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F1 Masi's gone!


chrisjpainter
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There's obviously a lot more like me who want nothing more to do with F1 after that debacle. I want nothing less than a reversal of that decision and Verstappen went even lower in my estimation of him (If that were possible) when he accepted the title.

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Just now, daveboy said:

I hope there's banners at every race saying red bull and Max are cheats.

Not this again. How did he cheat? He benefitted hugely from the call and it was entirely unfair, but it wasn't their call. Red Bull pushed their case to get some kind of race going. don't pretend you wouldn't have done the same if you were in their shoes. 

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2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Not this again. How did he cheat? He benefitted hugely from the call and it was entirely unfair, but it wasn't their call. Red Bull pushed their case to get some kind of race going. don't pretend you wouldn't have done the same if you were in their shoes. 

No I wouldn't.

I raced Karts for years

 Don't judge me by your standards.

 

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10 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Multi million dollar industry and a first WORLD title on offer ups the stakes somewhat from karting.

How did he cheat?

Is not following the rules cheating ???

Don't you think his "first world title" will be forever tainted ???

Edited by daveboy
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Just now, daveboy said:

Is not following the rules cheating

 

Er...he followed Michael Masi's direction and interpretation. Michael Masi set the standard. Michael Masi directed the procedings. Michael Masi made the calls. Max just did exactly what he was allowed to do. Remember Mercedes were packing umpteen lawyers and a travelling QC with them, but none of their legal entourage could make their case stick and it never even made it to CAS. 

Michael Masi applied the rules as he interpreted them, then Red Bull followed that application. So Red Bull did follow the rules. The fact that the rules were ridiculous isn't Red Bull's fault. The laws are poorly written and leave far too much ambiguity and have shown that there's too much power resting with one man. But again, that's not Red Bull's fault and following them isn't cheating. 

The fault lies squarely with Masi, which is why I'm please he's been sacked. Hopefully they'll take this opportunity to rejig a lot of the rules for the Director. It worked under Whiting, because everyone trusted him to be sensible, but rules have to govern every Director, not just the good ones.

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3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Er...he followed Michael Masi's direction and interpretation. Michael Masi set the standard. Michael Masi directed the procedings. Michael Masi made the calls. Max just did exactly what he was allowed to do. Remember Mercedes were packing umpteen lawyers and a travelling QC with them, but none of their legal entourage could make their case stick and it never even made it to CAS. 

Michael Masi applied the rules as he interpreted them, then Red Bull followed that application. So Red Bull did follow the rules. The fact that the rules were ridiculous isn't Red Bull's fault. The laws are poorly written and leave far too much ambiguity and have shown that there's too much power resting with one man. But again, that's not Red Bull's fault and following them isn't cheating. 

The fault lies squarely with Masi, which is why I'm please he's been sacked. Hopefully they'll take this opportunity to rejig a lot of the rules for the Director. It worked under Whiting, because everyone trusted him to be sensible, but rules have to govern every Director, not just the good ones.

Don't you think his "first world title" will be forever tainted ??? I would hand it back if I were Him.

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7 minutes ago, daveboy said:

Don't you think his "first world title" will be forever tainted ??? I would hand it back if I were Him.

I didn't say it wouldn't be tainted. There will always be questions over it and I bet it's not the way he would have wanted to win it either. But it's still not his fault.

Sports people have been benefitting from creative interpretations of the rules since time immemorial. Whether it's benefitting from a strange call when they go off the track and don't give the place back in F1, or Torvill and Dean playing fast and loose with the rulebook Sarajevo '84. If there's wiggle room in the rulebook, it's a sign of a bad rulebook, but it's not the athletes' fault if they gain from it. 

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2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I didn't say it wouldn't be tainted. There will always be questions over it and I bet it's not the way he would have wanted to win it either. But it's still not his fault.

