UK government initiatives and the recession

[Lloyd90]

14 hours ago, mel b3 said:

 

Too late , you already had a nibble 😅.

Very good  

[discobob]

7 minutes ago, henry d said:

Could you not sign your house over to the kids?

not within 7 years I believe - if the house is signed over and then your parent dies or goes into long term care 2 years later it is still classed as part of the estate - even if said house has been sold

[Lloyd90]

7 minutes ago, henry d said:

Could you not sign your house over to the kids?

 

Some do, or put them into trusts. 
 

Most people linger along not actually doing anything but talking or thinking about it, constantly putting it off thinking they have plenty of time.

 

Then they have a fall, or a stroke, or any number of complications and it’s too late. 
 

And trust me families get very angry or annoyed when they find out the house just doesn’t automatically become theres when Mum or Dad go into a care home... it might be theirs in the will but that doesn’t mean much if their care home fees swallow up the entire amount. 
 

 

On one hand people have saved all their lives and I imagine some of them want to pass that saving / their home onto their family. 
 

On the other hand, you essentially have someone who owns a home that they don’t live in, it’s an asset. It’s worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, and they and their families want the tax payer to fund their care fees so that they can keep their wealth to give to their kids... 

[dodgy dave]

17 hours ago, mel b3 said:

Sssshhh. I'm waiting for the screaming to start 😅😅😅.

Another good earner for the government would be to claim the estate of anyone that dies , the dead person won't be needing it , and let's be honest  , plenty of oldies have already taken off the covid runway , and if the government is to be believed , plenty more will be heading that way this winter . If the oldie leaves a husband or wife behind ,the powers that be could just whip them off to an OAP home , that would soon see them on their way.👌.

yes and all bin men should supply there own dust cart

[discobob]

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Some do, or put them into trusts. 
 

Most people linger along not actually doing anything but talking or thinking about it, constantly putting it off thinking they have plenty of time.

 

Then they have a fall, or a stroke, or any number of complications and it’s too late. 
 

And trust me families get very angry or annoyed when they find out the house just doesn’t automatically become theres when Mum or Dad go into a care home... it might be theirs in the will but that doesn’t mean much if their care home fees swallow up the entire amount. 
 

 

On one hand people have saved all their lives and I imagine some of them want to pass that saving / their home onto their family. 
 

On the other hand, you essentially have someone who owns a home that they don’t live in, it’s an asset. It’s worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, and they and their families want the tax payer to fund their care fees so that they can keep their wealth to give to their kids... 

I don't expect to get anything off my mother - but that is because she is a vindictive female dog! If she passes I believe it is being left to Christies hospital - if she ends up in care it passes to the council

[amateur]

15 minutes ago, henry d said:

Could you not sign your house over to the kids?

As written above, the councils who fund care homes are very clued up on disposal of assets. 

My parents were in sheltered accomodation, in their 90s, with apparently enough funds to see them out at their then rate of expenditure. At that time, Father gave the grandchildren  a substantial cash gift.

Mother suffered a fall, became bed bound and needed care which Father was too incapable to provide and my sister, who lived locally to them, failed to provide. The net outcome was that Mother was rushed to hospital with pneumonia and bedsores and needed long term nursing care. When it became apparent what had happened, I transferred them to a very nice care home local to us and funded it by selling their sheltered accomodation flat. The flat proceeds ran out within 18 months, so the only option was to move them to a council funded care home. The council questioned the grandchildren distribution and tried to recover it (all spent some 3 years earlier).

Fortunately I was able to demonstrate that, when the gifts were made, their cash flow projections and circumstances were that the gifts were not intended to deprive the council.

It is tough getting old!

[blackbird]

31 minutes ago, discobob said:

not within 7 years I believe - if the house is signed over and then your parent dies or goes into long term care 2 years later it is still classed as part of the estate - even if said house has been sold

I am 99% Sure, but the 7years clause has now been closed basically you are ###### 

[Lloyd90]

41 minutes ago, discobob said:

not within 7 years I believe - if the house is signed over and then your parent dies or goes into long term care 2 years later it is still classed as part of the estate - even if said house has been sold

I was under the impression 7 years was for inheritance tax. 
 

