Anyone know anyone who has (a) died (b) died before their time due to Covid?

[ordnance]

1 minute ago, treetree said:

But how would they know he died of covid rather than pneumonia? Very important when one of those causes has been used to destroy an economy

I don't know i do not have the expertise of the doctors, i doubt they put CV19 down as the cause of death for the fun of it. 

[treetree]

Just now, ordnance said:

I don't know i do not have the expertise of the doctors, i doubt they put CV19 down as the cause of death for the fun of it. 

And this is where, without wanting to sound patronising, you should look into the way in which covid was used on death certificates.

[Mungler]

2 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I don't know i do not have the expertise of the doctors, i doubt they put CV19 down as the cause of death for the fun of it. 

Alright then, I’m biting.

I wander into A&E missing my legs following a bad shaving accident, blood everywhere, blood loss will get me in minutes. As it happens, I also have been tested for Covid, let’s call it asymptotic Covid for good measure. My death will be recorded as Covid.

Now replace bad shaving accident with pneumonia and or inoperable advanced stage 4 cancer.

Now review the stats that shut down an economy and consigned 3 generations to debt.

[ordnance]

1 minute ago, treetree said:

And this is where, without wanting to sound patronising, you should look into the way in which covid was used on death certificates.

The governing is getting hammered because of the high death rates in the UK from CV19, its not in their or doctors interest to inflate CV19 deaths. 

[ordnance]

Quote

 

Alright then, I’m biting.

I wander into A&E missing my legs following a bad shaving accident, blood everywhere, blood loss will get me in minutes. As it happens, I also have been tested for Covid, let’s call it asymptotic Covid for good measure. My death will be recorded as Covid

 

No cv19 could be mentioned on the death certificate, but the cause of death would be loss of blood heart failure whatever. 

[AVB]

Just now, ordnance said:

No cv19 could be mentioned on the death certificate, but the cause of death would be loss of blood heart failure whatever. 

If they have had a positive test within 28 days then they WILL be recorded as a covid death. Also if covid is mentioned on the death certificate, even if not the primary cause of death, they will also be counted  as covid death by the ONS. 

Both methods are used to record covid deaths. 

10 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The governing is getting hammered because of the high death rates in the UK from CV19, its not in their or doctors interest to inflate CV19 deaths. 

Doctors don’t care how high the numbers are. In fact I know some in the NHS are loving it as it means they are going to get more money. 

[ordnance]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

If they have had a positive test within 28 days then they WILL be recorded as a covid death. Also if covid is mentioned on the death certificate, even if not the primary cause of death, they will also be counted  as covid death by the ONS. 

Both methods are used to record covid deaths. 

Doctors don’t care how high the numbers are. In fact I know some in the NHS are loving it as it means they are going to get more money. 

People in the NHS are loving seeing people die, including doctors and nurses so they can get more money. ?

Edited December 1, 2020 by ordnance

[AVB]

3 minutes ago, ordnance said:

People in the NHS are loving seeing people die, including doctors and nurses so they can get more money. ?

I have a friend who is quite senior in one of the NHS trusts. She said early doors that was a godsend for the NHS as it would mean they would never have to worry about money again. 

[ordnance]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

I have a friend who is quite senior in one of the NHS trusts. She said early doors that was a godsend for the NHS as it would mean they would never have to worry about money again. 

I wouldn't bet on that, all the money that's being handed out will have be payed back somehow. 

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I wouldn't bet on that, all the money that's being handed out will have be payed back somehow. 

When have any of the NHS bean counters ever worried about where the moneys coming from 😂

They never stop asking for more, or blaming lack of funds for poor performance. 

[Mungler]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

When have any of the NHS bean counters ever worried about where the moneys coming from 😂

They never stop asking for more, or blaming lack of funds for poor performance. 

Bang on. I find the deification of the NHS quite troubling, such that it is now beyond any form of rational criticism.

[Jaymo]

Every day we see the graphs and the daily fatality figure too- when are we going to actually see the demographics relating to age! 
 

I can’t help but feel that this is Covid mixed in with usual ‘cold weather’ type attrition.

Whilst some ‘younger’ ones will succumb via pneumonia etc, they are also likely to have done so having caught normal seasonal flu as happens.

Just feeling a little sceptical having also read the current, verses last years, bed occupancy rates 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Jaymo

[Mungler]

Each and every year the NHS fails to cope with normal flu - people on trolleys in halls etc. 

Indeed, any suggestion that the NHS needs a look over is just met with automatic outrage and uproar.

The NHS directly employs 1.7 million people at a cost of £135 billion.

For a small island with a population of 70 million that seems like a lot of money to me. Well it seems like a lot in the context that we’re not as a nation exactly the fittest, healthiest or longest living people on the planet and the NHS falls over with seasonal flu (and notwithstanding the predictability of seasonal flu).

Don’t get me wrong, the NHS is fabulous and we must never lose it, but it’s a money eating monster that can never be satisfied and in my time on the planet I haven’t seen a public funded ‘anything’ be properly delivered or with an semblance of value for money.

