Newbie to this Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 So nothing at all to do with the type of action of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: So nothing at all to do with the type of action of the gun. Don’t understand the question/statement? What’s got nothing to do with the type of action? I’m sure they’d of struggled to load 3 into an O/U or SxS, but as has already been explained it’s the user not the gun that’s the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TK421 said: Don’t understand the question/statement? What’s got nothing to do with the type of action? I’m sure they’d of struggled to load 3 into an O/U or SxS, but as has already been explained it’s the user not the gun that’s the problem? The title of the thread suggest it's the action of the gun at fault, which it clearly wasn't. It's very misleading. You can quite easily load 3 in a semi-auto or a 3 shot break barrel. You could quite easily load 2 in a o/u or SxS and only fire 1 and still have a loaded gun waving about. Edited January 5, 2023 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: The title of the thread suggest it's the action of the gun at fault, which it clearly wasn't. It's very misleading. You can quite easily load 3 in a semi-auto or a 3 shot break barrel. Ok I’ll run with this, “pump action at a clay ground” How is the title very misleading? In what way does it suggest the action of the gun is at fault? Please explain? Edited January 5, 2023 by TK421 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 20 minutes ago, TK421 said: Ok I’ll run with this, “pump action at a clay ground” How is the title very misleading? In what way does it suggest the action of the gun is at fault? Please explain? Why mention the action, why not "Idiot at a clay ground", or "Idiot loading 3 at a clay ground where it is against the rules" You mentioning the action, to me suggests that you somehow think the action is the problem. By the sound of it, this person would have been equally as dangerous with any shotgun. I just see this as blaming the action as well as the person, when the action of the shotgun is irrelevant, this person was the problem. That's just my take on this. If that's not the case, then as I said, it is very misleading, to me anyway or is that not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Why mention the action, why not "Idiot at a clay ground", or "Idiot loading 3 at a clay ground where it is against the rules" You mentioning the action, to me suggests that you somehow think the action is the problem. By the sound of it, this person would have been equally as dangerous with any shotgun. I just see this as blaming the action as well as the person, when the action of the shotgun is irrelevant, this person was the problem. That's just my take on this. If that's not the case, then as I said, it is very misleading, to me anyway or is that not allowed. Ok let’s try that again as you’ve still not answered the question, staying on point as we seem to be drifting from your early post, the title “pump action at a clay ground” How is the title very misleading? In what way does it suggest the action of the gun is at fault? Again Please explain this as I’m struggling to understand how you think this is misleading as it’s simply states 1, there’s a thing (a pump action) at 2, a place (a clay ground), which isn’t unusual. I’m not sure what else that’s suggesting or how this is ‘very’ misleading other than the fact there was a pump action at a clay ground? 🤔 Again, please explain this as I’m lost on this one… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, TK421 said: Ok let’s try that again as you’ve still not answered the question, staying on point as we seem to be drifting from your early post, the title “pump action at a clay ground” How is the title very misleading? In what way does it suggest the action of the gun is at fault? Again Please explain this as I’m struggling to understand how you think this is misleading as it’s simply states 1, there’s a thing (a pump action) at 2, a place (a clay ground), which isn’t unusual. I’m not sure what else that’s suggesting or how this is ‘very’ misleading other than the fact there was a pump action at a clay ground? 🤔 Again, please explain this as I’m lost on this one… In my opinion it's misleading, it seems that you are blaming the action, in some sort of 'snobbery', else why mention the action. I'll say this again, "To me the title of the thread is misleading", especially you are saying that the person, not the 'pump action' was responsible for the bad behaviour, and you having to wait (your turn) to shoot the stand, even though to me the tilte suggests the action was a problem. You saying you don’t understand, is not going to change that to me, I see NO point in mentioning the type of action, unless you see it as the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Newbie to this said: In my opinion it's misleading, it seems that you are blaming the action, in some sort of 'snobbery', else why mention the action. I'll say this again, "To me the title of the thread is misleading", especially you are saying that the person, not the 'pump action' was responsible for the bad behaviour, and you having to wait (your turn) to shoot the stand, even though to me the tilte suggests the action was a problem. You saying you don’t understand, is not going to change that to me, I see NO point in mentioning the type of action, unless you see it as the problem. Ah, so you formed an opinion on the entire thread based on the title alone? So you never read the first post and then formed an opinion? The truth is the title makes no claims to anything other than ‘pump action