give you the answer you don't fish or play golf. You obviously think it's ok for you to do what you want and screw the rest.

I have always maintained the opinion that anyone who can justify the legal criteria of shooting pigeons under the general licence was within the rules of the lockdown to continue to do. 

Pest control is essential to agriculture. Anyone claiming it isn’t in their instance shouldn’t be shooting after the lockdown as that too would be a direct breach of the general licence. If alternatives work then they must be used.

Therefore when there is no other option but to shoot the pests, it is essential to agriculture, otherwise there would be no justification for the shooting in the first place!

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by zipdog

[toontastic]

7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

In terms of just you - I don't see the harm. However, it might well encourage others to come up with their own "alone in a field" scenario, which could lead to almost everyone totally ignoring the lockdown.

Lockdown seems to apply to others, never the poster.

Despite the odd one disputing Mungler's view, it is a very serious matter. When firms go to the wall, reluctant staff will no longer be on furlough from work, they will be unemployed. I don't think that a fair number of the public have thought this through.

 

There was some union rep talking today saying the economy was irrelevant and shouldn't be in the equation. They followed it up by saying it shouldn't be up to the public to cover the cost through tax rises it should be up to the government to pay.

5 minutes ago, zipdog said:

I have always maintained the opinion that anyone who can justify the legal criteria of shooting pigeons under the general licence was within the rules of the lockdown to continue to do. 

Pest control is essential to agriculture. Anyone claiming it isn’t in their instance shouldn’t be shooting after the lockdown as that too would be a direct breach of the general licence. If alternatives work then they must be used.

 

 

My comment wasn't about the rights and wrongs of shooting during lockdown, it was about someone finding shooting ok but objecting to easing of restrictions to allow other sportsmen to indulge.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, treetree said:

Which is what angers me; our 'solution' was to have locked up healthy people for whom the risk is very low, and ruin an economy, while providing little protection for those most likely to die from the virus.

This has been my belief throughout - the care home figures for Europe were several weeks ahead of us and nobody in authority took notice.

It's not just care homes, plenty people who were admitted to hospital for other conditions caught COVID and died. 

[Raja Clavata]

45 minutes ago, clangerman said:

won’t take long to see how the big rush back to normal takes to become the biggest disaster yet scotland’s numbers fall ours RISE nobody needs a egg head to know what that means MISTAKE! 

The disaster isn't the number of deaths, it's the economic impact associated with shutting down the economy for relatively few deaths and in the case of deaths of people otherwise fit and healthy it's very very few deaths indeed. Do the math, it's mindblowing...

[Newbie to this]

24 minutes ago, toontastic said:

There was some union rep talking today saying the economy was irrelevant and shouldn't be in the equation. They followed it up by saying it shouldn't be up to the public to cover the cost through tax rises it should be up to the government to pay.

 And where do they think Governments get money.

 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

apart from family and the dog my life is the most important as for whining i’m just as sick of those crying to end lockdown when funerals become a social event trust me you soon realise how worthless a few quid is have to leave you with this as i’m of to bed but thanks for your opinion 

People seem to be under the impression “oh I don’t mind having a few less quid as long as my 90 year old granny is safe”. They don’t seem to get that the economic disaster could be like nothing seen before or in people’s worst nightmares. Millions unemployed - 9-10 million, houses worth **** all, soup kitchens, breakdown of law and order etc. And you’ll still get people say “I’ll be ok as I can shoot and prepare a rabbit”. 

[Dave-G]

11 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

 

 

👍

Changes regarding the recording of confirmed and suspected CV19 deaths came into effect on the 26/03/20 in amendment to the Coronavirus act 2020

(Below) From the British Medical Association (BMA) 

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2324/bma-verification-of-death-vod-april-2020.pdf

 

Certification of Death After a death has been verified, a certificate (Medical Certificate of Cause of Death – MCCD) must be completed and submitted to the local registrar of births, marriages and deaths. The certificate must be completed by a doctor who is registered (including temporary registration) and licensed to practice with the GMC. In addition to other details required on the certificate, the doctor must provide to the best of their knowledge and belief a cause of death. The cause entered is a matter of clinical judgement, determined by weighing up the patient’s recent and past medical history and the circumstances of their death. When a doctor cannot reasonably give a likely cause of death the case must be submitted to the coroner for investigation which may include a post-mortem examination of the body to establish a cause of death. Under COVID-19 arrangements, where the GP has completed the MCCD, it will be emailed to the registrar’s office, rather than being collected from the surgery. In those cases where the doctor is confident on medical grounds that a particular cause of death is likely then that should be entered on the MCCD. COVID-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the MCCD, even without the results of a positive test, and it is important that likely COVID-19 deaths are reported as such via the registrar. The rules surrounding the completion of the MCCD have changed following the Coronavirus

Hope this helps

 

 

This sounds like another media frenzy scandal ready to break. 

