Vaccine Effectiveness?

[Scully]

Like any virus it effects different people in different ways. Those who are at high risk of the effects of any virus will probably be hit harder, but with this bug there’s no telling.
Who knows if NOT having the jab will lessen symptoms, or vice versa? 
My flu jab left me with nothing but a sore arm, but a local is knocked out following hers to the extent she won’t have it anymore. 🤷‍♂️
 

[ordnance]

On 24/08/2022 at 20:29, serrac said:

Why not treat us all to a devastating take-down of the FACTS presented in these articles?
Oh right, you can't, because they are facts not arguments so they stand as evidence you made a false statement. 
Own it for once.
 

One persons opinion doesn't make it FACT, I could post numerous experts that would state how effect the polio vaccine is. But you believe what you want the post is about the Covid vaccine, and people can take it or not their choice. 

Polio - NHS

Quote

Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against paralytic polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by ordnance

[serrac]

14 hours ago, ordnance said:

One persons opinion doesn't make it FACT, I could post numerous experts that would state how effect the polio vaccine is.

Your numerous experts faith in the polio vaccine doesn't create a fact either, given there's also numerous experts who demur. 

It is however a fact that vaccine derived polio virus keeps popping up around the world - lately found in London and New York sewers.  This is not a trivial issue.

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.325_660

But you believe what you want the post is about the Covid vaccine, and people can take it or not their choice.

Then why did you interject an unsubstantiated claim about the role of the Polio vaccine in wiping out Polio infections into the thread?

 

14 hours ago, ordnance said:

Polio - NHS

How is this calculated?  Is it referring to relative or absolute risk reduction?  What is the number of vaccinations required to prevent one infection?  As we've seen with the covid jab, % claims of effectiveness don't always amount to a hill of beans in the real world.

 

[ordnance]

3 hours ago, serrac said:

 

 

Yeah, as I said people are free to take it or leave it.

[RyanMc]

16 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Yeah, as I said people are free to take it or leave it.

But was it, really? Threats and sackings from places of work, unable to travel to support family even relatively close/same country. Unable to attend events for a while etc. Still can't travel to USA, all because of having a choice to take or not take an on the face of it in terms of stopping /prevention of sickness vaccine. 

All I see is a desperate attempt to maintain a fragile grip to whatever power those in governments seemed to gain over natural human fear of the unknown. 

My opinion on the matter only. Not to be forced on anyone, an argument or have to accept it, just putting it out there. 

[tweedledee]

On 28/08/2022 at 17:09, RyanMc said:

But was it, really? Threats and sackings from places of work, unable to travel to support family even relatively close/same country. Unable to attend events for a while etc. Still can't travel to USA, all because of having a choice to take or not take an on the face of it in terms of stopping /prevention of sickness vaccine. 

All I see is a desperate attempt to maintain a fragile grip to whatever power those in governments seemed to gain over natural human fear of the unknown. 

My opinion on the matter only. Not to be forced on anyone, an argument or have to accept it, just putting it out there. 

Totally agree!!! 

[Rewulf]

Sobering...

 

[RyanMc]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Sobering...

 

Sure the amount of U-turns had everyone dizzier than a drunk in a brewery!!

[enfieldspares]

On 22/08/2022 at 11:14, RyanMc said:

It was framed that they would prevent infection and all symptoms, but quickly became apparent they didn't, part of the flip flop of information over the last couple of years.

Just the same as when individuals get sick to varying degrees same with the vaccines. Some have no effects others have severe reactions.

Personal choice is the key in my opinion.

My Parents and in-law's have said they wont touch it for a 4th dose...

This. Another Boris Johnson blather and bluff. I had covid and had a day of 'flu like symptoms and then nine days of boredom wondering why I wasn't dead.

I had, later, Johnson's "all British Brexit beating" snake oil aka Astra-Zeneca and had three days of irregular heartbeat and night sweats. Such that when I telephoned my GP on the third day he advised I was likely having a stroke and he summoned an ambulance on the 999 service.

I was taken to the nearest Coronary Dependency Unit and told not a stroke but a severe reaction to AZ, That I wasn't the first and wouldn't be the last that they had had the same. And to no book to have a heart scan.

It has given me myocarditis. I am not a tinfoil hat wearer and indeed have my Yellow Fever and rabies shots when needed. But Johnson's vaccine isn't.