at a clay ground’ simple as that. In theory my thread could of been about my first time out with my brilliant ‘pump action at a clay ground’, or would you still of formed the same opinion on the title alone and waded in with the title is very misleading? of course not, you read the title then interpreted it in whatever way you wanted ONCE you read my first post. Not the other way round as you suggest. the title is only misleading to you because of the way you misinterpret what’s being said in the thread AFTER you’ve read the title. As you mentioned this is your OPINION, of which I have no desire to change or correct. That fact that you and others for some reason seem to be jumping to the defence of pump action shotguns, for fk knows why as I genuinely have no issue with them, shoot whatever the f k you want, instead of the fact it was the **** head behind the gun that was the issue makes me think some are posting for the sake of posting as you’ve clearly missed the point. Then typically as we see time and time again, the narrative is then pulled into whatever direction to make another point about pump actions having a place at clay grounds, which was never in question by me at any point. I can only surmise from the response that this thread has gotten that pumps and potentially pump owners get a lot of flack in the community? I’m only guessing as I genuinely have no fkn idea anymore. I also have no preconceptions about anyone that shoots one or anything else for that matter, in fact, for the record I think they’re quite cool and would love to have a go of one at some point, although if they attract this much BS I may pass until I’m next in the states. why mentioned the action? The guy was shooting a pump action why wouldn’t that be mentioned? maybe the title should of been left blank so as not to confuse or mislead people f f s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 24 minutes ago, TK421 said: Ah, so you formed an opinion on the entire thread based on the title alone? So you never read the first post and then formed an opinion? The truth is the title makes no claims to anything other than ‘pump action at a clay ground’ simple as that. In theory my thread could of been about my first time out with my brilliant ‘pump action at a clay ground’, or would you still of formed the same opinion on the title alone and waded in with the title is very misleading? of course not, you read the title then interpreted it in whatever way you wanted ONCE you read my first post. Not the other way round as you suggest. the title is only misleading to you because of the way you misinterpret what’s being said in the thread AFTER you’ve read the title. As you mentioned this is your OPINION, of which I have no desire to change or correct. That fact that you and others for some reason seem to be jumping to the defence of pump action shotguns, for fk knows why as I genuinely have no issue with them, shoot whatever the f k you want, instead of the fact it was the **** head behind the gun that was the issue makes me think some are posting for the sake of posting as you’ve clearly missed the point. Then typically as we see time and time again, the narrative is then pulled into whatever direction to make another point about pump actions having a place at clay grounds, which was never in question by me at any point. I can only surmise from the response that this thread has gotten that pumps and potentially pump owners get a lot of flack in the community? I’m only guessing as I genuinely have no fkn idea anymore. I also have no preconceptions about anyone that shoots one or anything else for that matter, in fact, for the record I think they’re quite cool and would love to have a go of one at some point, although if they attract this much BS I may pass until I’m next in the states. why mentioned the action? The guy was shooting a pump action why wouldn’t that be mentioned? maybe the title should of been left blank so as not to confuse or mislead people f f s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downforce Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 On 02/01/2023 at 11:12, London Best said: I have never fired a pump action shotgun. Come to think of it, I have never seen anyone using one either. But I have heard it said that, in the hands of a shooter who is well used to a pump, they are faster to cycle than a semi auto and less prone to jams. Any thoughts on this from someone who can really use one? When I shot at Holland & Holland one of the instructors hadn't recently or maybe ever used a pump, once he got his hands on my Benelli he was made up and told us how rare it is to see one and how much he'd enjoyed shooting clays with a pump, even having access to a selection of handmade desirable multiK guns - that said theres always going to people that dont like the look of a pump and assume anyone thats got one just stepped out from robbing a bank - thats a bit prejudicial / discriminaory in itself but I tend to not let it bother me. Firstly I wouldnt put myself out there as someone that can really use one implying a very high level of skill having been shooting at Bisley with some of the GB team they really can do pumps as practically fast as a semi-auto, I dont have the time and ammunition stockpiles to practice to that level - they did say thats possible BUT until maybe 5 years ago I only owned O/Us and a semi-auto but having bought a couple of pump-actions 12G and 410 and using them at clay grounds and a bit of practical I would say from my experiences; 1) Someone that goes to a clay ground to shoot semi/pump should always explicitly ask and check the rules - some grounds do say 2 only some dont and some (weirdly IMO) do allow 3 in pumps but only 2 in semis !!! I personally think this stems from not many people using pumps at clay grounds - and I'll come to that in a minute. Nevertheless as a visitor to a ground I bet 90% of us dont sit and read all the rules at every ground we visit, particularly if we're being guided or going with someone local to that ground. 