Middle class housing crisis

[Lloyd90]

Working in an emergency team, we are currently seeing lots more people with housing issues that previously we wouldn’t have seen. 
 

Historically we would pretty much solely deal with women (we do cover men also if needed) fleeing domestic violence… people who were vulnerable with a crisis … people/families who were victims of natural disaster etc. 

 

We would usually house people who are classed as an “priority need” out of hours until the daytime housing team can give them a proper full assessment. 
 

Unfortunately we are seeing an increase in cases like this highlighted by the BBC:  

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-63694797

 

It’s interesting that the woman’s view is that she is going to end up homeless… entirely through no fault of her own. 
 

Bristol rents / house prices have gone up significantly … as they have in lots of other areas. 
 

A nurse with her likely level of experience should be on around £33k + OOH enhancements on top … plus whatever her husband earns. 
 

I just wondered what the wider view is? 
 

Is it entirely her own fault? 
 

Is it not her fault in anyway? 
 

Should she have not had 4 kids by choice? 
 

Should she have to face reality and move somewhere where housing is more affordable? Not everyone gets to live in a major city. 
 

I imagine with 4 kids to feed, house, cloth and entertain they do spend all of their monthly income … but then is that their own fault for having 4 kids when they weren’t even home owners? 
 

Seems a tough position … in the past we wouldn’t see so much of an issue … I know plenty of people similar to her … they’d moan about not getting on the property ladder but would at least be able to afford the rent somewhere. 

[old'un]

the article is a little sparse on detail to make any judgment.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, if it is private renting , then most to do with greedy landlords

[Lloyd90]

12 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, if it is private renting , then most to do with greedy landlords

Is it? 
 

Interest rates have gone up across the board … would we expect landlords to rent out homes at a loss? 
 

Or do you mean we shouldn’t have private landlords?

 

If there weren’t any “greedy landlords” … where would she live then? 
 

She clearly as states doesn’t meet the criteria for a council house … and she clearly hasn’t got round to saving enough to buy her own house … so who fills the gap? 
 

I was in the same position when I finished Uni, my partner and I both worked, we’d of never got a council house … but weren’t in a position to buy … we private rented and the landlord was brilliant … bridged the gap between leaving home / uni and being a home owner. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

Is it? 
 

Interest rates have gone up across the board … would we expect landlords to rent out homes at a loss? 
 

Or do you mean we shouldn’t have private landlords?

 

If there weren’t any “greedy landlords” … where would she live then? 
 

She clearly as states doesn’t meet the criteria for a council house … and she clearly hasn’t got round to saving enough to buy her own house … so who fills the gap? 
 

I was in the same position when I finished Uni, my partner and I both worked, we’d of never got a council house … but weren’t in a position to buy … we private rented and the landlord was brilliant … bridged the gap between leaving home / uni and being a home owner. 

Hello, there are exceptions within the private renting and landlords, 

[rbrowning2]

selling council house all those years back to the tenants was always going to be a bad long term decision especially as the money was not used to build replacements. Councils considered it a win, win situation brought in some needed cash and no longer responsible for maintaining the property and the private sector would fill the cap, which now costs us all in billions every year in housing benefit.

Private sector is always about profit, not about ensuring a long term home for a person or family.  Affordable housing is a fundamental human need and just another example of how this country is failing.

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

45 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Working in an emergency team, we are currently seeing lots more people with housing issues that previously we wouldn’t have seen. 
 

Historically we would pretty much solely deal with women (we do cover men also if needed) fleeing domestic violence… people who were vulnerable with a crisis … people/families who were victims of natural disaster etc. 

 

We would usually house people who are classed as an “priority need” out of hours until the daytime housing team can give them a proper full assessment. 
 

Unfortunately we are seeing an increase in cases like this highlighted by the BBC:  

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-63694797

 

It’s interesting that the woman’s view is that she is going to end up homeless… entirely through no fault of her own. 
 

Bristol rents / house prices have gone up significantly … as they have in lots of other areas. 
 

A nurse with her likely level of experience should be on around £33k + OOH enhancements on top … plus whatever her husband earns. 
 

I just wondered what the wider view is? 
 

Is it entirely her own fault? 
 

Is it not her fault in anyway? 
 

Should she have not had 4 kids by choice? 
 

Should she have to face reality and move somewhere where housing is more affordable? Not everyone gets to live in a major city. 
 

