Dave at kelton Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 So thought I would buy some eco steel in 12 and 20 bore to try this season. I know steel can do the job on the foreshore but on pheasants? Had a day on our small shoot today. Birds are generally standard stuff around 25 yds with anything over 30 yds a high, or long bird. I took the 20 bore out and choked it imp cyl and quarter. Was using 24 gm no 4 shot. Firstly there was almost no felt recoil in a gun weighing around 6lb 12oz, a really sweet cartridge. As to performance it was brilliant with only one exception, six first barrel kills on a variety of birds through the imp cyl barrel. The last bird was dead on the second barrel a good way out at 30 yds. On returning home I cleaned the gun. Quite a lot of powder and general residue so needed a good scrub through, probably more than with my usual VIP load. The barrels though came up fine with not a mark. In conclusion these shells are a hit for me and I will carry on using them. Not sure what they will perform like on taller birds but will see when I get that opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Glad you found a working non toxic load for your chosen gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 I went beating a fortnight ago and two of the guns had a day in Wales where they were asked to shoot one drive with steel of there choise, both said that "extreme bird shooting is finished with steel, they just don't kill over 40 yrds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 hour ago, 8 shot said: I went beating a fortnight ago and two of the guns had a day in Wales where they were asked to shoot one drive with steel of there choise, both said that "extreme bird shooting is finished with steel, they just don't kill over 40 yrds Extreme bird shooting finished with steel , excellent ! all good then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, holloway said: Extreme bird shooting finished with steel , excellent ! all good then. WHY ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 3 hours ago, 8 shot said: WHY ! Shooting live quarry at extreme range in my opinion is unethical if the target was a clay fine live quarry no . why do you think there are wardens checking on long range shooting (cowboys) on the wardened wild fowling areas Caerlaverock Wigtown etc.. Because they want to see shooting continue there that’s why. I have counted the shots at Ladyhall 38 shots for 1 pricked goose that planed down miles out on the sand. My opinion of course and many will disagree they are of course entitled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 14 hours ago, holloway said: Shooting live quarry at extreme range in my opinion is unethical if the target was a clay fine live quarry no . why do you think there are wardens checking on long range shooting (cowboys) on the wardened wild fowling areas Caerlaverock Wigtown etc.. Because they want to see shooting continue there that’s why. I have counted the shots at Ladyhall 38 shots for 1 pricked goose that planed down miles out on the sand. My opinion of course and many will disagree they are of course entitled to. Oh dear oh dear oh dear..... heading down the road of Certificates Of Competence, a race to the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 18 hours ago, holloway said: Extreme bird shooting finished with steel , excellent ! I seriously doubt that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Scully said: I seriously doubt that. I agree unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Oh dear oh dear oh dear..... heading down the road of Certificates Of Competence, a race to the bottom. Not really ,just a personal opinion, many are happy to blast away at out of range quarry, killing a few ,crippling a few more and missing most you will never change them ,if they are happy it’s up to them. Good to hear a positive review on the Eley eco steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxus Hunter Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 This is total nonsense,I bought some hull magnum steel 36 gram no1s and they will kill any pheasant at 60 yard's no problem as long as u put it on the front half of the bird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted November 24, 2021 Report Share Posted November 24, 2021 13 hours ago, Maxus Hunter said: This is total nonsense,I bought some hull magnum steel 36 gram no1s and they will kill any pheasant at 60 yard's no problem as long as u put it on the front half of the bird I seriously doubt that. Can you tell us, please, how many pellets are in each cartridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxus Hunter Posted November 24, 2021 Report Share Posted November 24, 2021 There's 120 4mm pellets,I use a browning grand passage full choke and I've pattern tested with a friend and shot mallard stone dead at 55 yards with this combination so u can believe whatever u want,I don't care who believes me I posted this for people that shoot steel to let them know how good they r Regards Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted November 24, 2021 Report Share Posted November 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Maxus Hunter said: There's 120 4mm pellets,I use a browning grand passage full choke and I've pattern tested with a friend and shot mallard stone dead at 55 yards with this combination so u can believe whatever u want,I don't care who believes me I posted this for people that shoot steel to let them know how good they r Regards Tony If your full choke put the whole charge in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards (which I doubt it will) the pattern would only just be dense enough for pheasants at that range. At 60 yards there is almost zero chance that load would be consistently effective. But of course a lucky pellet that size will kill at that range. ooh-er, I think I’m turning into one of the PW theorists! Anyway, I’m calling BS on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted November 24, 2021 Report Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Maxus Hunter said: There's 120 4mm pellets,I use a browning grand passage full choke and I've pattern tested with a friend and shot mallard stone dead at 55 yards with this combination so u can believe whatever u want,I don't care who believes me I posted this for people that shoot steel to let them know how good they r Regards Tony You will struggle to convince the game shooting dinosaurs on this forum Tony ,steel can be better than lead proven by wildfowlers all over the country ,shells have now evolved out of all recognition to what they sold us years ago . