Windswept Posted July 24, 2022 Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 I've never had case mouths like that apart from the time I shot some 3" carts in a 2.5" gun. Are the cartridges too long at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Windswept said: I've never had case mouths like that apart from the time I shot some 3" carts in a 2.5" gun. Are the cartridges too long at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted July 24, 2022 Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Windswept said: I've never had case mouths like that apart from the time I shot some 3" carts in a 2.5" gun. Are the cartridges too long at all? The only time I have seen cases like that was a friend’s 16 bore when he fired supposedly safe cartridges labelled 67mm in his 2 1/2 inch 65mm chamber. The gun was fine with genuine 65mm cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windswept Posted July 24, 2022 Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 20 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Is that 2 3/4" or slightly over? My Lyalvale 3" 410 rto carts are bang on 70mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Windswept said: Is that 2 3/4" or slightly over? My Lyalvale 3" 410 rto carts are bang on 70mm. 70mm hope you don’t have any trouble with yours 21 minutes ago, London Best said: The only time I have seen cases like that was a friend’s 16 bore when he fired supposedly safe cartridges labelled 67mm in his 2 1/2 inch 65mm chamber. The gun was fine with genuine 65mm cases. I’ve seen it a few years ago and it was caused by the lack of wax on the wad’s it’s definitely a 3 inch chamber gun and I have 500 fiochie cases for reloding that I fired through it without any issues other than that the were plastic wad not acceptable for my game shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windswept Posted July 24, 2022 Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Old farrier said: 70mm hope you don’t have any trouble with yours Mine are a few years old and subsonic, never had a problem or anything more than a slightly distorted mouth in any of my 410s (in the right chamber). I certainly wouldn't be happy shooting those and appreciate you raising the issue. Hope you get it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 Just had a message from my supplier he was shooting today and heard the rumbling from the people I was holding up trying to get the cases out 😡 return them to him for a full refund so my supplier is doing the right thing and to be fair to him it’s not his fault hopefully he’ll get express to sort out the issue I would think anyone who has been having a issue should take them back to the supplier there’s obviously a problem with this batch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted July 24, 2022 Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Old farrier said: Just had a message from my supplier he was shooting today and heard the rumbling from the people I was holding up trying to get the cases out 😡 return them to him for a full refund so my supplier is doing the right thing and to be fair to him it’s not his fault hopefully he’ll get express to sort out the issue I would think anyone who has been having a issue should take them back to the supplier there’s obviously a problem with this batch Perfect . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Windswept said: Is that 2 3/4" or slightly over? My Lyalvale 3" 410 rto carts are bang on 70mm. case lengths are measured when empty so a 3” is 76mm as would be the guns chamber length, it matters not what the length of the loaded cartridge is, unless i am miss understanding you. I have experienced case mouth damage especially in .410 with fibre wads but it was not an issue on their performance. Good result from the supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: I have experienced case mouth damage especially in .410 with fibre wads but it was not an issue on their performance. Did they have Over Powder Cards or were they just fibre wads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Did they have Over Powder Cards or were they just fibre wads? Back then they were home loads using cork wads, but not loaded .410 for some years now, preferring 28ga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Did they have Over Powder Cards or were they just fibre wads? Just fibre wads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windswept Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said: case lengths are measured when empty so a 3” is 76mm as would be the guns chamber length, it matters not what the length of the loaded cartridge is, unless i am miss understanding you. I was just going on the photo provided of the unfired case, it appeared to be a bit longer than what I have. However, I note the Lyalvale 3" .410s are 73mm cases so I doubt length is an issue. I also note Lyalvale are still listed double base flake powder is used in their .410s which doesn't seem to match the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 I'm informed they have just been taken over by Fiocchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Walker570 said: I'm informed they have just been taken over by Fiocchi. Then I will just have to change my cartridge supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Old farrier said: Just fibre wads Glad you are getting rid back to supplier, just relying on a fibre wad to seal without an OPC is a bad design in this day and age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Glad you are getting rid back to supplier, just relying on a fibre wad to seal without an OPC is a bad design in this day and age. But surely that is not the reason for the heads parting company upon firing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Walker570 said: I'm informed they have just been taken over by Fiocchi. https://fiocchi.com/en/blog/post/fiocchi-group-announces-acquisition-lyalvale-express/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: But surely that is not the reason for the heads parting company upon firing? No, the opposite, by not having an OPC seal above the powder, even with the additional volume of the space within the shot column area and with just a loose fitting fibre wad in place, the powder is not constrained as it should be, yet the cartridges are still showing over pressure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 29 minutes ago, Stonepark said: No, the opposite, by not having an OPC seal above the powder, even with the additional volume of the space within the shot column area and with just a loose fitting fibre wad in place, the powder is not constrained as it should be, yet the cartridges are still showing over pressure! That explains it very well. Now for Lyalvale Express to step up to the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, Stonepark said: No, the opposite, by not having an OPC seal above the powder, even with the additional volume of the space within the shot column area and with just a loose fitting fibre wad in place, the powder is not constrained as it should be, yet the cartridges are still showing over pressure! Thanks for the explanation 👍 it is a confidence thing with cartridges not only one that you like but one that suits your gun and the targets you are shooting at sadly this product fell short of my expectations for a premium game cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stonepark said: No, the opposite, by not having an OPC seal above the powder, even with the additional volume of the space within the shot column area and with just a loose fitting fibre wad in place, the powder is not constrained as it should be, yet the cartridges are still showing over pressure! I don’t know hence the question; is there any possibility that the damaged cases are as a result of escaping hot gas/burning powder and not just over pressure. I ask because, A, as said I don’t know and, B, if the answer is possibly/ probably/yes you are also now in the additional problem area of balling shot. Edited July 25, 2022 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 24/07/2022 at 20:43, Walker570 said: Burned ends to cases are quite common in 410s And...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 At first I was concerned but the result at the receiving end was good. These where factory loads. My own reloads using once fired Fiocchi cases the edge of the case gets 'heat treated' and crinkles but does not burn off. as badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 OF - might I suggest that you retain some of the worst fired cartridge cases and also a decent number of unfired ones from the same lot/box, although returning the bulk of them to dealer. If you find, at a later date, evidence of barrel damage eg pressure bulge in front of chamber/cone area it may be prudent to have retained in your possession some of the cartridges which were causing the problem. Might even be no bad thing to have your guns checked by a competent gunsmith to allay any fears. Better sooner than later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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