It is mere "pots and pans for Spitfires" no more no less. A programme to make the gullible think that something was being done. It is no more a vaccine that my cat's urine is.

And yet the gullible "sheeple" now bleat, now it's been shown that it doesn't stop you catching covid. that, I quote, "Ah but even though you now did get covid if you hadn't had AZ you could have died".

On 22/08/2022 at 14:40, Rewulf said:

AZ and Pfizer vaccines were originally quoted as 95 % 'effective' , what they were effective at is debateable, but they certainly werent 95 % or anything like it for stopping you catching it.
The percentage rate fell rapidly under the hard data of infections, and morphed into 'more effective at keeping you out of hospital'
Queue a report that Pfizer for one fiddled the trial data.

Then last year we got omicron , and while generally milder, the vaccines were even less effective.
The current gen 5 predominant omicron variant is suggested (no hard data available) to be around 20 % effective, again , effective at stopping you from becoming seriously ill, dying ?
Around 150 people a day die from it, and 1000 a day hospitalised, with an estimated 15 % chance of catching it again within 6 months , jabbed or not.

Basically , boosters are a waste of time until a specific vaccine is available, but by then , we are likely to have a newer variant (in time for Christmas)
Vaccine development and testing takes 6 months minimum , the virus outruns development in most cases.
So jab to your hearts content, but it is extremely unlikely to stop you catching covid, and its a lottery with low odds it will have much effect on symptoms.

This. 100%. See my post on this thread. It's "pots and pans for Spitfires" no more no less.

[ordnance]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Sobering...

 

Russell Brand 😂 you are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

 

On 28/08/2022 at 17:09, RyanMc said:

But was it, really? Threats and sackings from places of work, unable to travel to support family even relatively close/same country. Unable to attend events for a while etc. Still can't travel to USA, all because of having a choice to take or not take an on the face of it in terms of stopping /prevention of sickness vaccine. 

All I see is a desperate attempt to maintain a fragile grip to whatever power those in governments seemed to gain over natural human fear of the unknown. 

My opinion on the matter only. Not to be forced on anyone, an argument or have to accept it, just putting it out there. 

I was talking about now not the past, so as I said it's people's choice take it or leave it. As for travel, countries can put in whatever restrictions they want, nothing can be done about that.

Edited August 30, 2022 by ordnance

[ordnance]

On 22/08/2022 at 14:40, Rewulf said:

AZ and Pfizer vaccines were originally quoted as 95 % 'effective' , what they were effective at is debateable, but they certainly werent 95 % or anything like it for stopping you catching it.
The percentage rate fell rapidly under the hard data of infections, and morphed into 'more effective at keeping you out of hospital'
Queue a report that Pfizer for one fiddled the trial data.

Then last year we got omicron , and while generally milder, the vaccines were even less effective.
The current gen 5 predominant omicron variant is suggested (no hard data available) to be around 20 % effective, again , effective at stopping you from becoming seriously ill, dying ?
Around 150 people a day die from it, and 1000 a day hospitalised, with an estimated 15 % chance of catching it again within 6 months , jabbed or not.

Basically , boosters are a waste of time until a specific vaccine is available, but by then , we are likely to have a newer variant (in time for Christmas)
Vaccine development and testing takes 6 months minimum , the virus outruns development in most cases.
So jab to your hearts content, but it is extremely unlikely to stop you catching covid, and its a lottery with low odds it will have much effect on symptoms.

We're they not quoted as having 95  percent efficacy, not 95 percent effective.

Edited August 30, 2022 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

Russell Brand 😂 you are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth. 

I don't like him either, but his points are valid, he's quoting ONS stats, are they false, inaccurate, or is it the message they carry you don't like? 

 

95 % effective or efficacy? Can't remember now, but whatever they said they were wrong/lying anyway 😂

Edited August 30, 2022 by Rewulf

[ordnance]

Quote

95 % effective or efficacy? Can't remember now, but whatever they said they were wrong/lying anyway

That was for the original Covid virus, the flu vaccine is tweaked every year depending on what version is in circulation why would Covid be any different.  As for Brand he is talking about policies lockdowns etc more than vaccine's, I have no doubts they got some policies wrong. Its easy to criticise after the fact, I wonder what he would have done if he was in power and had to make the decisions. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

That was for the original Covid virus, the flu vaccine is tweaked every year depending on what version is in circulation why would Covid be any different.  As for Brand he is talking about policies lockdowns etc more than vaccine's, I have no doubts they got some policies wrong. Its easy to criticise after the fact, I wonder what he would have done if he was in power and had to make the decisions. 

