What to look for in Labrador Pups?

[nabbers]

I see big labs and shorter labs, stocky and more graceful looking ones.    Theres a couple I see near here that are shorter in stature, and proportionally smaller in the head and very well mannered, and I hear excellent at picking up.   I think that is the type I want to go for.     Next time I see them out I'm going to enquire about their bloodline, but I wondered what the more experienced Labrador people on here feel is the best way of working out what a pup will turn into when it is fully grown.    My last bitch who recently died grew up to resemble half spaniel in looks and temperament, despite me seeing both parents and a friend buying her brother who was all Lab.    I sometimes wonder if she got slipped in from another litter!    

So what do you look for when you choose?  

[Lloyd90]

Parents doing the job you want your dog to do … ESPECIALLY the bitch / bitch line. 
 

There’s plenty of people out there with bitches that are average or should have never been bred from, who stick the latest in fashion stud dog on the bitch and then tell you how fantastic the ancestry is. 
 

Look a for a bitch the size / stamp and ability you are hoping for … and also consider what you want the dog to do.

 

Someone who goes picking up on the local estate just on Saturdays for the season and doesn’t do much in the off season probably doesn’t want the same type or breeding as someone who goes out wildfowling on coastal marshes sending a dog through thick / deep mud, up steep banks etc etc. 

 

 

One of the wildfowling lads asked for really hard going driven dog that would just crack on and get the job done when sent… we found him one, that’s what he got and then he struggled to train it. 

[Dave at kelton]

It’s almost impossible short of finding a dog that exhibits all of the traits you are looking for, and we are all different, and looking at that bloodline. Even then pups from the same litter turn out differently so a bit of a lottery. 
l look for a good solid dog that has innate working ability, intelligence and is calm. I avoid red ink in the immediate couple of generations as I don’t want a field trial fire cracker. I also prefer to know the breeder is producing good dogs on a regular basis. They will have taken care in the mating. After that it is the usual health tests.

if it is your first dog I would shy away from field trial stock that may be too hot for you to handle. If you can get out and see some dogs working or get to the local gundog club it would be a good start. Also ask around for recommendations. If you pm me I will let you have some as you are not that far from SWScotland. 
 

Good luck

 

3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Parents doing the job you want your dog to do … ESPECIALLY the bitch / bitch line. 
 

There’s plenty of people out there with bitches that are average or should have never been bred from, who stick the latest in fashion stud dog on the bitch and then tell you how fantastic the ancestry is. 
 

Look a for a bitch the size / stamp and ability you are hoping for … and also consider what you want the dog to do.

 

Someone who goes picking up on the local estate just on Saturdays for the season and doesn’t do much in the off season probably doesn’t want the same type or breeding as someone who goes out wildfowling on coastal marshes sending a dog through thick / deep mud, up steep banks etc etc. 

 

 

One of the wildfowling lads asked for really hard going driven dog that would just crack on and get the job done when sent… we found him one, that’s what he got and then he struggled to train it. 

Agree totally with this. I pickup and go fowling and whilst they all do both I look for different traits in my principal fowling dog to my picking up team who are out three days a week throughout the season.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Dave at kelton

[CaptC]

Very coincidental that this post came up - I'm on my 8th Lab, the only one (despite researching and buying from "reputable" breeders) who actually passed his hip score. One breeder, a Field Trial judge didn't want to know that the dog she had bred was off the scale.

My present Lab was out yesterday, he's nearly nine and this will be his last season as this morning he is very lame. Obviously hip and shoulder joints - The Memsahib and I have had (for once) a serious discussion about a replacement. A Springer/Cocker - no as "too messy when wet" so a Springador was mooted? Any one with experience?

During my long shooting life I've seen Labs change in style and shape from chunky dogs to near whippets - thanks to Field Trials. Fast and stylish is the present dog type but not for me!

[nabbers]

Thanks Dave and Lloyd for the above.  Some good advice there.

I've had three Labs, A big Male with lots of Drakeshead in his bloodline, he was bold and clever.    A lovely bitch who was long legged and never developed into much more than a house pet and good friend.   And then the one I have just lost to a tumour at 14.  She came from a gamekeeper in Dent and despite the pedigree chart,  I think a spaniel had got in on the mix somewhere because she had a spaniel head and short legs and was a terrific hunter for walked up game and a good retriever, but was always a bit anxious until 7 years after which she became amazing, I later wondered if she had been put in with the  litter from another because when we went back a week later with a friend who wanted her brother, the dogs left in the litter had grown massively compared to mine in that week the fellas mum said "you must not have been feeding her!".   

CaptC - Yes, Fast and stylish not for me either.    

