That was a great success then........

[Mungler]

57 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Should they just ignore people that died of Covid over a certain age and put their death down to something else, I am sure the vast abundance of internet experts coming out of the woodwork would have handled it differently. 

If anyone wants to chalk up Captain Tom at the remarkable age of 100 as having died “of” covid (and not recording that death with a mere passing note of dying “with” covid) and then wants to incorporate that ‘covid death’ into the modelling that then determines whether the remainder of the whole population should lockdown (and with all the serious and long lasting ill effects that brings), then in a word ‘yes’.

I don’t claim to be an armchair expert - I am offering a differing opinion to you based on simple mathematics, statistics and what appears to me to be the bleedin’ obvious.

Interestingly, most of the older people I know tend to take an unselfish and pragmatic view of what they have borne witness to - those over 80 (and I include my parents in that) agree that they have had their best years, lived full lives and are appalled at the toll this is taking, not on them but their grandchildren. They are more anti lockdown than I. I do fully appreciate that not everyone else is like them. 

[Scully]

People need to remember we didn’t go into lockdown to prevent deaths, we did it to prevent the capabilities of the NHS from collapsing. 
Preventing intensive hospitalisation by vaccination is a means to an end; people will still die, just not as many, and therefore less will need serious hospitalisation. 
People seem to think the government cares for individuals, it doesn’t, that’s not what it’s for. Governments look at the overall picture, they have to. 

 

[Rim Fire]

On 03/07/2021 at 17:48, Scully said:

Does it matter? If they’ve been vaccinated then they won’t end up in hospital, and if they haven’t they’re probably young enough to sail through it. 🤷‍♂️

Scully i think this is the way forward if not hospitalized and the death rates come down hopefully the C19 will get weaker every time it mutates now most got the vaccines maybe heard immunity  is what's needed 

[ordnance]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

People need to remember we didn’t go into lockdown to prevent deaths, we did it to prevent the capabilities of the NHS from collapsing. 
Preventing intensive hospitalisation by vaccination is a means to an end; people will still die, just not as many, and therefore less will need serious hospitalisation. 
People seem to think the government cares for individuals, it doesn’t, that’s not what it’s for. Governments look at the overall picture, they have to. 

 

+ 1

[Mungler]

So, this nonsense is finally over, or rather we have a very short road map to the end.

Now for the backlash when people wonder where the last 2 years went, why there’s going to be no public services and soaring inflation and taxation on the horizon. And what about how those SAGE ghouls got everything quite so wrong - what was their pre-Xmas prediction with Omicron? 6000+ dead a day? 

I wonder to what extent Downing Street ever believed its own messaging? Actions and words ‘n all that. 

And whilst Boris should be claiming a victory in calling it right and pointing to the rest of the world still in lockdown (and the police state that is now Australia etc) he has to spend his days apologising and being skewered by the BBC. Talk about stealing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Anyway, I’m off to the travel agents and with new found hope I might actually get to go this year 😆

[al4x]

Come on Mungler it’s not over…… wait for the next strain that kills well and we will be back to square one.  

[udderlyoffroad]

12 minutes ago, al4x said:

wait for the next strain that kills well and we will be back to square one.

Umm, that's always assuming people will accept restrictions at all, ever again.

I'm beginning to hope they won't.  Lockdowns demonstrably do not work, anyone still claiming they do is frankly completely at odds with reality.  Invariably, the harsher the restrictions, the worse the numbers.

And yes, we're only one Chris Whitty brain-**** away from restrictions, but there but for the grace of <chosen deity> walks Boris trying to save his skin.  Whoever replaces him will be worse in terms of imposing restrictions, of that we can be sure.

The fact that all the talking heads in the media are now furiously back-peddling would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

I just hope some enterprising ambulance-chasing lawyer decides his true calling is to sue the NHS for wrongful deaths due to lack of treatment for <insert treatable disease>, and the whole ****show is made a matter of public record in the courts.