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 24, 2021 Report Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, London Best said: If your full choke put the whole charge in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards (which I doubt it will) the pattern would only just be dense enough for pheasants at that range. At 60 yards there is almost zero chance that load would be consistently effective. But of course a lucky pellet that size will kill at that range. ooh-er, I think I’m turning into one of the PW theorists! Anyway, I’m calling BS on this one. Don't knock it - it's well known that it baffles brains if you let it. A theorist may well tell you that you need some 60 pellets in the central pattern in order to be reasonably certain of a clean kill with a truly aimed shot. Maxus has just 120 pellets in total so that equates to 50% 0f them centrally. Using lead tables this would equate to an 80% pattern. However, we know that steel patterns tighter than lead so steel may well be on the cards here at 40 yards as has been mentioned - but that's pretty much your lot - ranting and raving wouldn't alter the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxus Hunter Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 Obviously u haven't shot many steel cartridges lately then if u think 40 yard's is the max range for steel,thanks holloway that's very true,my friend and I shoot alot of feral pigeon with 28 gram 7 steel at over 40 yards but I must be making this stuff up to sound good because we all now it just bounces off them 🤣😂🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxus Hunter Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 Ok 1 more rant,if u look at the ballistic chart it shows that steel 1 has more energy than lead 4 at 50 yard's, would u like to explain that 1 please,o and getting 70 to 80% pattern and those ranges are easy enough with the right aftermarket choke,rant over peeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 16 minutes ago, Maxus Hunter said: Ok 1 more rant,if u look at the ballistic chart it shows that steel 1 has more energy than lead 4 at 50 yard's, would u like to explain that 1 please,o and getting 70 to 80% pattern and those ranges are easy enough with the right aftermarket choke,rant over peeps I would hope so and indeed it does. Just one little problem though. Just as lead No 7 has 10 more yards satisfactory penetration than steel 5s, lead 6s have 15 more than steel 4s and lead 5s, 15 more than steel 3, lead 4s penetrate more than the steel 1s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxus Hunter Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 Could you post the chart that u r getting that information from please,my point of lead 4 against steel 1 was lead 4 is what most people use on high pheasant and it would be a suitable steel alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Maxus Hunter said: Could you post the chart that u r getting that information from please,my point of lead 4 against steel 1 was lead 4 is what most people use on high pheasant and it would be a suitable steel alternative. What chart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxus Hunter Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 Where r u getting those penetration figures from, steel penetrates better than lead because lead is meant to kill with energy so where r u getting ur data from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Maxus Hunter said: Where r u getting those penetration figures from, steel penetrates better than lead because lead is meant to kill with energy so where r u getting ur data from ? Lead penetrates further than steel into tissue and bone, hard lead penetrates fur skin and bone slightly better than soft lead due to less deformation but into plain gel the reverse is true. For .177 pellet (BB) at 50 yards, All at same 600fps velocity into ballistic gel, soft chilled lead 2.72 inch, 5% antimony 2.66 inch, Steel 1.73 inch. Lead no4 1.87inch and 2.56 ftlbs at 50 yards, steel no1 1.63 inch, 3.98ftlbs. Steel might have more energy, but lead penetrates further giving more lethal effect. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/mobile/KPY-Shotshell-Ballistics-v20-select-CD-or-USB/productinfo/716KPYB/ Edited November 25, 2021 by Stonepark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 seen this argument like 1000 time now and the same things dont seem to get factored in. yes steel will kill at the ranges lead will if you go up your apropriate shot size, and yes steel patterns tighter. heres my main belief why high birds shooters will be a thing of the past with steel and its not killing potential, its comfort followed by economics. we all agree steel 1 will do what lead 4 will do however for every ounce of lead 4 you get roughly 170 pellets an ouce of steel 1s will get you rougly 100 so you get bigger gaps or smaller overall pattern than a like for like lead. Options. bigger gaps-- we all know why thats not good, moving on. non toxic shot other than steel-- we all know the crack lets move on again Tighter choke--could do but its pretty much blanket advice by the industry that its not a brilliant idea to go to tight even if you gun/choke combo will take it. besides steel starts to open up again at range if you go to far. idk why but somone will im sure. has the same pros and cons as choke choice in lead. so that option is a bit of a non starter too. heavier loads-- for the most part im sure their is exceptions somwhere but anything beyond 32g in steel is a 3" magnum and lets not argue that a 36g lead cart thumps just like a 36g steel, we know they dont. So realistically who is gona stand on the peg and just go through box after box of 3" steel?. its ok on the forshore where youve got loads of layers for warmth and a full box shot is an exceptionally good day. people will try it and be battered and peformance will go out the window or they will throw light loads up. either way they will just increase the amount of pricked birds and misses until it becomes a lottery and shoots will ban it or it will be so frowned upon youll just stop doing it. anyone who says folks wont get tired and yes they will fire SP steel all day .If extreme range kills are the goal, whats stopped them throwing 3" lead carts up this whole time and bring them down out of orbit?. regardless if its the recoil or the excessive damage to more reasonable ranged birds the same factors still apply with steel but probably more pronounced youre gona have to compromise somwhere how long do you thing the whole thing will last if we use steel like lead?. its gona be loads of wounded hight birds with 32g of steel 3s or loads of apsolutly smashed birds with 36g+ of magnum steel 1s or BBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 26, 2021 Report Share Posted November 26, 2021 They’ll just use lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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