2) As others have mentioned any firearm should be demonstrated as safe when not in use with a obvious flag or the gun being broken I have added an orange 6" "SAFE" tape to the plastic flag for visibility. Anyone should call them out for not demonstrating a safe firearm. 3) Obviously pump/semis are used for real pigeons and other game so why not at clay grounds. 4) Anyone that gets a new gun might have to learn how to use it so depending on the situation getting upset because someone is faffing around and being slow with a new gun could be somewhat like blowing your horn at a learner driver on a roundabout - its probably not going to help, just wait or move on, unless... 5) Never assume other people are inherently safe competent shooters and if I thought they were acting dangerously I would politely ask if they were okay, but if the ground doesnt have rules/signs to say only 2 shots which the shooter should check then dont rely on etiquette to expect people to only shoot 2 shots (outside competitions), its not the 1960s anymore and people dont quite follow etiquette like they used to. Anyway at least donte get upset about it. Sign of the times. If shooting in a competition the rules should make the task the same difficulty but the organisers may decide to allow 3 shots with a pump because they think its harder, who knows? Now to try and answer LB: Shooting a pump effectively against two birds is IMO much harder than a O/U SxS or SemiAuto because the action of racking the slide inherently interrupts your aim more than all of the above its more a question of being able to rack the slide quickly and keep the aim unlike the others which you just keep in the aim and pull the trigger again. I woud say once you get proficient with a pump and hit most birds its more enjoyable than other guns. I would also suggest shooting pump well could help improve other shotguns - maybe. Being safe with any firearm has to take priority over everything BUT taking two difficult birds with a pump action is immensely satisfying, much more so than with an O/U SxS or Auto. Taking two birds with a 410 pump is seriously hard. I would just suggest if you havent tried shooting clays with a pump, give it a go before knocking it, dont forget to work the slide each time as others pointed out its just getting used to it, but stick to the rules, take a big orange flag and stay safe. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downforce Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) On 30/12/2022 at 14:04, TK421 said: It seamed to jam up frequently Forgot to say pumps can be reaaly good with different length shells and can jam with others, my mossberg 410 will not feed magnums even though its meant to but will happily cycle standard cartridges but the Benelli 12G will happily cycle anything 2"-3 1/2" Edited January 5, 2023 by Downforce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 When TK421 started the thread, I suspect he didn't appreciate that he would be taken to task about the thread heading. Anyone viewing the thread and reading the first post would know why he started it. After umpteen posts, I also suspect he wished he had phrased it differently, although I see nothing wrong with it. Had I owned the clay ground concerned, I would have been passing a few names and car registrations to the local FEO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, Gordon R said: When TK421 started the thread, I suspect he didn't appreciate that he would be taken to task about the thread heading. Anyone viewing the thread and reading the first post would know why he started it. After umpteen posts, I also suspect he wished he had phrased it differently, although I see nothing wrong with it. Had I owned the clay ground concerned, I would have been passing a few names and car registrations to the local FEO. @Gordon R you’re not wrong mate, kinda wishing I could delete the whole thing to be fair 😂 unfortunately there’s no way to amend the thread title either. But I feel some are just being a little pedantic, they get the gist of what I was saying and my concerns, it was nothing personal against pumps, but was twisted up to make it sound that way. Even after multiple corrections after the fact, the message never got through. Hence me asking for admins/mods to close the thread. Very sad that things go this way as @Scully said we’re all on the same side, not that I took anything personally, it certainly didn’t feel like it when reading and replying to posts in this thread. I genuinely thought most would see the safety issues and concerns with with this squad and connect with the issue. I’m also very naive to any of the snobbery or politics surrounding pumps and semis (if there is any) I’m guilty of walking into that if it is indeed a thing. I treat everyone with the same amount of respect and they treat me regardless of class, social status or gun they shoot. I love and love for my shooting and for the most part have respect for the people that not only enjoy it but work in the industry also, I would like to hope everyone else in this sport does also. There’s enough inbound BS surrounding this sport that is far more threatening to the longevity of this marvellous sport other than picking apart someone’s thread and playing on the semantics of how things are written and/or misunderstanding it’s intent purposefully