Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[oowee]

51 minutes ago, mchughcb said:

 From a legal stand point I understand putin didn't formally enter into the conflict until he recognised the oblasts as republics and then they asked for military assistance. 

 

Really? How could the Oblasts be independent when they were full of rusky provocateur's . How could they ask for assistance when they had no agreed representation? 

[Dave-G]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

...  In other news it looks like greater criticism of Putin is coming from within Russia than from some on here. On the BBC (if you want to believe it eh and don’t think it’s been staged by NATO 😆) - people fleeing the country, roads and flights clogged. Tells you all you need to know about that lovely place and regime.

IF we are to believe it, I can't help but wonder if all those thousands of alleged fighting age draft dodgers queuing at the borders to flee into Georgia have actually been sent to infiltrate and prepare for Russia's take back there too: Said whilst keeping in mind Putin was feinting (SP) while gathering at Ukraine's border last February.

I'm sure I've not explained myself properly there.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Dave-G

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

IF we are to believe it, I can't help but wonder if all those thousands of alleged fighting age draft dodgers queuing at the borders to flee into Georgia have actually been sent to infiltrate and prepare for Russia's take back there too: Said whilst keeping in mind Putin was feinting (SP) while gathering at Ukraine's border last February.

I'm sure I've not explained myself properly there.

Lots of conspiracy theorists here today, perhaps they have infiltrated the UK? <Flying pig emoji here>

[ordnance]

9 hours ago, Dave-G said:

IF we are to believe it, I can't help but wonder if all those thousands of alleged fighting age draft dodgers queuing at the borders to flee into Georgia have actually been sent to infiltrate and prepare for Russia's take back there too: Said whilst keeping in mind Putin was feinting (SP) while gathering at Ukraine's border last February.

I'm sure I've not explained myself properly there.

 Putin \ Russia has failed miserably in Ukraine needing to mobilise reserves, I doubt they have the the ability or capability to take on anything else.   

[Dave-G]

36 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 Putin \ Russia has failed miserably in Ukraine needing to mobilise reserves, I doubt they have the the ability or capability to take on anything else.   

Is that just the narrative of the west though? Or possibly well informed people getting out of a scorched earth zone. I'm mindful that its possibly another wait and see thing given the deceptive way Russia acts.

[ordnance]

43 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Is that just the narrative of the west though? Or possibly well informed people getting out of a scorched earth zone. I'm mindful that its possibly another wait and see thing given the deceptive way Russia acts.

The fact that they had to retreat from Yyiv etc is a fact not just a western narrative. As for the rest i think you are overthinking it, sometimes things just are what they are, young men not wanting to be cannon fodder for Putin, is that so hard to believe. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by ordnance

[Dave-G]

26 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The fact that they had to retreat from Yyiv etc is a fact not just a western narrative. As for the rest i think you are overthinking it, Sometimes things just are what they are, young men not wanting to be cannon fodder for Putin, is that so hard to believe. 

Putins claim of 'exercises' at the border last February was hard to believe too. I'm in no way suggesting its factual, just that I am open minded about almost anything either supporting side reports these days. 

[mchughcb]

Well Europe doesn't have too worry about not using Russian gas anymore to support Ukraine through sanctons as somehow three of their pipes just got taken out. Ukraine accuses Russia of blowing them up.

 

 

[oowee]

It certainly looks like the work of the Russians. Amazingly nearly 100% of the population in the invaded parts of Ukraine want to join Russia. Meanwhile 300000 Russians have fled abroad. Whats is Putin on?

[Mungler]

4 hours ago, mchughcb said:

Well Europe doesn't have too worry about not using Russian gas anymore to support Ukraine through sanctons as somehow three of their pipes just got taken out. Ukraine accuses Russia of blowing them up.

 

 

You know what, if I was Ukraine I would be worried about the Germans buckling and spending a billion a day again with Russia on gas and if I were Ukraine I’d blow up the Russian gas supply pipes to Europe. This has been discussed earlier in this thread.

That said, if I was Putin I’d blow them up too as it stops any plan B mutiny in the Kremlin from being future funded. 

Mind you, them being ‘blown up’ is a better reason for non supply than some BS about a turbine  / broken fan belt 😆

 

7 hours ago, ordnance said:

The fact that they had to retreat from Yyiv etc is a fact not just a western narrative. As for the rest i think you are overthinking it, sometimes things just are what they are, young men not wanting to be cannon fodder for Putin, is that so hard to believe. 

Where’s Reuwolf these days? He’s got all the answers about how the Russian army fights and their tactical retreats 😆😆

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Where’s Reuwolf these days? He’s got all the answers about how the Russian army fights and their tactical retreats

Still trolling I see. 

I'm on holiday, and I've grown tired of the relentless name calling, and childish acchsation of working for Russia 😂

Are you after a war medal for defending Ukraine from Russian bots on PW?😏

So who's blown up the pipeline, who gains the most, and who's always hated the concept of it? 

It's not hard. 

[amateur]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

It certainly looks like the work of the Russians. Amazingly nearly 100% of the population in the invaded parts of Ukraine want to join Russia. Meanwhile 300000 Russians have fled abroad. Whats is Putin on?