 

On 18/01/2022 at 07:52, Scully said:

People need to remember we didn’t go into lockdown to prevent deaths, we did it to prevent footage similar to Italy appearing on the news channels thus making the government look bad.

Fixed that for you, Scully. 😉

 

[Mungler]

Ok, so also in the news but completely overlooked whilst we all go potty with an already proven liar prior to election being caught lying and being a politician….

Fresh NHS data showing the total number of covid related deaths in hospitals involving patients under the age of 80 and with no pre-existing conditions is 3,037 out of 70 million people, and covering the whole period of the pandemic.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/01/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-20-January-2022-weekly-file.xlsx
 

Table 3.

Also see here:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=nation%26areaName=England#card-deaths_within_28_days_of_positive_test_by_date_of_death_age_demographics_-_above_and_below_60
 

Light blue line - deaths under 60, dark blue - above 60. light blue line is completely flat other than the tiny bumps ringed (april 20, winter 20).

As for lockdowns - France is still in strict lockdown with 300k daily cases (minimal hospital admissions) thus showing (1) lockdowns / mask wearing doesn’t work (2) it’s nowhere near fatal.

For not putting us in lockdown I’d forgive Boris of pretty much anything right now and I would give him proper credit for calling it correctly. People will scoff and call it luck but you can’t argue with the result.

When the weather gets better they’re going to be rioting on the continent when they work out what’s been done to them. The BBC won’t report that - they’ll still be on about the No. 10 Garden Party.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

When the weather gets better they’re going to be rioting on the continent when they work out what’s been done to them.

You don't have to wait that long, lots of demos going on all the time.  Of course, the usual suspects still report them as 'anti vax' in order to attempt to discredit them, if they bother reporting on them at all.

Anti-vax-mandate is probably a better description, but a range of views turns up to protest.

[clangerman]

with it suddenly down graded to almost a cold i would believe anything covid now if it was cast in stone 

[ordnance]

26 minutes ago, clangerman said:

with it suddenly down graded to almost a cold i would believe anything covid now if it was cast in stone 

When did that happen. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by ordnance

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

As for lockdowns - France is still in strict lockdown with 300k daily cases (minimal hospital admissions) thus showing (1) lockdowns / mask wearing doesn’t work (2) it’s nowhere near fatal.

If they still have 300k cases a day they are probably bricking it in case things took a turn on the variant?

Are they testing more than us? I only ask because 300k a day seems an awful lot, we're on around 100k?

What ever France are doing lockdown wise is clearly not working or be adhered to?

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

For not putting us in lockdown I’d forgive Boris of pretty much anything right now and I would give him proper credit for calling it correctly. People will scoff and call it luck but you can’t argue with the result.

But they had a party!! And it's all the news or Labour seem to mention. 

These opinion polls keep saying the same thing, but most folk will be happy that covid isn't now making people ill,  in the majority,  were not in lockdown and everyone mostly is back at work or school.

But it's still being taken seriously in some areas, our lads beavers group have said they have to do a LFT before attending? A year of our kids school got sent home because so many kids were testing positive,  another school put all years into bubbles to stop the years mixing.  I've no idea if this is going on elsewhere?

Bring on the Spring. 

[ordnance]

Quote

As for lockdowns - France is still in strict lockdown with 300k daily cases (minimal hospital admissions) thus showing (1) lockdowns / mask wearing doesn’t work (2) it’s nowhere near fatal.

Are all non essential business etc closed down in France, I need to keep up i didn't know France was in strict lockdown. PS how do you now their figures would not be much worse if they were not taking the measures they are 

[Jim Neal]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

A year of our kids school got sent home because so many kids were testing positive,  another school put all years into bubbles to stop the years mixing.  I've no idea if this is going on elsewhere?

My son's at the primary school in our village, it's not a tiny school but not massive.  They sent out an email yesterday; covid cases have gone up sharply in the last week and they're beginning to stagger each year group's entry times and keep the years segregated again.

