Dangerous experience today.

[WalkedUp]

I’m not sure the children or dogs of overly soft parents are any better than those of overly hard parents. 

I was at a very middle class children’s birthday party in Manchester filled with much more successful people than me. One boy was kneeled on his mother’s knee (she’s dainty), both sat next to his father. He started punching her in the face with a balloon with force. The mother tried to reason with the boy to ask him not to hit her in the face. It was relatively powerful (largeish 8 year old boy) for a woman to withstand and yet the father sat their saying and doing nothing. 

At another birthday party my nephews (aged 7/8) were play wrestling with my sister on the floor (stupid of my sister admittedly). She fell backwards and accidentally squashed him so he jumped up and started football kicking her in the head whilst she was lay on the floor. I leaped up and picked him up by the upper arms, taking him out of the room as he screamed. His dad who had sat there the whole time sending emails, ignoring the situation, then started shouting at me to put the child down! I told him no and took the child out of the room, with a level head popped the child down in a corner and simply told him “do not kick anyone on the floor again, do you understand me?” Cue brief hysterics from from BIL and sister to check my nephew was ok, whilst my other sister gathered herself up. My nephew followed me round for the rest of the day like a scolded puppy, desperate to make amends. I made sure to give him little errands and things we could do together. He was happy as anything, given a boundary and taught some respect. Should not be physical or verbal, it is embarrassing to argue with a child, but you need to ensure that it is clear what appropriate behaviour is. 

[AVB]

29 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I’m not sure the children or dogs of overly soft parents are any better than those of overly hard parents. 

I was at a very middle class children’s birthday party in Manchester filled with much more successful people than me. One boy was kneeled on his mother’s knee (she’s dainty), both sat next to his father. He started punching her in the face with a balloon with force. The mother tried to reason with the boy to ask him not to hit her in the face. It was relatively powerful (largeish 8 year old boy) for a woman to withstand and yet the father sat their saying and doing nothing. 

At another birthday party my nephews (aged 7/8) were play wrestling with my sister on the floor (stupid of my sister admittedly). She fell backwards and accidentally squashed him so he jumped up and started football kicking her in the head whilst she was lay on the floor. I leaped up and picked him up by the upper arms, taking him out of the room as he screamed. His dad who had sat there the whole time sending emails, ignoring the situation, then started shouting at me to put the child down! I told him no and took the child out of the room, with a level head popped the child down in a corner and simply told him “do not kick anyone on the floor again, do you understand me?” Cue brief hysterics from from BIL and sister to check my nephew was ok, whilst my other sister gathered herself up. My nephew followed me round for the rest of the day like a scolded puppy, desperate to make amends. I made sure to give him little errands and things we could do together. He was happy as anything, given a boundary and taught some respect. Should not be physical or verbal, it is embarrassing to argue with a child, but you need to ensure that it is clear what appropriate behaviour is. 

I agree. Children need to know the boundaries. They don’t need a good beating though. 

[Yellow Bear]

22 minutes ago, AVB said:

They don’t need a good beating though.

Sadly here in lies the rub as no one has codified "beating".

There are some who consider physically restraining even your child from a violent act on another as an assault (ref Walked up's post) and a single slap on the  calf as a major beating and should be subject to court proceedings.

[Saltings]

14 hours ago, AVB said:

I wouldn’t like to be one of your dogs or children! You sound like a complete ****. 

thank you

[Longbower]

I  drive a school bus , to a posh private school. Most of the pupils are respectful and  polite, there are couple who are cheeky

and badly behaved.  A child is a 'blank computer' at birth and will only collect the data and opinions that it has access to.

The same as a dog or any other animal its behavior is endemic of its influences and environment, and it will get away with what its allowed to.

Scum breading Scum ? Well , maybe not . Some are determined not to be like their parents , whether they be good or bad parents.

Lack of consideration , for others is the curse that is  upon us.  This is something that should have been taught by mothers , and fathers  to their 

prodigy.  But it isn't . It starts with the small things like 'table manners', and should cover everything up to 'treat other people , as you would like them to

treat you'.   All the tv soaps are about people being nasty to each other.  Cyber /online bullying , violent computer games. 

Police with virtually no powers,  No discipline at home, No resect for Elders, that's where we are. 2020 ,and  no way back!

 

 

[Saltings]

3 minutes ago, Longbower said:

I  drive a school bus , to a posh private school. Most of the pupils are respectful and  polite, there are couple who are cheeky

and badly behaved.  A child is a 'blank computer' at birth and will only collect the data and opinions that it has access to.

The same as a dog or any other animal its behavior is endemic of its influences and environment, and it will get away with what its allowed to.

Scum breading Scum ? Well , maybe not . Some are determined not to be like their parents , whether they be good or bad parents.

Lack of consideration , for others is the curse that is  upon us.  This is something that should have been taught by mothers , and fathers  to their 

prodigy.  But it isn't . It starts with the small things like 'table manners', and should cover everything up to 'treat other people , as you would like them to

treat you'.   All the tv soaps are about people being nasty to each other.  Cyber /online bullying , violent computer games. 

Police with virtually no powers,  No discipline at home, No resect for Elders, that's where we are. 2020 ,and  no way back!

 

 

i was brought up to treat people like i would like them to treat me   held me in good stead    i agree with all of the above better said than i can  👍

[Applepress]

Having read this post and subsequent replies, firstly may I say how awful an experience that must have been! I'm saddened that people feel it's ok or even funny to behave like that.

I notice that there are mentions of retribution ie, "looking for the scr@#e" and "do what you have to do" that perhaps we can understand. Had it been my old dad I'd have surely felt of a similar mindset.

I then read "manners and respect come from fear, a whooping teaches both" the following replies seemed to disagree wholeheartedly with such an approach yet no comments were made about the earlier remarks?