Councils have rules under new deprivation of assets legislation or something. 
 

If they feel you have made moves to intentionally deprive yourself of assets to avoid paying care home fees then they can come after you. 

[blackbird]

10 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I was under the impression 7 years was for inheritance tax. 
 

Councils have rules under new deprivation of assets legislation or something. 
 

If they feel you have made moves to intentionally deprive yourself of assets to avoid paying care home fees then they can come after you. 

Yes that is my understanding, if you own a home & have savings once you get late 50s your best bet is to sell up, rent a small place & blow the lot before the government get their hands on it.

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by blackbird

[discobob]

 

57 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Yes that is my understanding, if you own a home & have savings once you get late 50s your best bet is to sell up, rent a small place & blow the lot before the government get their hands on it.

 

Time to get a new mattress!! What are the new notes like to sleep on 😆

[dodgy dave]

there to slippy you keep falling out of bed

[discobob]

2 minutes ago, dodgy dave said:

there to slippy you keep falling out of bed

Dodgy by name - dodgy by nature 🤣

[dodgy dave]

oi pack that in😎

[discobob]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Yes that is my understanding, if you own a home & have savings once you get late 50s your best bet is to sell up, rent a small place & blow the lot before the government get their hands on it.

 

Just read an Age UK - basically from reading it - if you are in good health at the time and you can not foresee needing care then this can be used to get out of it - its time I develop a scratch card and alcohol addiction!!! 😉

[henry d]

I'll get some professional advice then. We are due to move soon possibly our last move, and were going to sign it over to our only daughter, might have to rethink it.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

I'll get some professional advice then. We are due to move soon possibly our last move, and were going to sign it over to our only daughter, might have to rethink it.

You would be right to get advice.  It is a complex issue - and one on which the law changes

For inheritance tax - things are fairly straightforward, a 'potentially exempt transfer' becomes fully exempt from inheritance tax after 7 years, but there is a sliding reduction from year 2 to year 7.  However - if you have transferred something - you cannot retain a 'beneficial interest'.  For example - if you give your house to your children, you cannot continue to live there - except on fully 'commercial terms' - and that has to be legally provable and watertight.

For care/care home costs, it is more complex and done (in England anyway) by the local authorities.  It may be different in Scotland?  It is made worse because the care homes effectively 'fiddle the figures' so that beds paid for privately are charged more than those paid for by the local authority (who get a string of 'doscounts' - and in effect those paying for their own care are subsidising those paid for by the local authority.

[henry d]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

For care/care home costs, it is more complex and done (in England anyway) by the local authorities.  It may be different in Scotland? 

Many thanks for the reply. I will be moving back to England, my mother was in a care home for a couple of years before succumbing to a nasty type of dementia, however she had few assets so it was all taken care of by the social. 

We are both fit and healthy just into our 3 score and would, as most would, pass our assets onto our daughter but it looks like we will have to seek professional advice to get the most from our graft.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, henry d said:

We are both fit and healthy just into our 3 score and would, as most would, pass our assets onto our daughter but it looks like we will have to seek professional advice to get the most from our graft.

You should certainly seek advice.  It is (in my view) entirely right and proper that people should be able to save and pass the savings on to their family if they wish.  That is part of the sort of family values we should be promoting.   I personally believe that significant (i.e. far more than the 350K now allowed) should be allowed to be passed to family members free of any tax, because tax was paid when the money was earned in the first place. 

I am also just in my 3 score - and although I have no children, I do have nieces and a nephew who I would like to be able to help a bit.  Things that you can think of are that certain types of pension fund are outside the estate for inheritance tax, so possibly having less money tied in a house and add to any pension fund you may have might be advantageous?  Advice is essential.

