Oh Jeremy!

[WalkedUp]

2 hours ago, AVB said:

I thought the Left Wingers dislike of Jews was due to the Palestine situation.  

They say they dislike Israel because of the occupation of Palestinian land, but it is a thin cover. Antisemitism is very widespread in the extremes (left and right). The extreme right wing is wildly condemned in the UK and not given much of a voice in main stream media, unlike the hard left. Personally I’m pro-Israel and just do not understand the popularity of antisemitism. 

[AVB]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It goes way back further than that to the 'anti capitalist' attitudes, but that is also a factor.

There is an article here https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/shame-of-anitsemitism-on-left-has-long-malign-history

 

5 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

They say they dislike Israel because of the occupation of Palestinian land, but it is a thin cover. Antisemitism is very widespread in the extremes (left and right). The extreme right wing is wildly condemned in the UK and not given much of a voice in main stream media, unlike the hard left. Personally I’m pro-Israel and just do not understand the popularity of antisemitism. 

I hadn’t appreciated that the hatred from the Left went back so far. The far right just hate anybody who isn’t one of them (blacks, Jews, gays etc) but I didn’t understand the view from the left. 
 

I know a number of Jewish people. Some are good and others are *****. Just like any other race/religion. 
 

I like Israel’s “couldn’t give a ****” attitude. 

[WalkedUp]

In Christianity lending with interest (usury) was morally not allowed, and similar in Judaism. However Jews were permitted to charge Gentiles interest. Hence why many early bankers were Jewish. These early lenders financed and help set up the economy as we know it, driving forward ideas such as investment. A great leap forward for civilisation. However success breeds resentment. Jews became an easy pantomime villain in the Middle Ages and were expelled from UK and massacres in other countries. That image was used by the Russians, then Nazis and now Antifa etc as an easy way of focusing resentment for our ills on an easy target.

[Newbie to this]

6 hours ago, AVB said:

Some are good and others are *****. Just like any other race/religion. 
 

This

[JohnfromUK]

Corbyn has accumulated a legal 'fighting fund' in 'go fund me' provided by his lefty cronies and the Unions.  It currently stands at £350K.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Corbyn has accumulated a legal 'fighting fund' in 'go fund me' provided by his lefty cronies and the Unions.  It currently stands at £350K.

That will be just throwing (good) money after bad.

 

He's a lost cause, unable to learn from his mistakes.

 

If you go back to when he was elected party leader he was submitted as the JOKE candidate and the joke back fired.

 

He won!

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That will be just throwing (good) money after bad.

I think all they want to do is make things as difficult as possible for Starmer.  It was alleged this morning that it wasn't Starmer who suspended Corbyn's membership because (and I can believe it in the Labour party) the leader doesn't have that power - only the general secretary.  Starmer as leader can have the whip removed, but not suspend members (apparently).  If Starmer was so determined to deal with anti Semitism, why did he loyally sit next to Corbyn as a senior cabinet member all those years?  Because actually - he is only interested in furthering his own career and will only cover things like anti Semitism when he thinks it will win votes and support - which is why I suspect he wouldn't have suspended Corbyn himself (Corbyn still has a lot of powerful followers - mainly the Unions who write Labours pay cheques.

[AVB]

25 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That will be just throwing (good) money after bad.

 

He's a lost cause, unable to learn from his mistakes.

 

If you go back to when he was elected party leader he was submitted as the JOKE candidate and the joke back fired.

 

He won!

He won because a lot of Conservatives like myself voted for him. The best thing ever to happen the Labour Party! 

[Demonic69]

I wonder if Momentum will split off from the Labour Party proper to form a "New Labour" style party? Maybe they'll just be honest and call themselves socialists?

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Demonic69 said:

I wonder if Momentum will split off from the Labour Party proper to form a "New Labour" style party? Maybe they'll just be honest and call themselves socialists?

If they do split off - it will make for an interesting time for the 'Starmer' wing.  There is no doubt that Starmer could win back some who left Labour under Corbyn, but in fact - a lot who left did so over Labours failure to support Brexit - and Starmer was a remainer (despite being their 'Brexit' secretary) - and as such was part of the problem, not the solution.  He would likely get back a few who went to the LibDems, but not many Brexit supporters - of which the northern part of the country has a lot.  He will only get 'some' of the London/Islington/Hackney set - and some will go Corbyn.

The Corbyn wing would take the left support, but critically - most of the Unions - and that means the biggest pay cheques.

I cannot see that British politics has room for four left of centre parties

1. Labour, Starmer style (new Labour MkII?)
2. Labour, Corbyn/MacDonnell style (old Labour Momentum)
3. Green (who are well left of centre and pick up a lot of left voters)
4. LibDem (who vary between near centre to well left of centre)

[Vince Green]

14 hours ago, AVB said:

I thought the Left Wingers dislike of Jews was due to the Palestine situation.  

No it goes back a lot longer than that. In London the big unions conspired to keep Jews out of jobs on the railways, the post office etc as far back as the 1920s

It is said, I don't know myself, that the unions feared they would set up a union within the union  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think all they want to do is make things as difficult as possible for Starmer.  It was alleged this morning that it wasn't Starmer who suspended Corbyn's membership because (and I can believe it in the Labour party) the leader doesn't have that power - only the general secretary.  Starmer as leader can have the whip removed, but not suspend members (apparently).  If Starmer was so determined to deal with anti Semitism, why did he loyally sit next to Corbyn as a senior cabinet member all those years?  Because actually - he is only interested in furthering his own career and will only cover things like anti Semitism when he thinks it will win votes and support - which is why I suspect he wouldn't have suspended Corbyn himself (Corbyn still has a lot of powerful followers - mainly the Unions who write Labours pay cheques.

