Recall

[yates]

My lab is now 11 months old and has just started to ignore being recalled when other dogs are around. He was progressing well and would always return, however he now runs to any dog he sees. Now when we are training when its just me and him, I call him to me but he looks in all directions to see if anyone is around before deciding if he will come to me. What is the best solution to correct this behaviour?

Edited January 5, 2023 by yates

[ditchman]

when you feed him ....use the recall whistle ,,make him sit ..then wave him in...   EVERYTIME........and when he comes to you praise him...

[Dave at kelton]

I would have him on a paracord longline and when he ignored me give him a tweak back. Loads of fuss when he gets back and if it turns him on a treat. It is just a phase they all go through. You just have to work through it.

[Grandalf]

5 hours ago, ditchman said:

when you feed him ....use the recall whistle ,,make him sit ..then wave him in...   EVERYTIME........and when he comes to you praise him...

This.

[old'un]

Chocolate buttons for dogs, far more rewarding than other dogs.

[yates]

Thank you for your replies. Food bribery it will be. Thankfully he has a very soft temprement and only wants to play with other dogs but it is not a positive experience for other dog owners or myself. I have been recommended an electrical collar but this is not an option I really want to consider 

[Rob85]

13 hours ago, yates said:

Thank you for your replies. Food bribery it will be. Thankfully he has a very soft temprement and only wants to play with other dogs but it is not a positive experience for other dog owners or myself. I have been recommended an electrical collar but this is not an option I really want to consider 

The electric collar really is a nuclear last resort option. If your training area is secure you could try calling him and start to run away from him, it will confuse the hell out of him and hopefully have him chasing after you, loads of fuss when he gets to you. I'm not a fan of food bribery as it can cause dogs to spit out retrieves in anticipation of the treats.

[Dave at kelton]

16 hours ago, yates said:

Thank you for your replies. Food bribery it will be. Thankfully he has a very soft temprement and only wants to play with other dogs but it is not a positive experience for other dog owners or myself. I have been recommended an electrical collar but this is not an option I really want to consider 

Don’t go down the e collar route. As mentioned this is the nuclear option and not for this problem. Worth reading Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson. It is game changing and I follow it from early puppyhood. Using treats I have them in the palm of my hand and put it down for the dog to puts its nose in. Helps delivery too but essentially all my dogs when they see that palm down come straight to it. Once the problem is solved you can knock off the treats but worth using one now and then just to keep reinforcing the behaviour.

Good luck!

[old'un]

Using treats is a tried and tested means of getting certain dogs past a sticky stage in their training, its not something you give as a matter of course during training, its a means to an end in one area of training.

First it seems the dog is now seeing things more interesting than you (other dogs) we need to make what you have on offer far more rewarding than what's around him, we need his attention.

Chocolate buttons, take the dog to an area with no distractions, sit the dog and give him ONE button, now rub a chocolate button in the palm of your hand, we are working with scent to start with, whilst walking on the lead call your dogs name, as soon as you do put your hand to his nose, he knows that scent now from the ONE he had at the start, walk a bit more and do the same thing but only do this twice, walk on and this time call his name and give him a button, walk on and repeat the scent only and then a chocolate button, the alternate scent and chocolate button is to keep the dog anticipating, once the dog starts to shoot his head around on the call of his name, stop and do the same again latter in the day or the next, we are trying to condition the dogs response using a treat, once you have reached the point where the dog is responding well to the name call stop using the scent and start to reduce the number of times you give a treat.

Once you are happy move to an area with a little more distraction and try the same method, like I said we are trying to condition the dogs response so he does it without realising.

I will add that you have probably bought on the non response by giving a command you were unable to drive it home, we have all been there.

just seen your post Dave, sorry to have almost repeated what you have said.