So we've gone from rubbishing Brands video, to making excuses for the governments spending of half a trillion quid, on measures that didn't really work? 

 

[ordnance]

On 31/08/2022 at 00:09, Rewulf said:

So we've gone from rubbishing Brands video, to making excuses for the governments spending of half a trillion quid, on measures that didn't really work? 

 

Yes i am sure you would have done better if you were making the decisions, as for Brand why would i take any notice or place any value on anything he had to say. 

[Penelope]

Watch his stuff and learn a few things.

My opinion of him has changed since I have done. I always thought he was a gob****e, ex smack head from Grays.

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, ordnance said:

Yes i am sure you would have done better if you were making the decisions

Well thats a very poor waffle attempt at misdirection 

15 hours ago, ordnance said:

as for Brand why would i take any notice or place any value on anything he had to say. 

Why would place your trust in Boris , Van Tam , or Whitty ?
Did they not spout some utter rubbish ? What about Ferguson , with his 'modelling' ?
Trust who you like , but dont think you 'know' who to trust, its a shadowy world out there.

[Scully]

Meanwhile in China, millions are in lockdown. 🤷‍♂️

[RyanMc]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Meanwhile in China, millions are in lockdown. 🤷‍♂️

Bit of Einsteins definition of insanity going on here... 

[Rewulf]

Dont know whether this is even relevant anymore, or even if the source is legit, just thought Id put it out there.

https://www.cureus.com/articles/111851-regular-use-of-ivermectin-as-prophylaxis-for-covid-19-led-up-to-a-92-reduction-in-covid-19-mortality-rate-in-a-dose-response-manner-results-of-a-prospective-observational-study-of-a-strictly-controlled-population-of-88012-subjects?fbclid=IwAR0IDPF502cpvJuthZMtNU3VpSTv0h0cqbqdo0TzdzQgOEzYjiu8cw22a_c

Maybe someone with better knowledge can have a look.

 

[Fisheruk]

On 22/08/2022 at 08:32, bruno22rf said:

So, after 5 shots of the above I ended up in Hospital with Covid and tested positive for 16 days, does it actually work?

You’d probably be dead if you hadn’t.

A good friend of mine who has had a heart transplant, caught Covid a few weeks ago and didn’t know she had had it until her new heart started playing up. 
She went into hospital and after they had stabilised her heart they have said she is back to normal. 
 

They think it would have been a different story without the vaccination.

 

 

 

 

[Newbie to this]

40 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

You’d probably be dead if you hadn’t.

Or not, who knows.

40 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

They think it would have been a different story without the vaccination.

Think being the key word. Again who knows.

[Alank]

No inoculations. 
 

Had it (probably Omicron) in April. A day and a half of headaches and chills followed by a week of heavy cold symptoms. 
 

I have reduced stamina due to mobility and hernia issues and it took a week or two to get back to previous abilities. 
 

If they come up with a traditional viral vaccine (like measel, smallpox, rabies etc) then I will have it, but I have no interest in mRNA or Viral Vector inoculations. 

[bruno22rf]

50 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

You’d probably be dead if you hadn’t.

A good friend of mine who has had a heart transplant, caught Covid a few weeks ago and didn’t know she had had it until her new heart started playing up. 
She went into hospital and after they had stabilised her heart they have said she is back to normal. 
 

They think it would have been a different story without the vaccination.

 

 

 

 

Very difficult to prove conclusively. They stopped my immunosuppressants to allow my natural defences to deal with the covid but this left my transplanted organs at risk. As an aside, people often talk about losing their sense of taste, I didn't lose mine but most food did, and still does, taste so awful as to stop me wanting to eat, hence I have lost 10kg in 8 weeks.

[Fisheruk]

5 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Very difficult to prove conclusively. They stopped my immunosuppressants to allow my natural defences to deal with the covid but this left my transplanted organs at risk. As an aside, people often talk about losing their sense of taste, I didn't lose mine but most food did, and still does, taste so awful as to stop me wanting to eat, hence I have lost 10kg in 8 weeks.

But you’re pulling through. That’s the important thing. 👍👏