Certainly, as you age - the general advice seems to be that if you are likely to be above the threshold at which you pay inheritance tax ....... plan early and gift any 'un-needed' assets to your children, hoping you live the full 7 years.  Pension fund is one possible way to have money 'outside your estate'.  The problem is that the law changes frequently - so long term planning is 'hit and miss'.  Another 'review' is likely in the near future - and you can bet it will hit the 'slightly well off' hardest, the so called poor - not at all, and the wealthy will have enough funds to avoid paying - just the lawyers and accountants will benefit.  The chancellor has to raise money and dead people don't get a vote.

On care costs - again things change - and are 'due for a review' - but what that will bring is uncertain.  Simply 'giving it away' does not put it beyond the reach of the local authority.  I believe that at present it is very hard/near impossible to legally avoid a bad 'hit' if you need to have care from an external source/home.

[discobob]

38 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

and you can bet it will hit the 'slightly well off' hardest, the so called poor - not at all, and the wealthy will have enough funds to avoid paying - just the lawyers and accountants will benefit

It does make you think why did I bother - when you have paid all your dues and worked all you life - there is a very good chance that you will be left with nothing sitting next to someone who has never worked and never paid a penny in!!

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, discobob said:

It does make you think why did I bother - when you have paid all your dues and worked all you life - there is a very good chance that you will be left with nothing sitting next to someone who has never worked and never paid a penny in!!

That is very true - and in some cases your fee that you pay for a 'privately funded place' will be used to subsidise an 'authority funded place'.

Despite the state encouraging everyone to 'save for a rainy day' and 'save for your old age' - they will take it from you in the end.  Just like Gordon Brown raiding peoples pensions.  https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1692321/Has-Labour-really-ransacked-our-pensions.html

and https://www.ftadviser.com/2014/05/07/opinion/tony-hazell/savers-could-have-lost-bn-in-brown-s-pensions-raid-WTQAjLW5DSRp9HUxwNZN7K/article.html

That's A LOT of money he has cost the pensioner.

Edited August 20, 2020 by JohnfromUK

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 19/08/2020 at 15:11, oowee said:

The stamp duty policy is a nonsense simply pushing prices and reducing receipts. Better to put the money into social housing. The recession is making mortgages harder to get and larger deposits required. The saviour will be inflation eating into debt both for those with a mortgage and for the government. I remember the spending proposals from Corbyn being laughed out of court on here and now we have Boris spending many more times the amount.

I know some firms that will make super profits this year as a result of furlough paying wages and the furlough bonus yet to come. It's the price to be paid for policy made on the hoof. 

Get rid of the cash and buy some assets?

Hello, what do you suggest ?

Edited August 20, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, we are suppose to be in a recession but house prices are booming and check out share prices, it's going to be a tough year for many and won't be any better in 2021, when we get to a stage in uk that covid 19 is met with a good 🥊I hope things will improve for one and all 

[oowee]

49 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, what do you suggest ?

For what? 

30 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, we are suppose to be in a recession but house prices are booming and check out share prices, it's going to be a tough year for many and won't be any better in 2021, when we get to a stage in uk that covid 19 is met with a good 🥊I hope things will improve for one and all 

Prices driven by the stamp duty relief together with pent up demand. Fingers crossed the recovery is super quick.

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

For what? 

Prices driven by the stamp duty relief together with pent up demand. Fingers crossed the recovery is super quick.

Hello, for an investment ? Let's hope so 👍

Edited August 20, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[enfieldspares]

On 20/08/2020 at 10:00, Lloyd90 said:

On the other hand, you essentially have someone who owns a home that they don’t live in, it’s an asset. It’s worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, and they and their families want the tax payer to fund their care fees so that they can keep their wealth to give to their kids... 

This. +1. It in fact made me quite angry that because I had looked after my mother, and had people help look after my mother, such that she was able to never go into a care home and in fact die aged ninety-four in her own home that I then was faced with the possibility of an £85,000 Inheritance Tax bill on my mother's house to pay to fund those referred to by LLOYD90 as above. It was only bu virtue of her being a War Widow and the tax rules associated with that that in fact that Inheritance Tax bill was zero. But yes else wise it would have been as above per LLOYD90.