Two kids in my son's class are currently off with covid, so I'm just waiting for my inevitable turn now 😐

My dad's been in hospital since December 21st and he's due out early next week - he's toast if he gets covid, even "mild" omicron would get him I think.  It would be crushing if we've come this far unscathed through 2 years of covid plus his hospital stay, only for him to catch it when he comes home 😕

So from today we're going to have to do a LF before coming in to contact with my folks and probably exercise a lot of caution when seeing them.  I started to find all the "covid-safe practices" quite a bind a very long time ago and I'd just carry on regardless if there was nobody else to consider... I couldn't care less about the effects on myself, but I just don't want to kill my dad through carelessness.

I can't help thinking...when is it going to end, this covid paranoia?  Probably, to be really blunt, in 5-10 years' time when everyone who's susceptible has died from it?

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Jim Neal

[Mungler]

Alright stat lovers, I have some more for you.

This is jaw dropping.

Check out this FOS request and reply dated today:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathscomparisonbetweendecember2020anddecember2021

I’ll save you all the aggro of cross referencing.

For 2020, deaths where only covid featured on the death cert for under 65 year olds:

2020 Q1: 27

2020 Q2: 949

2020 Q3: 59

2020 Q4: 408

That’s 1,443 under the age of 65 years of age out of a total population of 70,000,000 for 2020 when Covid was at its peak and pre-vax. 

Covid is the new C-dif for olds in nursing homes and people circling the drain.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Mungler

[ordnance]

37 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Alright stat lovers, I have some more for you.

This is jaw dropping.

Check out this FOS request and reply dated today:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathscomparisonbetweendecember2020anddecember2021

I’ll save you all the aggro of cross referencing.

For 2020, deaths where only covid featured on the death cert for under 65 year olds:

2020 Q1: 27

2020 Q2: 949

2020 Q3: 59

2020 Q4: 408

That’s 1,443 under the age of 65 years of age out of a total population of 70,000,000 for 2020 when Covid was at its peak and pre-vax. 

Covid is the new C-dif for olds in nursing homes and people circling the drain.

You seem to be missing the point, the lockdowns etc were to slow down the spread and help prevent the NHS being overwhelmed with people with Covid, not necessary to prevent deaths. Governments are just as indifferent / callous at older people dying as you are, at least they have a excuse its just bad PR for them. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by ordnance

[Mungler]

23 minutes ago, ordnance said:

You seem to be missing the point, the lockdowns etc were to slow down the spread and help prevent the NHS being overwhelmed with people with Covid, not necessary to prevent deaths. Governments are just as indifferent / callous at older people dying as you are, at least they have a excuse its just bad PR for them. 

No, you are missing the point that lockdowns don’t actually work. 

France is still in lockdown (full on and with masks and big fines) and their case day rates are north of 300,000.

Tell me how 300,000 each day are getting Covid in France right now?

Lockdowns like masks are theatre. Remember all that nonsense about hand sanitizer and now we now know the risk is absolutely air born. The science on particle size confirms that the masks required are the fully sealed high end ones which are not in mass circulation, in conjunction with sealed goggles.

 

[ordnance]

23 minutes ago, Mungler said:

No, you are missing the point that lockdowns don’t actually work. 

France is still in lockdown (full on and with masks and big fines) and their case day rates are north of 300,000.

Tell me how 300,000 each day are getting Covid in France right now?

Lockdowns like masks are theatre. Remember all that nonsense about hand sanitizer and now we now know the risk is absolutely air born. The science on particle size confirms that the masks required are the fully sealed high end ones which are not in mass circulation, in conjunction with sealed goggles.

 

You have a different view of what's going on in France than me, you call it a lockdown. The risk like any virus is touch and air born, all the masks sanitisers etc were to cut down transmission not stop it. How do you know their would not be more than 3000, 000 each day in France without the restrictions and that its not helping slow the spread. But again all the experts in decease control, immunology,  etc are wrong and internet experts are right 

Quote

( Lockdown ) England was in national lockdown between late March and June 2020. Intitally, all “non-essential” high street businesses were closed and people were ordered to stay at home, permitted to leave for essential purposes only, such as buying food or for medical reasons.

