clangerman Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: The fact that the schemes were open fraud was discussed previously on here but, as has been said, there was no other way to do it. if a farce that allows the THEFT of 4 billion is the best doris can do he needs resign now this is incompetence on a industrial scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, clangerman said: if a farce that allows the THEFT of 4 billion is the best doris can do he needs resign now this is incompetence on a industrial scale I'm surprised it's only £4B and suspect it's a lot a more. If this is a farce then it's low on a scale of 1 to 10 compared to other aspects of government handling of this and other issues. This is a convenient distraction, that's all in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 i’m sure your right probably turn out to be double the amount stolen looks like all we kept open was the pockets of thieves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Can someone tell me how to fraudulently claim something please? As self employed I was told don’t work and don’t worry we will pay you. then they told me they weren’t going to pay me a penny. I don’t even work a lot, it would have been about £440 a month, so £1200 total. But, no, all these c words can claim thousands more by lying, but little honest me gets bgr all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 6 hours ago, ditchman said: The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........ there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it being done by low life criminals is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly) and will we ever see it back i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot According to an article in R4, some of it is due to employers claiming but not furloughing their staff as per criteria. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) It was inevitable and I think also unavoidable given the pace at which schemes had to be provided. Why anybody might be shocked at the opportunistic taking advantage is in itself shocking, it is basic human nature. Sure it is on a different scale but does everyone on PW who gets £50 for a days beating or picking up declare that to the taxman? The only place i ever see £50 notes is at clay shoots when people are using up their wages from days beating. The more alarming thing isn't so much the deception by opportunistic individuals or even organised gangs, but by the nation states who have used the opportunity to take funds out the UK via shell companies. When the UK government guarenteed loan scheme was released new company registrations in that month shot up to about 3-4 times more than normal as people registered businesses to take a loan, even although the lending rules said they shouldn't be able to do that, but circumstance due to pressure from the business community enabled it. Edited October 23, 2020 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, grrclark said: It was inevitable and I think also unavoidable given the pace at which schemes had to be provided. Why anybody might be shocked at the opportunistic taking advantage is in itself shocking, it is basic human nature. Sure it is on a different scale but does everyone on PW who gets £50 for a days beating or picking up declare that to the taxman? The only place i ever see £50 notes is at clay shoots when people are using up their wages from days beating. The more alarming thing isn't so much the deception by opportunistic individuals or even organised gangs, but by the nation states who have used the opportunity to take funds out the UK via shell companies. When the UK government guarenteed loan scheme was released new company registrations in that month shot up to about 3-4 times more than normal as people registered businesses to take a loan, even although the lending rules said they shouldn't be able to do that, but circumstance due to pressure from the business community enabled it. I have to declare my beating pay ( unfortunately 🙂) as I’m employed and receive a ‘payslip’. 😢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Scully said: I have to declare my beating pay ( unfortunately 🙂) as I’m employed and receive a ‘payslip’. 😢 Damn those payslips !! If everyone is honest there is not a single person on PW who either hasn’t or wouldn’t take a cash in hand payment and not declare it. Human nature to take advantage, some just go a bit further and become exploitative, neither is a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 It was inevitable due to the speed. However the system was also badly designed to be binary rather than flexible like the German system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Scully said: I have to declare my beating pay ( unfortunately 🙂) as I’m employed and receive a ‘payslip’. 😢 Some of the bigger shoots around this way need your nat / number , name and address and they take the tax out so no need to declare your beaters pay . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Quote The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........ How do they know 4 billion has being wrongly claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, ordnance said: How do they know 4 billion has being wrongly claimed. I'd assume it is an estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: I'd assume it is an estimate. To make a estimate i would assume they have intelligence on companies etc wrongly claiming, so they should be able to go after them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Going to cost a fortune to go after companies. Lengthy investigations with little certainty of outcome. Then some sob story or “the rules were too complicated” lie at the end. Best to write it off as the cost of the policy and prosecute one or two big boys to make a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, marsh man said: Some of the bigger shoots around this way need your nat / number , name and address and they take the tax out so no need to declare your beaters pay . You’re right, as does ours, but I’m self employed so the P60 goes to my accountant along with everything else. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 hours ago, grrclark said: Damn those payslips !! If everyone is honest there is not a single person on PW who either hasn’t or wouldn’t take a cash in hand payment and not declare it. Human nature to take advantage, some just go a bit further and become exploitative, neither is a surprise. 🙂 Without a doubt. OH’s mother runs a holiday let and was once offered cash for a reduction in a weeks cost for accommodation. He worked for the IR and actively encouraged her not to claim it. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Scully said: 🙂 Without a doubt. OH’s mother runs a holiday let and was once offered cash for a reduction in a weeks cost for accommodation. He worked for the IR and actively encouraged her not to claim it. 🤷♂️ Fine to accept the cash. She still has to declare it though. Some of our smaller clients ask to pay in cash. I say “Yes that’s fine, but we offer no discount, send and invoice with VAT on it and then declare it all in our accounts. But it’s your choice.” 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Going to cost a fortune to go after companies. Lengthy investigations with little certainty of outcome. Then some sob story or “the rules were too complicated” lie at the end. Best to write it off as the cost of the policy and prosecute one or two big boys to make a statement. It will but i doubt it would cost 4 billion, try cheating on your VAT and see how quick they come after you. You can give them all the sob stories you want, the rules were too complicated etc they will get their money one way or another. Edited October 23, 2020 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Fine to accept the cash. She still has to declare it though. Some of our smaller clients ask to pay in cash. I say “Yes that’s fine, but we offer no discount, send and invoice with VAT on it and then declare it all in our accounts. But it’s your choice.” 🤣 Sorry, that should be ‘declare’ not ‘claim’. I have no idea whether she declared it or not, it was the active encouragement to not declare it which surprised me, given his occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, ordnance said: You can give them all the sob stories you want, the rules were too complicated etc they will get their money. You are quite right; ignorance was never a defence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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