I do not endorse beating but have in the past struggled on occasion and sadly once or twice failed to turn the other cheek when circumstances have turned ugly. We should all have the right to protect ourselves, but we should also be able to live in a community where we don't need to.

Was it the wording or just different people's opinions?

That's enough out if me... I'm off to the workshop!

Keep safe all.

[Scully]

You cannot beat respect and good manners/behaviour into anyone; all you will be doing is creating fear in someone who will resent you and will eventually loathe you, and more likely to pass on their inheritance. 
Good manners/behaviour and respect are more than likely to be passed on by example. 

 

[clangerman]

lost count of the amount of murders in our town just few that stand out one killed over  fb insults one stabbed to death over 20p another killed with a claw hammer over a girl we are way way way past talking to people like this 

[Scully]

40 minutes ago, clangerman said:

lost count of the amount of murders in our town just few that stand out one killed over  fb insults one stabbed to death over 20p another killed with a claw hammer over a girl we are way way way past talking to people like this 

I’m talking about bringing up children, not treating murderers with kid gloves. 

[clangerman]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m talking about bringing up children, not treating murderers with kid gloves. 

the one who killed over the fb insults was 15 that’s a kid 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

the one who killed over the fb insults was 15 that’s a kid 

Yes, it is, but you don’t start raising a kid at the age of fifteen. 

[Saltings]

what age do you think dunks attacker was       manners starts from an early age  respect for your elders the same  with please and thank you ( free )   a bar of soap costs a little bit more       feral do as they like intimating  scumbags  threaten their mothers rob their granny's        working in peoples houses for the last 30yrs  its an eye opener     many have nothing  have manners polite and respectful    others have everything  scum      there is good and bad in all races and societies   the key word is      NO  and stick to it           after that      an Irish saying               a mans mouth often broke his own nose   

dunks     i am so sorry a comment i made derailed everything    and went on a tangent    not intended       i hope you are well and continue to do so  despite everything   be safe    John

 

[Scully]

7 hours ago, Saltings said:

what age do you think dunks attacker was       manners starts from an early age  respect for your elders the same  with please and thank you ( free )   a bar of soap costs a little bit more       feral do as they like intimating  scumbags  threaten their mothers rob their granny's        working in peoples houses for the last 30yrs  its an eye opener     many have nothing  have manners polite and respectful    others have everything  scum      there is good and bad in all races and societies   the key word is      NO  and stick to it           after that      an Irish saying               a mans mouth often broke his own nose   

dunks     i am so sorry a comment i made derailed everything    and went on a tangent    not intended       i hope you are well and continue to do so  despite everything   be safe    John

 

Why oh why is it just so hard to get through to some folk! 
I have no idea how old his attacker was, nor is it relevant; you DON’T create respect and good manners by giving someone a good beating every time they make a mistake as a child.  If you do you’re more than likely end up creating the sort of person who Dunks came into contact with. Now do you get it? 

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Why oh why is it just so hard to get through to some folk! 
I have no idea how old his attacker was, nor is it relevant; you DON’T create respect and good manners by giving someone a good beating every time they make a mistake as a child.  If you do you’re more than likely end up creating the sort of person who Dunks came into contact with. Now do you get it? 

I know what you're saying but for someone to do this to an old fella or anyone for that matter these yobs haven't been brought up right, they obviously had no discipline in the home, I'd guess they haven't worked or played in a sports team.

These lads are obviously not worried about any repercussions because they won't have been told NO, just allowed to do as they please.

Personally being in my 40s I grew up knowing that if I did something very wrong then I'd likely get a good slap if my parents found out, I didn't grow up in fear though I just knew right from wrong.

[Scully]

37 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I know what you're saying but for someone to do this to an old fella or anyone for that matter these yobs haven't been brought up right, they obviously had no discipline in the home, I'd guess they haven't worked or played in a sports team.

These lads are obviously not worried about any repercussions because they won't have been told NO, just allowed to do as they please.

Personally being in my 40s I grew up knowing that if I did something very wrong then I'd likely get a good slap if my parents found out, I didn't grow up in fear though I just knew right from wrong.

I totally agree, and they deserve locking up for a spell, because they’re of an age where they should know better, but obviously don’t care, which leads me to assume they haven’t been brought up to care. They're old enough to know that behaviour  like that has consequences. 

My point was that contrary to what saltings claimed, you do not create respect for others and good manners in children you’re raising by dishing out a beating when they make mistakes or behave badly. 

 

[Rob85]

15 minutes ago, Scully said:

I totally agree, and they deserve locking up for a spell, because they’re of an age where they should know better, but obviously don’t care, which leads me to assume they haven’t been brought up to care. They're old enough to know that behaviour  like that has consequences. 

My point was that contrary to what saltings claimed, you do not create respect for others and good manners in children you’re raising by dishing out a beating when they make mistakes or behave badly. 

 

Problem with locking them up now is they tend to get a short sentence that makes them more resentful as there's no proper rehabilitation in the prisons. Prisons have too many luxuries and easy access to other criminals who can expand connections. They are also awash with drugs. 

Maybe a good sentence for these yobs would be to have them working in a morgue dealing with the bodies of young gang members that get stabbed to death or something else suitably horrifying to show what life can really be like if you don't wise up and be an honest contributer to society

[Mice!]

33 minutes ago, Scully said:

My point was that contrary to what saltings claimed, you do not create respect for others and good manners in children you’re raising by dishing out a beating when they make mistakes or behave badly. 

I think he's just written it wrong, if these yobs had been punished when the were younger for doing wrong, and yes given a good slap when it was needed then this wouldn't have happened,  they've probably never helped another person in their lives.