Is anyone good at the numbers game able to find out how many 'other reasons' deaths have mysteriously gone away over say the last month because its easier and cheaper to list a death as CV?

I'm not being crass when I say I understand how a death is a death is a death that still boils down to someone passing over to the other side. MSM will make a meal of it if or when it emerges.

[Vince Green]

6 hours ago, AVB said:

I am not sure this is correct Vince. I thought a post mortem was only required if it was referred by doctor to coroner (likely suspicious circumstances or after recent surgery) or if requested by hospital in order to aid research. If you drop dead from a heart attack and a doctor is satisfied that it wasn’t suspicious then he wouldn’t refer to the coroner and a post mortem wouldn’t be carried out. 
 

Doesn't explain why they are blaming Covid though. 

If a person dies that hasn't been seen by a doctor in the 14 days prior to the death it must be reported to the coroner by law. That's why they are putting covid on the death certificate because since 26/3/20 they are not having to refer covid deaths.

Which deaths must be reported to the Coroner?

About half of all deaths are not reported to the Coroner at all, as a doctor is able to provide a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death.  This is a document which allows the death to be registered.  There are strict rules governing when a doctor may do this.  They must know what illness caused the patient's death and must have seen and treated them for that illness within the 14 days before they died.  These rules are in place to safeguard patients and ensure that death reporting and registration is accurate.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Vince Green

[Mungler]

This is an easy and quick read which nails the key points:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-tale-of-two-epidemics-scientists-in-sweden-and-the-uk-fight-over-who-took-the-right-public-health-path/2020/05/07/104f60be-8a5b-11ea-80df-d24b35a568ae_story.html

 

[Mice!]

8 hours ago, toontastic said:

There was some union rep talking today saying the economy was irrelevant and shouldn't be in the equation. They followed it up by saying it shouldn't be up to the public to cover the cost through tax rises it should be up to the government to pay.

My comment wasn't about the rights and wrongs of shooting during lockdown, it was about someone finding shooting ok but objecting to easing of restrictions to allow other sportsmen to indulge.

I hope your not suggesting a union rep believes in magic money trees? Where else does the government get its money other than taxes? And he'll want his members to have a pay rise this year as well no doubt?

 

There was something on last night saying the bank of England will issue more money and be in no rush to get it back,  not sure how that works but its obviously to keep things moving. 

[Raja Clavata]

55 minutes ago, Mungler said:

This is an easy and quick read which nails the key points:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-tale-of-two-epidemics-scientists-in-sweden-and-the-uk-fight-over-who-took-the-right-public-health-path/2020/05/07/104f60be-8a5b-11ea-80df-d24b35a568ae_story.html

 

Another road leading back to Dr Fergusons "Gold Standard" model which it turns out is a steaming pile of manure (at best).

Badly written software has crashed a few things over the years but the global economy is a new one as far as I'm aware....

[SpringDon]

7 hours ago, AVB said:

People seem to be under the impression “oh I don’t mind having a few less quid as long as my 90 year old granny is safe”. They don’t seem to get that the economic disaster could be like nothing seen before or in people’s worst nightmares. Millions unemployed - 9-10 million, houses worth **** all, soup kitchens, breakdown of law and order etc. And you’ll still get people say “I’ll be ok as I can shoot and prepare a rabbit”. 

It’ll be fine, just furlough everybody until there’s a vaccine. No body should have to work in this apocalypse (except health, utilities, online shops and supermarkets).

Its not going away and people will die, that’s not very nice and it seems a lot of people can’t accept that developed countries can be humbled in this way.

The new antibody test will hopefully answer the question about how many have had it with mild symptoms. Perhaps the mortality will prove to be a lot lower than currently believed.