[adzyvilla]

My 'main' labrador (picking up/beating) could possibly be mistaken for a greyhound at a distance, and at 24kgs is at the light end of the scale, but she's super fit and has a fantastic engine. Some of her litter mates ended up being proper chunks, and one is now weighing in at over 40kgs, but doesn't have an ounce of fat on him, but they all went to working homes and I still see most of them at least once during the season. When looking for a pup, I am never overly concerned with pedigree, in fact my best dog was a 'happy mistake' and turned into a super all rounder. You never know what you will get, pedigree will only tell you some of the story, i think most of it comes with training.

My other lab is a lovely little soul and came from supposedly better lines than my other dog but has never really come on, despite my best efforts and some help from professional trainers. Shes happy dogging in or messing about but doesn't have the discipline to do more. But shes very affectionate for a bitch so great with the family, where the other one is all business and very aloof.

Capt C, my dad currently has a springerdor, and it is his second one, although I don't really remember the first one as it was nearly 35 years ago. Its odd looking, like a big jet black springer with labrador ears and muzzle. Started out as a promising picking up dog, but developed a fear of gun fire at around 2 years old which he never got to the bottom of and became a nervous wreck so no longer works. Shame as at 76 he's unlikely to have another now and always considers the dog a failure although it's not the animals fault.

[CaptC]

Very interesting adzyvilla - A lot if discusion here at base camp about a replacement dog as the present Lab has only just stopped limping from Saturdays's efforts.

Thank you re the Springador - It seems now that I'm allowed to have another Lab (Memsahib's overuled me) so after Christmas the hunt (excuse the feeble pun) will start.

[adzyvilla]

I'm thinking of having a litter from my main dog in the new year so I will keep you posted, but its only a possibility at the moment.

[CaptC]

Most kind - I'm not looking for a racehorse or a dog that can walk on two legs. Just a bit of a plodder like me!

[Lloyd90]

On 20/11/2022 at 11:16, CaptC said:

Very coincidental that this post came up - I'm on my 8th Lab, the only one (despite researching and buying from "reputable" breeders) who actually passed his hip score. One breeder, a Field Trial judge didn't want to know that the dog she had bred was off the scale.

My present Lab was out yesterday, he's nearly nine and this will be his last season as this morning he is very lame. Obviously hip and shoulder joints - The Memsahib and I have had (for once) a serious discussion about a replacement. A Springer/Cocker - no as "too messy when wet" so a Springador was mooted? Any one with experience?

During my long shooting life I've seen Labs change in style and shape from chunky dogs to near whippets - thanks to Field Trials. Fast and stylish is the present dog type but not for me!

 

Interesting results you have had. Genetics can play a part in hip damage / scores but I think so can environment etc? 

If you had 7 out of 8 labs with bad hips (unless I've read that wrong), despite all the parents scoring well... do you think the environment impacted them at all?

Hopefully not but it's worth considering maybe.

Do your labs do a lot of jumping or something when young? Or up and down the stairs in the house / outside steps? 

I used to have big arguments with the Mrs letting our young dogs in the house and running up and down (mostly down is the worst) the stairs.

She would moan it was fine but after doing it the dog did limp a bit for a few days and she soon stopped letting him.

 

 

Re the springerdor ... there are many stories of 'hybrid vigour' and the owners of such dogs will tell you how they are better than a purebred quite often ... although there is always the possibility of the worst of both breeds ... and the owners who get that mix aren't publicising it like the owners of any half decent ones are. 

 

I also find it amusing when we have owners of mix breed dogs, who profess very heavily, that their dog could wipe the floor with any trial champion ... if only they were allowed to run their non KC dog in trials ... I have seen lots of this sort of behaviour ... yet when you see the dogs in action, they'd often be lucky to even finish a trial if they were allowed to run. 

I think my point on that is, be careful on taking the owners word on the working ability of their dog, see the dog for yourself and make your mind up based on true merit. 

 

 

There are still the old type labs out there as well, probably better off looking at them. Have seen some recent, big poweful stamps, not the whippety snipey headed ones we sometimes see. Surprisingly though, some of these big powerful dogs that I have seen have been trial bred ... not all trial lines are the same as there's some decent stuff still out there  

 

 

[CaptC]

Very interesting. 
None of my Labradors were allowed upstairs, they all lived “in” and up to 12 months old were discouraged from jumping or vigorous exercise. 
We’ve lived in various houses including farming in France so it’s not the home environment - just bad luck. 
It looks as if a mixed breed is out following discussion here last night. Another Labrador looks likely. 
I should add that all the dogs were/are fed on premium dog food so it’s not dietary. The oldest lived to 12. 

[mgsontour]

Or find a young dog that you like and persuade the owner to sell it to you

[adzyvilla]

23 hours ago, CaptC said:

Most kind - I'm not looking for a racehorse or a dog that can walk on two legs. Just a bit of a plodder like me!