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by ordnance

[Mungler]

Well, the good news remains, this nonsense is over. 

Make of the stats what you will.

The coming months are going to be fascinating to watch.

[ordnance]

23 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Well, the good news remains, this nonsense is over. 

Make of the stats what you will.

The coming months are going to be fascinating to watch.

I agree they will be interesting, one way or another. 

[Rewulf]

16 hours ago, ordnance said:

How do you know their would not be more than 3000, 000 each day in France without the restrictions

Well at least by the end of the month , they would all be immune , or dead.

The only thing they have done is make it last 2 years for the same result.

Interestingly , besides the new cases figure hitting 400,000 yesterday, is Frances registered positive tests.
16,000,000 registered , estimates state that figure can be multiplied by  3 or 4 times, (some say 5) but only 6,000,000 are stated as being fully recovered, so 10,000,000 people in France are listed as still suffering the effects of covid infection ?

France has a vaccination rate similar to the UK by the way, so its not like theyre a nation of anti vaxxers...

India , with 50 % vaxxed , and over 20 times the population , has less infections , and less than twice the deaths , and thats only a recent trend , until recently it was doing far better ?
I find it strange how , as vaccine use goes up , no matter what restrictions are in place , covid infection rates seem to go UP?

 

[ordnance]

Quote

India , with 50 % vaxxed , and over 20 times the population , has less infections , and less than twice the deaths , and thats only a recent trend , until recently it was doing far better ?

Not really comparing like with like, totally different population demographics testing and reporting. 

Quote

I find it strange how , as vaccine use goes up , no matter what restrictions are in place , covid infection rates seem to go UP?

Is it not well known and that the vaccines will not stop people being infected, but help with the severity of the disease. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

s it not well known and that the vaccines will not stop people being infected, but help with the severity of the disease. 

Edited 1 hour

That may be , but I'm talking about the numbers of infections.

The UK is now 83 % fully vaxxed ,and over 90% double vaxxed, yet we saw a massive spike over Xmas, the good thing is there were few deaths and hospitalisation, despite the fear mongering SAGE teams predictions.

Yet new infections were up to 200000 a day (x 3-5 theoretically).

Now, it seems that falf the country got Omicron over Xmas,  the infection rate is dropping , not the best advert for vaccine efficacy.

[Rewulf]

 

[Mungler]

On 22/01/2022 at 18:49, Rewulf said:

That may be , but I'm talking about the numbers of infections.

The UK is now 83 % fully vaxxed ,and over 90% double vaxxed, yet we saw a massive spike over Xmas, the good thing is there were few deaths and hospitalisation, despite the fear mongering SAGE teams predictions.

Yet new infections were up to 200000 a day (x 3-5 theoretically).

Now, it seems that falf the country got Omicron over Xmas,  the infection rate is dropping , not the best advert for vaccine efficacy.

 

We have being fed the line that the vaccine stops transmission (now known to be false) and that the vaccine stops the contraction of the virus (now known to be false) and so the last one which is a grey area to measure, is that the vaccine lessens the effects of the virus.

Don’t get me wrong, as a fat smoker I got what I could; after all the BBC said we were all going to die, but there is now the post mortem of this nonsense and yes it is and has been without a doubt a total nonsense; an exercise in mass governmental stupidity and stage hypnosis.

Oh and did anyone see the John Hopkins study (yeah those crackpots 😆) which confirmed our £2 trillion lockdowns saved about 0.02% of deaths. Brilliant.  

The world genuinely went mad; egged on by TV loving, self serving sage ghouls. And don’t forget those statisticians who were clearly narcissistic / borderline sociopathic and let’s not forget the governments that got a taste for the draconian and emergency powers.