Edited January 6, 2023 by old'un

[12gauge82]

On 05/01/2023 at 10:23, yates said:

My lab is now 11 months old and has just started to ignore being recalled when other dogs are around. He was progressing well and would always return, however he now runs to any dog he sees. Now when we are training when its just me and him, I call him to me but he looks in all directions to see if anyone is around before deciding if he will come to me. What is the best solution to correct this behaviour?

I always build an "emergency recall" into my dog training, using a word I only use for that recall. You need to give the dog an insentive to come back, so you need to tailor the reward to your own personal dog using whatever drives him, whether that's a favourite toy or a favourite treat, ideally you'd use (for instance) a favourite toy only for recal work and build his drive up for wanting it by only giving it for an immediate recall and not allowing them to have it at any other time.

Build it up in stages, initially recalling in a sterile environment where your sure the dog will return, then building it up adding in further distances and distractions including other dogs. Whilst proofing the command don't push the training too fast and ideally don't use the recall if you believe the dog will ignore it, don't forget to train progressively with both bigger distances between you and the dog and shorter distances between the dog and distractions before finally both and don't forget you need to be more exciting and fun for your dog to return to than what the dog was distracted by.

You will eventually have a dog that will recall on a swivel at virtually any distance or distraction provided the dog has enough toy or food drive (which most working dogs will have). 

[yates]

Thank you for all your replies.  All more than helpful but will be put into practice, no electronic collars will be used. 

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, yates said:

Thank you for all your replies.  All more than helpful but will be put into practice, no electronic collars will be used. 

Glad to hear it, please keep us posted on progress. 

Glad you won't be using a shock collar and thought I'd add that although I'm not against a shock collar if only used for very specific issues as a very last resort, they are illegal in Wales, in the rest of the country, my view is they should only be used by professional trainers, I have seen the results of improper use and causing worse issues than the problem they were trying to solve, which Ironically would have been very easy to fix without one. 

[cash1]

It might be too late for this method it works so well with pups even Fell Terriers and hunt Beagles.

Take your dog or pup out for a walk in a safe area with a little cover and when the gets ahead of you hide. When he realises you've gone and you can tell he's concerned recall him. To keep him on his toes when he's not looking just turn round and walk off in the opposite direction. 

[ditchman]

3 hours ago, cash1 said:

It might be too late for this method it works so well with pups even Fell Terriers and hunt Beagles.

Take your dog or pup out for a walk in a safe area with a little cover and when the gets ahead of you hide. When he realises you've gone and you can tell he's concerned recall him. To keep him on his toes when he's not looking just turn round and walk off in the opposite direction. 

this also works well with a dog that drops a bird too early....

[yates]

Hi. Yes being trying this with mixed results. Better results in returning when there are no distractions, he returns but checks to make sure he can't see anything both in front and behind before deciding to get his treat. He legged it and ran a significant distance yesterday when he saw another dog. Totally ignored me. Still early days. As this is fairly new trait, he used to return, I wonder if it a hormonal thing as he is nearing his first year

Edited January 10, 2023 by yates

[holloway]

4 hours ago, yates said:

Hi. Yes being trying this with mixed results. Better results in returning when there are no distractions, he returns but checks to make sure he can't see anything both in front and behind before deciding to get his treat. He legged it and ran a significant distance yesterday when he saw another dog. Totally ignored me. Still early days. As this is fairly new trait, he used to return, I wonder if it a hormonal thing as he is nearing his first year

I think this has been mentioned before in this post Pippa Mattinsons book total recall is Tailor  made for you and your dog ,you will have good reliable recall if you read it and follow her directions.

[Dave at kelton]

4 hours ago, holloway said:

I think this has been mentioned before in this post Pippa Mattinsons book total recall is Tailor  made for you and your dog ,you will have good reliable recall if you read it and follow her directions.

