chrisjpainter Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Hurrah. The most inevitable sacking in sport Michael Masi removed as F1 race director as part of FIA restructure in wake of Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - BBC Sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) That took the FIA far too long! The introduction of some German efficiency is welcome. Edited February 17, 2022 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 There's obviously a lot more like me who want nothing more to do with F1 after that debacle. I want nothing less than a reversal of that decision and Verstappen went even lower in my estimation of him (If that were possible) when he accepted the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 I hope there's banners at every race saying red bull and Max are cheats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, daveboy said: I hope there's banners at every race saying red bull and Max are cheats. Not this again. How did he cheat? He benefitted hugely from the call and it was entirely unfair, but it wasn't their call. Red Bull pushed their case to get some kind of race going. don't pretend you wouldn't have done the same if you were in their shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: Not this again. How did he cheat? He benefitted hugely from the call and it was entirely unfair, but it wasn't their call. Red Bull pushed their case to get some kind of race going. don't pretend you wouldn't have done the same if you were in their shoes. No I wouldn't. I raced Karts for years Don't judge me by your standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, daveboy said: No I wouldn't. I raced Karts for years Don't judge me by your standards. Multi million dollar industry and a first WORLD title on offer ups the stakes somewhat from karting. How did he cheat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, daveboy said: I hope there's banners at every race saying red bull and Max are cheats. hope to see just as many for the merc mob trying to pull strings and the cry baby threatening to leave f1 unless he got his own way blackmail clearly works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: Multi million dollar industry and a first WORLD title on offer ups the stakes somewhat from karting. How did he cheat? Is not following the rules cheating Don't you think his "first world title" will be forever tainted Edited February 17, 2022 by daveboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, daveboy said: Is not following the rules cheating Er...he followed Michael Masi's direction and interpretation. Michael Masi set the standard. Michael Masi directed the procedings. Michael Masi made the calls. Max just did exactly what he was allowed to do. Remember Mercedes were packing umpteen lawyers and a travelling QC with them, but none of their legal entourage could make their case stick and it never even made it to CAS. Michael Masi applied the rules as he interpreted them, then Red Bull followed that application. So Red Bull did follow the rules. The fact that the rules were ridiculous isn't Red Bull's fault. The laws are poorly written and leave far too much ambiguity and have shown that there's too much power resting with one man. But again, that's not Red Bull's fault and following them isn't cheating. The fault lies squarely with Masi, which is why I'm please he's been sacked. Hopefully they'll take this opportunity to rejig a lot of the rules for the Director. It worked under Whiting, because everyone trusted him to be sensible, but rules have to govern every Director, not just the good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: Er...he followed Michael Masi's direction and interpretation. Michael Masi set the standard. Michael Masi directed the procedings. Michael Masi made the calls. Max just did exactly what he was allowed to do. Remember Mercedes were packing umpteen lawyers and a travelling QC with them, but none of their legal entourage could make their case stick and it never even made it to CAS. Michael Masi applied the rules as he interpreted them, then Red Bull followed that application. So Red Bull did follow the rules. The fact that the rules were ridiculous isn't Red Bull's fault. The laws are poorly written and leave far too much ambiguity and have shown that there's too much power resting with one man. But again, that's not Red Bull's fault and following them isn't cheating. The fault lies squarely with Masi, which is why I'm please he's been sacked. Hopefully they'll take this opportunity to rejig a lot of the rules for the Director. It worked under Whiting, because everyone trusted him to be sensible, but rules have to govern every Director, not just the good ones. Don't you think his "first world title" will be forever tainted I would hand it back if I were Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, daveboy said: Don't you think his "first world title" will be forever tainted I would hand it back if I were Him. I didn't say it wouldn't be tainted. There will always be questions over it and I bet it's not the way he would have wanted to win it either. But it's still not his fault. Sports people have been benefitting from creative interpretations of the rules since time immemorial. Whether it's benefitting from a strange call when they go off the track and don't give the place back in F1, or Torvill and Dean playing fast and loose with the rulebook Sarajevo '84. If there's wiggle room in the rulebook, it's a sign of a bad rulebook, but it's not the athletes' fault if they gain from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: I didn't say it wouldn't be tainted. There will always be questions over it and I bet it's not the way he would have wanted to win it either. But it's still not his fault. Sports people have been benefitting from creative interpretations of the rules since time immemorial. Whether it's benefitting from a strange call when they go off the track and don't give the place back in F1, or Torvill and