Oh I agree, it stinks and if Starmer is to come out of this whole ongoing debacle without being tainted he will be a lucky man!

33 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

If they do split off - it will make for an interesting time for the 'Starmer' wing.  There is no doubt that Starmer could win back some who left Labour under Corbyn, but in fact - a lot who left did so over Labours failure to support Brexit - and Starmer was a remainer (despite being their 'Brexit' secretary) - and as such was part of the problem, not the solution.  He would likely get back a few who went to the LibDems, but not many Brexit supporters - of which the northern part of the country has a lot.  He will only get 'some' of the London/Islington/Hackney set - and some will go Corbyn.

The Corbyn wing would take the left support, but critically - most of the Unions - and that means the biggest pay cheques.

I cannot see that British politics has room for four left of centre parties

1. Labour, Starmer style (new Labour MkII?)
2. Labour, Corbyn/MacDonnell style (old Labour Momentum)
3. Green (who are well left of centre and pick up a lot of left voters)
4. LibDem (who vary between near centre to well left of centre)

One addition to number 4 - Who do not pick up many voters!

[Vince Green]

6 hours ago, Demonic69 said:

I wonder if Momentum will split off from the Labour Party proper to form a "New Labour" style party? Maybe they'll just be honest and call themselves socialists?

Labour, the original Labour party, is not an independent party. It was created by the Trade Union movement to be their political wing and is still at the union's beck and call.

Momentum is now more closely aligned to the political aspirations of of the unions than Starmer and Co  but is totally unelectable. The key point though is that Momentum cannot split from the money supply.

Momentum is really just the Communist Party who infiltrated Labour years ago and got their feet under the table

Edited October 30, 2020 by Vince Green

[manthing]

The problem wasn't just Comrade Corbyns but the whole of the leadership. Wasn't Starmer part of that very leadership?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, manthing said:

Wasn't Starmer part of that very leadership?

He was.  He was the man who set "Six Tests" - from Labour's tame website here https://labourlist.org/2017/03/keir-starmer-labour-has-six-tests-for-brexit-if-theyre-not-met-we-wont-back-the-final-deal-in-parliament/

to agree to leave the EU on 'his' terms;

Starmer’s six tests for the Brexit deal are:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

It is very clear that No 2 was never going to be achievable - and so we would remain ........ which is what he wanted.

Starmer is lawyer, and behaves like one, setting what appear to be quite clear tests to be met - except that at least one is actually 'impossible to meet' (unless of course you stay in those organisations - which in effect meant remaining in the EU) - and if you didn't meet the tests - you stayed in the EU anyway.  Heads he wins, tails everyone else looses.

[Vince Green]

We have to remember also that in the 1930s the British Communist Party were staunch supporters of Hitler and National Socialism, seeing them as kindred spirts with similar objectives. It was only when Hitler tried to invade Russia that the support melted away.

Even so the British Communist objectives of seizing power by force "The Revolution" and putting the opposition against a wall and shooting them was still strongly ingrained in their aspirations in 50s and 60s. when Corbyn first started out 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Vince Green

[Gordon R]

Starmer's six tests might have shown his legal background, but also demonstrated his limitations. He might have thought he was being clever, but I thought they made him look stupid.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Gordon R

[JohnfromUK]

6 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Starmer's six tests might have shown his legal background, but also demonstrated his limitations. he might have thought he was being clever, but I thought they made him look stupid.

Agreed, but even more - it made  him look as though he thought the rest of us were stupid.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It would appear that the Labour party have re-instated Jeremy Corbyn.

Waiting for some details.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54976558

Edited November 18, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Mice!]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It would appear that the Labour party have re-instated Jeremy Corbyn.

Waiting for some details.

Heard it earlier on the radio,  very strange goings on.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

15 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Heard it earlier on the radio,  very strange goings on.

He has failed to retract his words and failed to apologise.

More shame on a once great party of the ordinary working man.

[Mice!]

47 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

More shame on a once great party of the ordinary working man.

Been a long time since they helped the working man.

[JohnfromUK]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It would appear that the Labour party have re-instated Jeremy Corbyn.

I think that was inevitable.  McLusky and Co threatened to cut off Union funds (as well a quite a few members) .......... and without Union funds, they are not viable financially.  Starmer, as leader is less 'hard left', but in fact in the Labour party, the leader is not 'in charge', policies, etc. being set by 'conference', the NEC etc. where the hard left still has much support.

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

Been a long time since they helped the working man.

^^^This.

As for Comrade Corbyn, he has too many fanatical followers, that Labour need. He was never going anywhere!

[WalkedUp]

The Labour Party, dear oh dear. 

Now no one is happy! Socialists are unhappy about the disrespect treatment of big Jez and everyone else is unhappy with the party condoning anti-semitism. 

Jez’s apology was such a weaselly disgrace. He’s been in the party for half a century and seems intent on destroying it. Sir Kier Starmer needs to get a grip, his first challenge and he needs to show he can deal with it.