I imagine with 4 kids to feed, house, cloth and entertain they do spend all of their monthly income … but then is that their own fault for having 4 kids when they weren’t even home owners? 
 

Seems a tough position … in the past we wouldn’t see so much of an issue … I know plenty of people similar to her … they’d moan about not getting on the property ladder but would at least be able to afford the rent somewhere. 

Hello, they have not mentioned the husband's salary ?

[Lloyd90]

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, they have not mentioned the husband's salary ?

Yes, I noticed that. 
 

What difference does it make? 
 

If he makes £20,000 a year, is it their fault or not for having 4 kids whilst renting? 
 

Or if he earns £50,000? Or £80,000? 

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

selling council house all those years back to the tenants was always going to be a bad long term decision especially as the money was not used to build replacements. Councils considered it a win, win situation brought in some needed cash and no longer responsible for maintaining the property and the private sector would fill the cap, which now costs us all in billions every year in housing benefit.

Private sector is always about profit, not about ensuring a long term home for a person or family.  Affordable housing is a fundamental human need and just another example of how this country is failing.

 

Hello, you can only blame Thatcher, 🤔

[old'un]

just looked at the rent for some semis in the Bristol area and as you say the rents are high, £1.5k-£2k per month will get you a 3 bed semi, do we know what rent the couple were paying?

At the end of the day I guess you have to live where you can afford, that's why so many people commute into London, high rents and high property prices.

Does it say what age the kids are?

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Yes, I noticed that. 
 

What difference does it make? 
 

If he makes £20,000 a year, is it their fault or not for having 4 kids whilst renting? 
 

Or if he earns £50,000? Or £80,000? 

Hello, I agree Lloyd , if your in a situation where money's tight at the start of family life then many I knew who like me only had 1 or 2 children and struggled with a mortgage and money was always tight, but that was the middle 1970s and it is a whole new ball game in 2022

[JohnfromUK]

There are a whole load of reasons for this sort of situation, but as so often - there are two sides to everything.

House price (purchase) is predominantly set by supply and demand - and demand has in recent years been high, whilst supply has been less, driving up prices.

Rental price is driven more (in my opinion) by landlords wanting/needing to make 'a return'.  When a person (or persons) need accommodation, but can't afford to buy it, the landlord/tennant arrangement can provide a solution.

The landlord has capital - and can use this to buy a property which the landlord prepares for rental and puts on the market.  But there are lots of ways the landlord could have used that capital - buy shares, buy land, buy a bigger property for him/her self .......... the rental of housing needs to provide a return that competes with these other opportunities.  So if the landlord invests in a property, he needs to see a return (maybe 5%, 10% or whatever he sees as attractive) to commit that money, and also an 'exit route' so that when he needs the capital back (maybe to invest in his business, buy a property for his children, or support care in old age - whatever) he can reasonably expect to get his money back.

In the past, it has been an attractive use of capital.  But as so often - it was abused by a few (again on both sides) who 'spoiled' the system:

• for landlords, - unsafe properties, bully tactics, poor maintenance etc.
• for tenants, - wrecked properties, not paying bills etc.

Legislation has tightened up to prevent abuse with statutory checks and certification, and is I believe due to tighten still further on eviction rules where the landlord wishes to vacate the property, for example to sell it.  In addition, the interest rates have been rising which affects landlords as well as owner occupiers, and so many landlords see the market as higher cost and higher risk - some will increase rents - but this is also regulated in many circumstances.

I know a few landlords who have decided to 'pull out' when possible and choose to put their capital elsewhere.  That in itself can add to the shortage of property.

When I let a property (some years ago now) it made a reasonable return most years - less some years when repairs hit - but a bad experience with a tenant who went bankrupt, coupled with increasing rules and regulations to follow persuaded me to give up being a landlord.  Not regretted that in my case.

Edited November 23, 2022 by JohnfromUK

[nobbyathome]

4 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, you can only blame Thatcher, 🤔

i do not agree with that statement 

thatcher  helped thousands of ordinary people like me to encourage us to get on the property ladder (and i didnt buy a council house i was renting a **** bedsit) the blame lies with the councils if they would have spent the money they got for all the housing they sold into building more homes there would not be the problem we have now 

my daughter still lives with us as she can not afford rent in our area and on a normal persons salary she can not afford to buy either  and there is no way she can even get on the council list as it doesnt really exist anymore

[Lloyd90]

1 minute ago, old'un said:

just looked at the rent for some semis in the Bristol area and as you say the rents are high, £1.5k-£2k per month will get you a 3 bed semi, do we know what rent the couple were paying?

