Scully Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, lancer425 said: Shooters are never united, its the same the world over. The NRA in the states Charlton Heston etc. some just love to hate and haters are going to hate. BASC bashing is not new its been around for years, even though 90% here were never involved or even born in the WAGBI days, imagining they are looking over their shoulder at some halcyon days of yore when WAGBI ruled the waves. Real fact is WAGBI as an organisation could never have held a candle to BASC on a bad day never mind a good one. BASC if perfect or not"pick your poison"Are where we are at today. WE have nothing else to offer, If they are powerless we are powerless full stop. No sudden rallying call from any other organisation in existence or in the planning today is going to fight out corner better than BASC today. There really is no other practical up and running cab in town. The political scene now is complex, and we a minority sport of a controversial nature that is in itself hard to defend, has a lot of ground to make up in the PR stakes to appease the rank and file out there looking in at us. BASC has tried to change hearts and minds, as others in shooting have dome too, we as a community have some little victories , but these are just skirmishes nothing that could ever be described as a decisive battle . The BASC NAY sayers amaze me, its an organisation openly run as far as it needs to both from a legal standpoint and yet retaining its privacy to carry out political manoeuvres to combat challenges to our sport. BUT OH NO! These people want everything out there in the open on show for everyone to see ,plonked neatly here on pigeon watch so they can pick the bones out of it. Tell me one business that ever does this or ever could, how can they be competitive with the challenges they face, when the oposition knows their very next move in advance. ? i hope one day soon these people will wake up and realise, we all need BASC they are vital for our future. There just is not one other option out there to be the voice of shooting in the uk today. The I’ll agree shooters need an organisation to represent us, but when that representation is felt to be lacking, then what’s the point? You can’t expect people to continue funding an ineffective organisation just because it’s all they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, Scully said: I’ll agree shooters need an organisation to represent us, but when that representation is felt to be lacking, then what’s the point? You can’t expect people to continue funding an ineffective organisation just because it’s all they have. Then if they feel its infective, they must change it. its possible with BASC. Not funding it is just removing it and that wont work any better than having it fail them. get active change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Then if they feel its infective, they must change it. its possible with BASC. Not funding it is just removing it and that wont work any better than having it fail them. get active change it. How much more active do we need to be? If a representative from the BASC was to read the recent threads on this forum with interest, perhaps they would understand the level of disconnect between the organisation and its members and do something to address the issues. Alas, representatives from the BASC have read the recent threads, and have decided to do nothing about it. I will not continue to fund an organisation that treats its members with such disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Quote How much more active do we need to be? If a representative from the BASC was to read the recent threads on this forum with interest, perhaps they would understand the level of disconnect between the organisation and its members and do something to address the issues. Alas, representatives from the BASC have read the recent threads, and have decided to do nothing about it. I will not continue to fund an organisation that treats its members with such disregard. Can't disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Cannon said: How much more active do we need to be? If a representative from the BASC was to read the recent threads on this forum with interest, perhaps they would understand the level of disconnect between the organisation and its members and do something to address the issues. Alas, representatives from the BASC have read the recent threads, and have decided to do nothing about it. I will not continue to fund an organisation that treats its members with such disregard. All very general criticisms, with no real content. Its simply not possible to please everybody, and its not realistic to expect basc or any such organisation to have every answer to all of shootings woes. BASC can do what they can do, they are not a political power have no government role. but they can be rthere to represent us and help where they can. Many of the problems associated with BASC are not acctualy prob lems at all just gripes and moans from a few. the whole lead shot plaswad thing. look at that for heavens sake. LIES. BASC were not lieing. But the cartridge companies issued a statement and WOW! BASC were beneth contempt. years until wads could be made? No they are showing up for sale now. SO i ask you who was lieing then? BASC got criticism over not knowing about the GLs going to be pulled. What do