Goodness me, my dogs aren't anything like that! I do my best, but I think any ability mine have had is by accident more than anything!

[CaptC]

I think a lot of it is pure luck. I’ve seen litters from top (?) breeders churn out mediocre dogs and Joe Blogg’s turn out gems. 

[marsh man]

12 hours ago, CaptC said:

Very interesting. 
None of my Labradors were allowed upstairs, they all lived “in” and up to 12 months old were discouraged from jumping or vigorous exercise. 
We’ve lived in various houses including farming in France so it’s not the home environment - just bad luck. 
It looks as if a mixed breed is out following discussion here last night. Another Labrador looks likely. 
I should add that all the dogs were/are fed on premium dog food so it’s not dietary. The oldest lived to 12. 

I have had the same amount of Labs , mostly the big bold chunky type and my present one is a big dog but fairly thin around the leg area , my early ones mainly came from game keepers without hip scores , the first four I had I was still doing some shooting with them at 12 years old and the oldest one I had put down was nearly 14 , then the more I got into hip scores the earlier the dog seem to show signs of lameness , maybe like you I was just unlucky , my last one was the best looking Lab I have had , a big broad head like a Bull , he started to go lame at around seven and he just made it to 10 , my one now haven't been to the vets since he had his first booster jab and he haven't been back since , he is used for wild fowling , rough shooting , pigeon shooting and picking up on our local estate , now he is 7 1/2 and after a days work he is started to get as stiff as a board and although the next day he is fine I think the writing is on the wall , we are giving him two You Move tablets a day and hopefully he will carry on for another year or two but I doubt he will break any records for being my oldest working dog .

[CaptC]

I think you have a very good point about hip scores, the better the score the quicker they developed problems. 
My present dog is a real “looker”, much admired by people he meets but elbow joints the size of tennis balls. 
My dog’s average life span 9 - 10 years. 
Bumble is also like the proverbial board and it’s only today he’s stopped limping from last Saturdays work. 

[12gauge82]

The first thing I look for in any working dog is its drive, secondly I assess their focus on me. I can usually work with any other issues, but it really depends on the individual, for an inexperienced owner a dog with bags of drive and nothing else could end up an out of control mess, in other words you wouldn't give a ferrari to someone who is just learning how to drive. 

[CaptC]

There is a lot of truth in the above but how do you know any dog has "drive" when it's a puppy? Getting their focus is paramount and I have been lucky so far -- 

[ditchman]

On 22/11/2022 at 19:34, CaptC said:

I think a lot of it is pure luck. I’ve seen litters from top (?) breeders churn out mediocre dogs and Joe Blogg’s turn out gems. 

thats about the truth.........thats why it is so difficult...and you can say that about most breeds....and it is an eyewatering price to start with and very often ends up in tears..

[CaptC]

There's a litter of non registered Labs going here for £600 a pup - good working dogs apparently but no idea of hip scores etc so I'm leaving them 

[ditchman]

ive always bought my dogs from people i know ...i can see their parents working...never bought out of a broud mare........in order to do that you need to know alot of folk with dogs (working ) in the first place.....which is a non-starter for most people

[CaptC]

I qualify for knowing a lot of dog owners who have, mostly, unruly dogs - unfortunately age is getting to all of them so their present dog is likely going to be their last!

As one gets older the circle tightens

[Walker570]

On 22/11/2022 at 21:00, CaptC said:

I think you have a very good point about hip scores, the better the score the quicker they developed problems. 
My present dog is a real “looker”, much admired by people he meets but elbow joints the size of tennis balls. 
My dog’s average life span 9 - 10 years. 
Bumble is also like the proverbial board and it’s only today he’s stopped limping from last Saturdays work. 

That looks like a proper Labrador. Most I see in the last 20yrs have looked like their mothers had been scared by a lurcher, thin coats snipey noses and curly tails. Rarely see a lab these days with a proper otter tail.  BUT if the dog does the job and is fit and healthy go for it, in fact I have seen a few crossbreds which would put field trialers to shame.

[CaptC]

It’s all down to “fashion” similar to the craze for 32” barrels to shoot birds at 30 yards. 
Field Trial judges must take a lot of the blame as “modern” Labradors look like a cross between a collie and a greyhound. Unfortunately the problem of hip dysplasia and arthritis has stayed with them. 

[12gauge82]

14 hours ago, CaptC said:

There is a lot of truth in the above but how do you know any dog has "drive" when it's a puppy? Getting their focus is paramount and I have been lucky so far -- 

It's not an exact science, but you can usually tell by the way they play and interact with both you and their litter mates.