 

[Raja Clavata]

On the subject of deification of the NHS. Personally, I think it's important to separate the front line service that is provided as the norm vs. the inefficiencies that exist behind the scenes. My praise and reverence towards the NHS is based on personal experience both to myself and loved ones in the past relating to front line services.

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

On the subject of deification of the NHS. Personally, I think it's important to separate the front line service that is provided as the norm vs. the inefficiencies that exist behind the scenes. My praise and reverence towards the NHS is based on personal experience both to myself and loved ones in the past relating to front line services.

Agreed 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

On the subject of deification of the NHS. Personally, I think it's important to separate the front line service that is provided as the norm vs. the inefficiencies that exist behind the scenes. My praise and reverence towards the NHS is based on personal experience both to myself and loved ones in the past relating to front line services.

I wish I had your experience. I can’t say I have ever had a good experience. Watching my mum die in hospital surrounded by lazy, uncaring staff, covered in bed sores. Seeing my Alzheimer’s suffering father being randomly verbally abused by nursing staff. Seeing my cancer suffering friend have her treatment delayed due to covid. Watching my wife have a miscarriage while staff made jokes about it. Plus many more. One of the reasons I pay out a small fortune for private health insurance for the family. 

[Saltings]

5 hours ago, AVB said:

I wish I had your experience. I can’t say I have ever had a good experience. Watching my mum die in hospital surrounded by lazy, uncaring staff, covered in bed sores. Seeing my Alzheimer’s suffering father being randomly verbally abused by nursing staff. Seeing my cancer suffering friend have her treatment delayed due to covid. Watching my wife have a miscarriage while staff made jokes about it. Plus many more. One of the reasons I pay out a small fortune for private health insurance for the family. 

sorry you have had a bad experience with the nhs     i can only speak as i see       lumps in armpits and neck  consultant next week   and every wednesday  there after and   chemo every  friday  there after  for hotchkins limphoma  the care and after care was second to none  7 treatemets  out of 8 max        the nurses and doctors  did their apsolyte best to keep me alive despite infection        i will never diss the nhs for what they have done for me and my family      

[Gordon R]

I feel uneasy with NHS staff being described as heroes or heroines. From my own experience of the NHS - myself and family - there is a real mixture. These range from incompetent and ever increasing administrators, sadistic and lazy staff, to real workhorses with talent. Many are top notch and dedicated way beyond mere salary, but please spare me the view that they are all brilliant.

[Medic1281]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I feel uneasy with NHS staff being described as heroes or heroines. From my own experience of the NHS - myself and family - there is a real mixture. These range from incompetent and ever increasing administrators, sadistic and lazy staff, to real workhorses with talent. Many are top notch and dedicated way beyond mere salary, but please spare me the view that they are all brilliant.

Can’t argue with that!

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I feel uneasy with NHS staff being described as heroes or heroines. From my own experience of the NHS - myself and family - there is a real mixture. These range from incompetent and ever increasing administrators, sadistic and lazy staff, to real workhorses with talent. Many are top notch and dedicated way beyond mere salary, but please spare me the view that they are all brilliant.

think your right on the money last operation some were brilliant couldn’t do enough but others nothing but bullies to get me discharged quicker 

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I feel uneasy with NHS staff being described as heroes or heroines. From my own experience of the NHS - myself and family - there is a real mixture. These range from incompetent and ever increasing administrators, sadistic and lazy staff, to real workhorses with talent. Many are top notch and dedicated way beyond mere salary, but please spare me the view that they are all brilliant.

.

Edited December 3, 2020 by blackbird

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

.

 

[Gordon R]

Bit of an anti-climax. Two invisible replies.

[Raja Clavata]

On 02/12/2020 at 22:45, AVB said:

I wish I had your experience. I can’t say I have ever had a good experience. Watching my mum die in hospital surrounded by lazy, uncaring staff, covered in bed sores. Seeing my Alzheimer’s suffering father being randomly verbally abused by nursing staff. Seeing my cancer suffering friend have her treatment delayed due to covid. Watching my wife have a miscarriage while staff made jokes about it. Plus many more. One of the reasons I pay out a small fortune for private health insurance for the family. 

Sorry to hear of your experiences. I accompanied my mother on several of the follow-up visits post her cancer op and treatment and she was treated like royalty throughout.

We too have PHC but there are times you are better off with the NHS.

On balance my experiences of NHS vs private reflects negativity against private - botched repair of a shattered clavicle.

There are good an bad across all occupations, when it comes to medical consultants, the good and bad span across both NHS and private.

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sorry to hear of your experiences. I accompanied my mother on several of the follow-up visits post her cancer op and treatment and she was treated like royalty throughout.

We too have PHC but there are times you are better off with the NHS.

On balance my experiences of NHS vs private reflects negativity against private - botched repair of a shattered clavicle.

There are good an bad across all occupations, when it comes to medical consultants, the good and bad span across both NHS and private.

Very true but with the NHS you get what you are given. With private you get choice. And I urge anybody to check the background of their consultant.