JohnfromUK Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Gordon R said: Sadly, labour have been playing party politics at a time of national need. A good opposition knows when to back the national interest - such as the Falklands, Iraq, 9/11 and various terrorist incidents etc. Labour in recent times have been a poor opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I'd really like to see this all over, with as few deaths and severe illnesses as possible - and it seems to me that the precautions above are the fastest and least painful way of doing that - in that keep things within NHS capacity until a vaccine appears - hopefully Q1 next year. Sticking to the rules is the way forward but you need 'buy in' that comes from trust and confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 John - I have to agree. The country needs a proper opposition, who know when to oppose and when to support. Labour have nothing to offer, but negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 The only people I know that have had the virus have caught it from the pub or University. Obviously things are going to be tough now in Manchester but hopefully this will stop other areas doing the same, the rates are going up as are hospital admissions so tough action is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirokuMK70 Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 Tier 3 should have been imposed by central government a week ago when it was clear it was required and **** the local trotskys. Now every region that requires a lockdown will feel they have the right to argue, which makes a mockery of the whole system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 20, 2020 Report Share Posted October 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, MirokuMK70 said: Tier 3 should have been imposed by central government a week ago when it was clear it was required and **** the local trotskys. Now every region that requires a lockdown will feel they have the right to argue, which makes a mockery of the whole system. If Manchester had got the 75m they wanted then yes others would follow suit, but they have finished up in a much worse position than Liverpool and Lancashire, so I actually think what's happened will stop others being do damn awkward, yes look after your area, but not when dragging your feet is making things worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Did I hear correctly? Manchester is to get the full 60 million pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Did I hear correctly? Manchester is to get the full 60 million pounds. Yes, that seems to be the case - but not routed through Burnham - instead directly to local councils/boroughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 As a scientist said yesterday, the corvid flu is here to stay and we should just get on with life and accept that, pending a vaccine. My intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) You do have to understand the local resentment to this, I live in Bury Greater Manchester in a bellwether marginal seat I have a conservative MP and for my sins have always voted conservative. Having said that Bury has been in a local lockdown akin to tier 2 since 31 of July nearly 3 months now, in terms of adherence and policing I can say that the pubs in Bury are regularly visited by the council checking compliance backed up with 3 police officers in attendance should anyone argue. I know this not on hearsay but the fact I’ve been in three different pubs when they have come in on multiple occasions whilst they do the rounds. I also know of pubs that have been closed because of non-compliance. Now seeing as Manchester has been in a harsher than a tier 2 lockdown for 3 months and it hasn’t worked in stopping the virus there are local concerns that the tier 3 will do nothing apart from adding extra hardship. The issue isn’t just the money but we were told these extra restrictions would work and they didn’t. There are 4 pubs in the next village where I go drinking, 2 have to close and 2 can remain open exactly as they have for the last 3 months, I’ll just have to get a burger with my pint now so not too sure how that really helps. Therefore, a lot of businesses and people where behind Burnham for asking tough questions about effectiveness and trying to get a good deal for the area but not necessarily behind his politics in any way. Regarding the £60 million still on the table this always had to be the case, you cannot punish local businesses just because of Burnham’s intransigence, they did nothing wrong and some did not even support him. One local pub wanted to close because they could not make money under tier 2 restrictions and 10 pm closing but in tier 2 he had to stay open with no compensation, now in tier 3 he is forced to close so he can claim, just offering £20 million to people like him who supported tier 3 would have been political suicide. Edited October 21, 2020 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Timps, thank you that makes good sense. 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: Yes, that seems to be the case - but not routed through Burnham - instead directly to local councils/boroughs. Time for Peterborough to stand up and be counted then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, timps said: The issue isn’t just the money but we were told these extra restrictions would work and they didn’t. There are 4 pubs in the next village where I go drinking, 2 have to close and 2 can remain open exactly as they have for the last 3 months, I’ll just have to get a burger with my pint now so not too sure how that really helps. Do you think all areas in Manchester have been following the rules though? I don't see how pubs selling food can or should stay open, if they feel pubs are helping to spread the virus then eating isn't going to make any difference, although there will likely be a lot less people eating out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) Andy Burnham is loving it, his face is on the front of every newspaper, he is the lead story in every news bulletin across all the Tv channels and on every radio station. Keir Starmer is nowhere to be seen. Make no mistake, Burnham is not taking on Boris, he is taking on Starmer The longer he can drag it out the more he shows Starmer up as ineffectual Edited October 21, 2020 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Burnham really strikes me as a gimmi gimmi councillor - some of those showboating with him may have been union staff to bolster him which backfired once it became obvious the mock 'updates' he got shown on mobiles in the press shaming were simple posturing after the facts he weren't getting his £5M demand that he