or otherwise. It was never my intention to offend, isolate, single out anyone or anything in my comments, nevertheless it would appear that this has happened. you simply can’t please all the people all of the time, I get that. regarding the ground owner, details where taken. not all had licenses which comes as no surprise and they were not regulars either. It was also noted they were shooting game loads over 28g, this was only realised after they left the ground, which is an instant banning anyway. peace and love guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, TK421 said: regarding the ground owner, details where taken. not all had licenses which comes as no surprise and they were not regulars either. It was also noted they were shooting game loads over 28g, this was only realised after they left the ground, which is an instant banning anyway. peace and love guys sorry if i contributed to the derailing, it just struck a nerve as i have had several people stick their noses in over the years. One recently walked up to me to demand i not load 3 and was unhappy when i showed i wasnt... ( i load 2 into the magazine and then pump to chamber the 1st round just before i shoot). I have *never* had any interactions like this with my O/U or SxS. My point is that you will get a certain kind of person taking an interest in you at clay ground no matter how you shoot *if* you shoot a pump. As for the people you mentioned in the 1st post. Hopefully i will never bump into them as they sound like people who shouldn't have access to a catapult let alone a shotgun. Whatever the ground has rules, you follow them.. or find somewhere else. have fun shooting ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, quentyn said: sorry if i contributed to the derailing, it just struck a nerve as i have had several people stick their noses in over the years. One recently walked up to me to demand i not load 3 and was unhappy when i showed i wasnt... ( i load 2 into the magazine and then pump to chamber the 1st round just before i shoot). I have *never* had any interactions like this with my O/U or SxS. My point is that you will get a certain kind of person taking an interest in you at clay ground no matter how you shoot *if* you shoot a pump. As for the people you mentioned in the 1st post. Hopefully i will never bump into them as they sound like people who shouldn't have access to a catapult let alone a shotgun. Whatever the ground has rules, you follow them.. or find somewhere else. have fun shooting ! All fair comments and now I’m beginning to understand a little More about the frustrations of owning a pump and the negative attention it attracts at clay grounds. (I wasn’t ‘that’ guy at the clay ground by the way) I can now see how some would feel snobbish behaviour surrounds pump ownership etc.. Thanks for that. But we must be able differentiate between what others do and what you do yourself, I wasn’t pointing the finger at anyone on the forum (unless it was someone on here?) I was asking the community their opinion on this as I genuinely haven’t got a clue about the workings, etiquette etc.. for the record I love all things mechanical and come from an engineering background. The comment you’ve provided above has answered more questions for me about this, and enlightened me to the other side of the coin if that makes sense. All of which I’m very thankful for. regardless of their, the guys in the squad were grade A **** heads, of which we all don’t want at any ground, hope we can all at least agree on that😉 Edited January 5, 2023 by TK421 Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, TK421 said: the guys in the squad were grade A **** heads, of which we all don’t want at any ground, hope we can all at last agree on that😉 we absolutely can and i offer a pic of my pump at a clay ground as consolation ( and its an awesome pump) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK421 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 20 minutes ago, quentyn said: we absolutely can and i offer a pic of my pump at a clay ground as consolation ( and its an awesome pump) That’s a beaut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 TK421 I can change the title if you wish. What would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 On 05/01/2023 at 19:39, shaun4860 said: TK421 I can change the title if you wish. What would you suggest? ‘The Thread I wish I had never started’ 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 The pump in the photo is a cracker. What make is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: The pump in the photo is a cracker. What make is it? its a mossberg 590 in Marinecote with Magpul bits. I was super lucky to get a heat shield in marinecote to match its my favourite ( especially if its raining) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 So is that a 2 +1 or does it hold more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 On 08/01/2023 at 19:23, TIGHTCHOKE said: So is that a 2 +1 or does it hold more? This one is permanently to 2+1 but by default I think they are 5+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowdy Posted April 3, 2023 Report Share Posted April 3, 2023 On 05/01/2023 at 18:22, quentyn said: we absolutely can and i offer a pic of my pump at a clay ground as consolation ( and its an awesome pump) I often take my 5 shot auto to shoot clays . If you have 10 birds on one stand you only have to reload once 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 3, 2023 Report Share Posted April 3, 2023 That would get you thrown off almost any clay shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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