they need to employ then a line up of gypsy rose lees, or psychic mediums. . ? . Its unrealistic to expect them to know everything, and criticism is fine, but we need actual cases of falliure , but even then, its not everyone who feels its failiure in the first instance. Gripers of BASC are the same usual suspects on here, and how much of the criticism stacks up if any, and how much close scrutiny will it withstand. take the cartridge firm denial as an example. BASC bashing is popular they know that we all know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Then if they feel its infective, they must change it. its possible with BASC. Not funding it is just removing it and that wont work any better than having it fail them. get active change it. It isn’t possible at all to change BASC from within; I’ve been on enough committees in my time to know that. It’s a closed shop with no time for dissent, hence the NGO. Swifty, with his usual arrogant dismissal of opposition, told them they ‘wouldn’t last a month’, and so was born yet another shooting organisation, which fractured funds and support even further. They can’t fight or even mount a ‘hearts and minds’ campaign because of the nature of what we do, so all they can do is lobby, which while being of utmost importance, is of no consequence when it repeatedly fails. Add to that the disdain with which they seem to regard their membership, then what else can they expect? Loyalty? Perhaps BASC could conduct a poll to enquire just what it is their membership would like them to do.....but they would undoubtedly be told something they didn’t want to hear, so what would be the point? I’ll admit I benefit from any effective lobbying, but I paid into BASC’s coffers for years, yet as a shooter feel I’ve lost more both on a personal and representational level than ever before, and it’s still ongoing. I can get a similar level of representation for a fraction of the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Scully said: It isn’t possible at all to change BASC from within; I’ve been on enough committees in my time to know that. It’s a closed shop with no time for dissent, hence the NGO. Swifty, with his usual arrogant dismissal of opposition, told them they ‘wouldn’t last a month’, and so was born yet another shooting organisation, which fractured funds and support even further. They can’t fight or even mount a ‘hearts and minds’ campaign because of the nature of what we do, so all they can do is lobby, which while being of utmost importance, is of no consequence when it repeatedly fails. Add to that the disdain with which they seem to regard their membership, then what else can they expect? Loyalty? Perhaps BASC could conduct a poll to enquire just what it is their membership would like them to do.....but they would undoubtedly be told something they didn’t want to hear, so what would be the point? I’ll admit I benefit from any effective lobbying, but I paid into BASC’s coffers for years, yet as a shooter feel I’ve lost more both on a personal and representational level than ever before, and it’s still ongoing. I can get a similar level of representation for a fraction of the cost. Look debating history is fine swift this not so swift John swift its all history, we can not changer it we can not do anything about it now. Then is then now is now. AND NOW! we got trouble . we need to draw a line in the sand and move on, nothing ever to be gained by digging over the past, we all got skeletons in cupboards, BASC is real life, its got people in it its bound to have faults somewhere. Stop picking old scabs leave them heal or they will scar believe me. We have to get with BASC, we dont have another horse to ride, and forget any promised foals, the mare is not even in foal yet. BASC get with them. We have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 The vast majority of "BASC Bashers" are ex members who are so unhappy with the situation they have decided to go elsewhere for their shooting protection as BASC do not seem to be doing enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Look debating history is fine swift this not so swift John swift its all history, we can not changer it we can not do anything about it now. Then is then now is now. AND NOW! we got trouble . we need to draw a line in the sand and move on, nothing ever to be gained by digging over the past, we all got skeletons in cupboards, BASC is real life, its got people in it its bound to have faults somewhere. Stop picking old scabs leave them heal or they will scar believe me. We have to get with BASC, we dont have another horse to ride, and forget any promised foals, the mare is not even in foal yet. BASC get with them. We have to. You can judge BASC on either their history or what they’re doing currently, neither look good to me. An alarming lack of regard for their membership in the past, against what......an alarming lack of regard for their membership currently? You get with them; I was with them for long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said: The vast majority of "BASC Bashers" are ex members who are so unhappy with the situation they have decided to go elsewhere for their shooting protection as BASC do not seem to be doing enough! Do not seem? Thats not exactly conclusive is it. This is what i mean, we do not seem to have any real meat on the plate here. and even if we did, and they WERE WRONG. What of it. what other option have we got, its not an ideal situation for the dissenchaned in our midst. But perhaps looking a bit more at the real facts, with a slightly less hard line attitude, could show that things perhaps were not really quite as bad as first thought. 