Dean playing fast and loose with the rulebook Sarajevo '84. If there's wiggle room in the rulebook, it's a sign of a bad rulebook, but it's not the athletes' fault if they gain from it. Did you see this week where a cricket wicket keeper refused to stump somebody who had been knocked over accidently ?? Or where the football manager made his team give a goal back.....Max should hand the title back....by the way I'm not a Hamilton fan......just a F1 fan.....but I like moto GP more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) Yes, there are of course moments when an athlete goes beyond the fairness in the rules and invokes an ethical fairness. and we applaud them for it and it's always what we want to see. But should we really expect it - particularly over a season when Max and Hamilton have both been behaving so badly? The number of times each got on the radio to complain about the other, only to do exactly the same thing themselves! Should we expect Torvill and Dean to give their iconic gold back because their routine was 30 seconds longer than anyone else was apparently allowed in a 4 minute routine? Sometimes the rules just need to be better. Edited February 17, 2022 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Red Bull could hardly have had the time to do a Marcello Bielsa. I don't think Hamilton or Versappen are particularly nice people, but they are winners. Neither decided the rules or the interpretation of them - Versappen won - end of chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) Tainted or not it's on Max's mantlepiece. Edited February 17, 2022 by redial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Let's cut through all this bull**** and philosophy, Who deserved the win? Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Over the year Max should have won if not for the several. " Incident's " with the Mercedes and if the last race was flipped around Mercedes would have done the same and grabbed it with both hands would they not ? They also could have pitted for new tyre's but chose not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, B725 said: Over the year Max should have won if not for the several. " Incident's " with the Mercedes and if the last race was flipped around Mercedes would have done the same and grabbed it with both hands would they not ? They also could have pitted for new tyre's but chose not to. They didn’t need to pit as their strategy was working great and had Latiffi not binned it, then they would have won. Had the procedures of the FIA been followed to the ‘letter’, then they would have one. I know all to well the mentality of our Cheese eating friends and even some of those are saying they Mercedes were robbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) Guy's get over it. Hamilton will get another chance and probably get his eighth title. The people in question are multi millionaires, living the dream. Try being on the minimum wage and worrying about fuel / energy bills. Edited February 17, 2022 by redial Error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 9 hours ago, redial said: Guy's get over it. Hamilton will get another chance and probably get his eighth title. The people in question are multi millionaires, living the dream. Try being on the minimum wage and worrying about fuel / energy bills. I wish I could get over it but my ethics about what's right and what's wrong are too strong. Rules and laws are made by powerful people, usually with an agenda in mind and we peasants have to abide by them but there's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who knows what's right and wrong and still uses bad laws to advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, toxo said: I wish I could get over it but my ethics about what's right and what's wrong are too strong. Rules and laws are made by powerful people, usually with an agenda in mind and we peasants have to abide by them but there's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who knows what's right and wrong and still uses bad laws to advantage. I respect your ethics. Let's agree to disagree and look forward to the new season. Just to add, my son is a Hamilton super fan. I had stopped watching F1 in the early 80's. Then years later my son got the bug. I now have to endure qualifying sessions re-runs of successful Hamilton races, interviews etc etc. Cheers. Edited February 18, 2022 by redial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 10 hours ago, redial said: I respect your ethics. Let's agree to disagree and look forward to the new season. Just to add, my son is a Hamilton super fan. I had stopped watching F1 in the early 80's. Then years later my son got the bug. I now have to endure qualifying sessions re-runs of successful Hamilton races, interviews etc etc. Cheers. When an event that someone has trained hard for and dedicated their lives to can be "won" by politics it's the end of it for me. I won't be watching F1 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuffy Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 Should 1 hour ago, toxo said: When an event that someone has trained hard for and dedicated their lives to can be "won" by politics it's the end of it for me. I won't be watching F1 this year. Why not . Last year is history . I'm sure Hamilton will be trying to "legaly" stuff verstappen at every opportunity . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 18 minutes ago, cuffy said: Why not . Last year is history . Last year is indeed history because there are many who think as I do and have left F1. I'm sure Hamilton will be trying to "legaly" stuff verstappen at every opportunity . There's a chasm of difference between using the rules that are laid down and someone in power changing those rules at the eleventh hour to suit a political agenda. They haven't even sacked the ******** who caused all this. They've given him another position in the FIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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