Sports people have been benefitting from creative interpretations of the rules since time immemorial. Whether it's benefitting from a strange call when they go off the track and don't give the place back in F1, or Torvill and Dean playing fast and loose with the rulebook Sarajevo '84. If there's wiggle room in the rulebook, it's a sign of a bad rulebook, but it's not the athletes' fault if they gain from it. 

Did you see this week where a cricket wicket keeper refused to stump somebody who had been knocked over accidently ??

Or where the football manager made his team give a goal back.....Max should hand the title back....by the way I'm not a 

Hamilton fan......just a F1 fan.....but I like moto GP more.

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Yes, there are of course moments when an athlete goes beyond the fairness in the rules and invokes an ethical fairness. and we applaud them for it and it's always what we want to see. But should we really expect it - particularly over a season when Max and Hamilton have both been behaving so badly? The number of times each got on the radio to complain about the other, only to do exactly the same thing themselves! Should we expect Torvill and Dean to give their iconic gold back because their routine was 30 seconds longer than anyone else was apparently allowed in a 4 minute routine? Sometimes the rules just need to be better.

Edited by chrisjpainter
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Over the year Max should have won if not for the several. " Incident's " with the Mercedes and if the last race was flipped around Mercedes would have done the same and grabbed it with both hands would they not ? They also could have pitted for new tyre's but chose not to.

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57 minutes ago, B725 said:

Over the year Max should have won if not for the several. " Incident's " with the Mercedes and if the last race was flipped around Mercedes would have done the same and grabbed it with both hands would they not ? They also could have pitted for new tyre's but chose not to.

They didn’t need to pit as their strategy was working great and had Latiffi not binned it, then they would have won.

Had the procedures of the FIA been followed to the ‘letter’, then they would have one.

I know all to well the mentality of our Cheese eating friends and even some of those are saying they Mercedes were robbed

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9 hours ago, redial said:

Guy's get over it.

Hamilton will get another chance and probably get his eighth title. 

The people in question are multi millionaires, living the dream. 

Try being on the minimum wage and worrying about fuel / energy bills.

 

I wish I could get over it but my ethics about what's right and what's wrong are too strong. Rules and laws are made by powerful people, usually with an agenda in mind and we peasants have to abide by them but there's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who knows what's right and wrong and still uses bad laws to advantage.

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12 hours ago, toxo said:

I wish I could get over it but my ethics about what's right and what's wrong are too strong. Rules and laws are made by powerful people, usually with an agenda in mind and we peasants have to abide by them but there's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who knows what's right and wrong and still uses bad laws to advantage.

I respect your ethics.

Let's agree to disagree and look forward to the new season.

Just to add, my son is a Hamilton super fan. I had stopped watching F1 in the early 80's.

Then years later my son got the bug. I now have to endure qualifying sessions re-runs of successful Hamilton races, interviews etc etc.

Cheers.

 

 

 

Edited by redial
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10 hours ago, redial said:

I respect your ethics.

Let's agree to disagree and look forward to the new season.

Just to add, my son is a Hamilton super fan. I had stopped watching F1 in the early 80's.

Then years later my son got the bug. I now have to endure qualifying sessions re-runs of successful Hamilton races, interviews etc etc.

Cheers.

 

 

 

When an event that someone has trained hard for and dedicated their lives to can be "won" by politics it's the end of it for me. I won't be watching F1 this year. 

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Should

1 hour ago, toxo said:

When an event that someone has trained hard for and dedicated their lives to can be "won" by politics it's the end of it for me. I won't be watching F1 this year. 

Why not .

Last year is history .

I'm sure Hamilton will be trying to "legaly" stuff verstappen at every opportunity . 

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18 minutes ago, cuffy said:

Why not .

Last year is history . Last year is indeed history because there are many who think as I do and have left F1.

I'm sure Hamilton will be trying to "legaly" stuff verstappen at every opportunity .  There's a chasm of difference between using the rules that are laid down and someone in power changing those rules at the eleventh hour to suit a political agenda. They haven't even sacked the ******** who caused all this. They've given him another position in the FIA.

 

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