1 minute ago, Scully said: You can judge BASC on either their history or what they’re doing currently, neither look good to me. An alarming lack of regard for their membership in the past, against what......an alarming lack of regard for their membership currently? You get with them; I was with them for long enough. What are they doing now that is WRONG?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, lancer425 said: Do not seem? Thats not exactly conclusive is it. This is what i mean, we do not seem to have any real meat on the plate here. and even if we did, and they WERE WRONG. What of it. what other option have we got, its not an ideal situation for the dissenchaned in our midst. But perhaps looking a bit more at the real facts, with a slightly less hard line attitude, could show that things perhaps were not really quite as bad as first thought. Can I send you some rose tinted spectacles or do you already wear a pair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said: Can I send you some rose tinted spectacles or do you already wear a pair? No i am genuinely trying to understand the problem your seeing with BASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, lancer425 said: i am genuinely trying to understand the problem your seeing with BASC Have you not read the past 11 pages? You've either lost plot, or just don't know what you're talking about 😂 Give it up, yours wasting your time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, lancer425 said: What are they doing now that is WRONG?. You first. You told us they were fighting now, and I asked in what way. In what way are they fighting now that is of benefit to their membership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottletopbill Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 I spoke to Angela from BASC on Friday afternoon regarding issues being raised on the forum Angela informed me that members of BASC had read some of the comments. So lets let them have meetings and then see what they have to come back with it does take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, Rewulf said: Have you not read the past 11 pages? You've either lost plot, or just don't know what you're talking about 😂 Give it up, yours wasting your time here. your being silly again. 11v pages of no fact just gripeing about a organisation managing its money for the greater good. pruning where there is little uptake and half that taken on. Its not me who needs to give up is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, lancer425 said: your* being silly again *You're 2 minutes ago, lancer425 said: 11v pages of no fact Are you on recreational drugs or something 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scully said: You first. You told us they were fighting now, and I asked in what way. In what way are they fighting now that is of benefit to their membership? I know they are currently involved with the Natural England wild fowling consents issues. 6 minutes ago, bottletopbill said: I spoke to Angela from BASC on Friday afternoon regarding issues being raised on the forum Angela informed me that members of BASC had read some of the comments. So lets let them have meetings and then see what they have to come back with it does take time. It is a fact patience is a virtue. , some on here could gain from. 3 minutes ago, Rewulf said: *You're Are you on recreational drugs or something 🤣 Yep your silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottletopbill Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 No not on drugs as i work with Vulnerable children who's parents have drink or drugs problems. Will leave BASC if they do not come up with some thing and as many others are will be looking at other choices. Just looking out for the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeydredd Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, matone said: Perhaps decent shooting people didn`t feel as intimidated at that point in time .Things have become much more abrasive towards us since then ! The particular insurance that has been withdrawn only relates to challenges to Police forces regarding FAC/SGC though, it has nothing to do with the escalation of anti-shooting sentiment. 23 hours ago, Newbie to this said: What's your point. I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question. 🤪🤪🤪 Edited July 12, 2020 by Mickeydredd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, lancer425 said: Yep your silly *You're Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: *You're YOUR a star, such valuable input here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, lancer425 said: YOUR a star, such valuable input here. YOU'RE! Jesus christ 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, Rewulf said: YOU'RE! Jesus christ 🤣 YOUR blaspheming now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 46 minutes ago, Mickeydredd said: I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question. 🤪🤪🤪 Yeah, but what is the point of the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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