At the end of the day I guess you have to live where you can afford, that's why so many people commute into London, high rents and high property prices.

Does it say what age the kids are?

When we rented (in Bristol) before buying, we were paying £900 for a “3 bed semi” … although it was 2 small bedrooms and 1 tiny box that just about fit a desk.

 

Rents have gone up significantly over the last 4 years … however the demand is still there.
 

Properties listed for rent are usually taken within 2-3 days, often taken without viewings.  

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I agree Lloyd , if your in a situation where money's tight at the start of family life then many I knew who like me only had 1 or 2 children and struggled with a mortgage and money was always tight, but that was the middle 1970s and it is a whole new ball game in 2022

You’re right mate … I just had a look and it says more people (couples) now have a baby in rented accommodation, than they do in owned properties. 
 

My partner and I have intentionally taken precaution to have a home and we even got married before we plan to start a family. 
 

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 minutes ago, nobbyathome said:

i do not agree with that statement 

thatcher  helped thousands of ordinary people like me to encourage us to get on the property ladder (and i didnt buy a council house i was renting a **** bedsit) the blame lies with the councils if they would have spent the money they got for all the housing they sold into building more homes there would not be the problem we have now 

my daughter still lives with us as she can not afford rent in our area and on a normal persons salary she can not afford to buy either  and there is no way she can even get on the council list as it doesnt really exist anymore

Hello, it started with thatcher but I agree council were suppose to l believe use the money from selling 1000s of properties around the UK to build more houses but was any built 🤔

[old'un]

perhaps they started a family when they could manage on their incomes but the cost of living over the last couple of years as pushed them to their income limit and they can no longer afford to live in that area.

Lets face it, no one saw this mess coming.

[Lloyd90]

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

perhaps they started a family when they could manage on their incomes but the cost of living over the last couple of years as pushed them to their income limit and they can no longer afford to live in that area.

Lets face it, no one saw this mess coming.

I have no doubt that is the case. 
 

In the last 4 years rents alone as noted above have increased around £600 a month… £7,200 a year out of your take home pay. 
 

The question though … is it not their fault in anyway? 
 

Or was it poor planning / poor personal responsibility to have a large family, whilst in rented accommodation, living in a major U.K. city (where living is obviously more expensive). 
 

Just a topic of conversation  

[rbrowning2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001fp6f/panorama-cost-of-living-cant-afford-my-home

 

 

[old'un]

9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I have no doubt that is the case. 
 

In the last 4 years rents alone as noted above have increased around £600 a month… £7,200 a year out of your take home pay. 
 

The question though … is it not their fault in anyway? 
 

Or was it poor planning / poor personal responsibility to have a large family, whilst in rented accommodation, living in a major U.K. city (where living is obviously more expensive). 
 

Just a topic of conversation  

irresponsible in the sense that there already to many people on the planet, yes, irresponsible for having 4 kids and not knowing the mess that was waiting round the corner, no.

Just a topic of conversation

[discobob]

I do worry for my kids who are 19 and 17 - what will happen for them. You will own nothing is coming down the line - it has been for years really

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

I do worry for my kids who are 19 and 17 - what will happen for them. You will own nothing is coming down the line - it has been for years really

Hello, I'm sure nearly every  parent feels the same way Bob even  my own although a lot older, when we have this type of discussion I always look at how the next generation will cope in life,

[oowee]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

I do worry for my kids who are 19 and 17 - what will happen for them. You will own nothing is coming down the line - it has been for years really

It's not a right to own your own home. In many countries rental is the norm. The issue is one of affordability and availability either to own, rent or have provision for. The Govt. any govt could solve the problem but we as house owners don't want them to. 

[discobob]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's not a right to own your own home.

I didn't say about buying - it is looking terrible even in the rental sector Grant....

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, discobob said:

I didn't say about buying - it is looking terrible even in the rental sector Grant....

👍 Own or buy supply is the issue and we as home owners don't want to solve it because we are nimbys and we want to protect our housing values. 

[henry d]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

In many countries rental is the norm.

It's becoming the norm here bit by bit. 

Several of our younger friends are renting and not even thinking about buying. They pay more but offset it as they don't have to maintain it. 

In the OP I think that the salient point is around not being able to afford now. They could afford before but I am sure that if pressed you will find that it is rising costs, static wages and possibly other things that are forcing them now to focus (panic) on their situation.