already knew about - hence the press event. Even GMTV presenters saw through his game which came as quite a surprise - perhaps feeling able to be more open with Piers absence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Andy Burnham is loving it, his face is on the front of every newspaper, he is the lead story in every news bulletin across all the Tv channels and on every radio station. Keir Starmer is nowhere to be seen. Make no mistake, Burnham is not taking on Boris, he is taking on Starmer The longer he can drag it out the more he shows Starmer up as ineffectual You make an interesting point Vince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Make no mistake, Burnham is not taking on Boris, he is taking on Starmer I think you are quite right in a way ......... and not so right in another way. Burnham cannot expect to take on Boris at present because in effect - only another party leader can 'topple and replace' Boris - and in effect with Boris's majority that won't happen. Burnham would love to be a party leader and possible PM - and to do that he has to first get Starmer's post. However - he needs to get a (safe) parliamentary seat first. Anything before that is just very early preparation of the ground. I imagine Starmer will make it very difficult for him to get selected to stand for a safe seat - if he sees him as a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Mice! said: Do you think all areas in Manchester have been following the rules though? I don't see how pubs selling food can or should stay open, if they feel pubs are helping to spread the virus then eating isn't going to make any difference, although there will likely be a lot less people eating out. I went into Manchester town centre once for a meal and the compliance in the bars and the restaurant was how it should be. I cannot speak for everywhere or at other times but GMP and councils are checking pubs for compliance. However, they just don’t have the manpower to be everywhere. I actually know my local conservative MP and his party workers, and they state the evidence that the increase in transmission has been thorough the hospitality sector is non-existent or very very circumstantial at best for Bury so they are against shutting them without proof they are to blame or the proof it will cut the R significantly. This is why all the conservative MP’s in the area originally backed Burnham, to ask for the scientific evidence that closing them would work. When he turned down the £60 million and made it about money or political gain they have since wrote an open letter condemning him saying they would have accepted the money. They still don’t think closing the pubs will work on its own though. The biggest area of noncompliance I see regularly is the school bus or Bury town centre where a lot who have collage ID’s are in big groups not social distancing or wearing facemasks in shops or the shopping centre. The biggest increase was Manchester university with 1,061 positive cases since 21 September, and Manchester Met 544 cases between 14 September and 27 September. The leader of Manchester council, said a targeted approach to students was needed because in one hall of residence that was sampled, more than 200 students tested positive but 90 per cent were asymptomatic yet we have to keep education open. I genuinely don’t know the answer but having lived in akin to tier 2 (with the added restriction of not being able to meet in private gardens) for three months already and the R rate increase I have zero faith that tier 3 will work. That is the problem with compliance after 3 months, people are getting sick of it and will start to bend the rules no matter what tier we are in. Edited October 21, 2020 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, timps said: genuinely don’t know the answer but having lived in akin to Tire 2 (with the added restriction of not being able to meet in private gardens) for three months already and the R rate increase I have zero faith that tier 3 will work. That is the problem with compliance after 3 months, people are getting sick of it and will start to bend the rules no matter what tier we are in. Cheers, I know what you mean about the Uni, it was always going to cause problems. I'm sure there are loads who aren't following the rules, otherwise how are the rates going up so much and many must be asymptomatic. I understand them trying to close things to minimize contact but contact should have been pretty minimal anyway with the restrictions that were already in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Timps - I have to agree. I have been into McDonalds and a couple of supermarkets and all were observing the rules. They took it seriously. Driving into Bury, the only people I saw disregarding the rules were students. I have little faith that the extra tier will have the desired effect or any effect at all, other than causing problems for businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Students seem to have a natural talent for rebellion - coming off their parental leash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: Make no mistake, Burnham is not taking on Boris, he is taking on Starmer So I'm not the only one. I thought he was making a play for a future leadership contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 47 minutes ago, yod dropper said: So I'm not the only one. I thought he was making a play for a future leadership contest. He is raising his profile, the game is on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 Maybe BJ will open up and explain the formulae he is using to get to the£ numbers now he is getting it from both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Did I hear correctly? Manchester is to get the full 60 million pounds. Makes Boris look good, Manchester getting the 60m despite AB . 2 hours ago, Vince Green said: Make no mistake, Burnham is not taking on Boris, he is taking on Starmer Is he trying to lead the North? Crying about the North doesn't do as well as the south? That's hardly something new is it, that's why its grim oop north 😁😁 Winter is coming John Snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 21, 2020 Report Share Posted October 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mice! said: Makes Boris look good, Manchester getting the 60m despite AB . Is he trying to lead the North? Crying about the North doesn't do as well as the south? That's hardly something new is it, that's why its grim oop north 😁😁 Winter is coming John Snow. He is playing the oldest Labour trick in the book, creating a sense of injustice when there isn't one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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