Putin must be gutted.

He was expecting a 140% result.

[henry d]

8 hours ago, mchughcb said:

Well Europe doesn't have too worry about not using Russian gas anymore to support Ukraine through sanctons as somehow three of their pipes just got taken out. Ukraine accuses Russia of blowing them up....

IIRC Russia,  sorry Putin...no I mean  Gazprom, closed Nord stream earlier in the month for maintenance so the only gas in the pipeline is lost and that must mean it was Ukraine. Strange that it was just outside of Denmark's territorial waters 

[treetree]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

It certainly looks like the work of the Russians. 

What are you on? (Ah, just seen the Ukrainian colours in your avatar thing).

Please explain to me how Russia benefits from this, the blowing up of a pipeline which provided Russia with huge leverage.

German industry and economy is on its knees. They wouldn't have stood for that for much longer and would have softened their stance and opened talks with Russia to get the gas flowing again (note the German reluctance to send arms too). 

The destruction of these pipelines now takes that off the table. Germany is weakened, Europe is weakened the USA is sitting pretty.

I hate to think what the response to this will be, and if Russia retaliates in a similar fashion, then ther are some very vulnerable Internet cables running along the seabed.

[mchughcb]

On 26/09/2022 at 20:11, oowee said:

Why is it strange? Russia invaded 2014. Ukraine has every right to take whatever actions it deems necessary to protect its country and citizens. There was only very limited and insincere negotiation with broken ceasefires and no external verification. Remember the russian troops pretending to be locals. Since 2014 russia has continued to attack the rest of Ukraine on a daily basis. Russia has refused to instigate a cease fire, or buffer zone. Russia has refused international mediation. 

My Russian speaking Ukrainian refugee is from Donbas which she fled post 2014 following the treatment of residents that did not support the invaders. She has lost everything. 

Dude, you can never be to careful.

 

'Violent' Ukrainian refugee dumped by Brit arrested after fling ends (msn.com)

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

Dude, you can never be to careful.

 

'Violent' Ukrainian refugee dumped by Brit arrested after fling ends (msn.com)

 

You post some truly stupid stuff, but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel. 

Judge a whole country by one individual - only Darwin Dave could stoop so low.

[henry d]

51 minutes ago, mchughcb said:

Dude, you can never be to careful.

 

'Violent' Ukrainian refugee dumped by Brit arrested after fling ends (msn.com)

Ah, MSN...go stand in the corner and think about what you have done 👉

[mchughcb]

😁

[oowee]

2 hours ago, treetree said:

Please explain to me how Russia benefits from this, the blowing up of a pipeline which provided Russia with huge leverage.

 

The destruction of these pipelines now takes that off the table. Germany is weakened, Europe is weakened the USA is sitting pretty.

 

I think you answered your own question. 

No blame no claim. We just need some calmer seas and all will be revealed.

[Mungler]

The sooner we (and I include the Europeans and in particular the Germans) stop buying Putin’s energy, the sooner the world will adjust and the sooner we get to energy independence. It’s going to be rough in the meantime, but it’s a news’s must moment since the Russians have turned the taps off, as is their want.

The blowing up bit is neutral right now since nothing was coming out the pipe and no one should have been buying it. 

I haven’t checked the map, but how would these explosions fit into the threat to divert the pipeline from Russia? 

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

but how would these explosions fit into the threat to divert the pipeline from Russia?

It has been suggested that since the explosions occurred the same day as the new pipeline from Norway to supply Poland with Norwegian gas started operating, this was Putin saying "if I can blow up mine - then I can just as easily blow up yours".

It's crazy, but then so was invading Ukraine.

[Dave-G]

I don't get what was bubbling up in the sea if gas wasn't being pumped through them pipes.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Dave-G

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

this was Putin saying "if I can blow up mine - then I can just as easily blow up yours".

It's crazy, but then so was invading Ukraine

Yes it's crazy, imagine if 'someone' did blow up the Norwegian pipeline, then it would be the Russians. 

But if 'someone' blows up the Russian pipeline, its still the Russians 😂

Why would they need to permanently take out the pipelines, both of them, when they can just stop pumping? Or say they need a turbine? 

The mere fact that no western media will consider any culprit for it except Russia, should tell you everything you need to know. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Yes it's crazy, imagine if 'someone' did blow up the Norwegian pipeline, then it would be the Russians.

Putin does crazy things ......... like invading Ukraine in the first place.  There was nothing to be gained - and all to lose.

It is clear that he cannot just 'walk in and be welcomed' as it was suggested he had been led to believe.  

If he does effectively 'occupy' land, there will be permanent terrorist activity and ongoing loss of life and a huge military occupying force will be needed.  Russia will eventually suffer FAR greater economic harm than anywhere except possibly Ukraine (which will receive massive rebuilding aid when the war is resolved). 

Meanwhile Russia has massively damaged itself in the long run - and gained nothing.  He cannot win. 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Putin does crazy things ......... like invading Ukraine in the first place.  There was nothing to be gained - and all to lose

Not disputing that, but to remove one of his best bargaining chip from the equation? 

I rather see it as someone removing the chip for him. But that might be a bit too 'conspiracy' for some on here, even though its the most obvious?