+1

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, yates said:

Hi. Yes being trying this with mixed results. Better results in returning when there are no distractions, he returns but checks to make sure he can't see anything both in front and behind before deciding to get his treat. He legged it and ran a significant distance yesterday when he saw another dog. Totally ignored me. Still early days. As this is fairly new trait, he used to return, I wonder if it a hormonal thing as he is nearing his first year

That says to me he's used to you calling him when he's in the middle of chasing something more interesting or simply deciding hes not coming back and ignoring your recall. 

Take it all the way back to basics and build the recall up in a sterile area like I posted above and if he's got ball drive keep it for recall work and only play with it with him when he makes an immediate recall. Before long you should have a dog that turns on a button 👍

[bigroomboy]

All the above is great advice. I would add at this stage that you may need to interrupt this behaviour that's formed, to make it clear he isn't allowed to do it. In extremis you can use an e collar but a simpler way is have him on a long line when this may happen. When you recall if he doesn't immediately turn to you, give him little but sharp check on the long line. A snap not a tug. You are not trying to pull him back to you. Think of it as a physical Agh Agh at range. That should get his attention and he should look at you. Repeat the recall command and make it clear you expect it to be obeyed. when he starts to come immediately change to a rewarding tone and lots of praise when he gets to you.

Long lines can be a pain to practice clear of somewhere it will tangle and I would recommend biothane lines. Also you may want to orchestrate this scenario with a friend. The last thing you want is the other dog bolting over to your dog in the middle of this. Remember set you and your dog up to succeed not fail.

[old'un]

On 10/01/2023 at 10:31, yates said:

Hi. Yes being trying this with mixed results. Better results in returning when there are no distractions, he returns but checks to make sure he can't see anything both in front and behind before deciding to get his treat. He legged it and ran a significant distance yesterday when he saw another dog. Totally ignored me. Still early days. As this is fairly new trait, he used to return, I wonder if it a hormonal thing as he is nearing his first year

You have been given some good advice on this forum which you said you would put into practice, yet not a week as gone by and you have put your dog in the same situation and he has disobeyed you.

May I suggest you take a few steps back and get the dog well grounded in the stop/recall command before the fault becomes a bigger problem like chasing game/livestock.

Don't take the dog anywhere near possible distractions.

Make sure you do not put yourself or the dog in a position where you are unable to drive the command home, put him on a long line if need.

 

[yates]

On 11/01/2023 at 07:56, bigroomboy said:

All the above is great advice. I would add at this stage that you may need to interrupt this behaviour that's formed, to make it clear he isn't allowed to do it. In extremis you can use an e collar but a simpler way is have him on a long line when this may happen. When you recall if he doesn't immediately turn to you, give him little but sharp check on the long line. A snap not a tug. You are not trying to pull him back to you. Think of it as a physical Agh Agh at range. That should get his attention and he should look at you. Repeat the recall command and make it clear you expect it to be obeyed. when he starts to come immediately change to a rewarding tone and lots of praise when he gets to you.

Long lines can be a pain to practice clear of somewhere it will tangle and I would recommend biothane lines. Also you may want to orchestrate this scenario with a friend. The last thing you want is the other dog bolting over to your dog in the middle of this. Remember set you and your dog up to succeed not fail.

Hi. Trying this and have now commenced with trainer and group classes. 

20 hours ago, old'un said:

You have been given some good advice on this forum which you said you would put into practice, yet not a week as gone by and you have put your dog in the same situation and he has disobeyed you.

May I suggest you take a few steps back and get the dog well grounded in the stop/recall command before the fault becomes a bigger problem like chasing game/livestock.

Don't take the dog anywhere near possible distractions.

Make sure you do not put yourself or the dog in a position where you are unable to drive the command home, put him on a long line if need.

 

Rather harsh comment. As a lot of the good advice is being followed.  As quoted above he now has a trainer and is learning in group classes. 

[old'un]

2 hours ago, yates said:

Hi. Trying this and have now commenced with trainer and group classes. 

Rather harsh comment. As a lot of the good advice is being followed.  As quoted above he now has a trainer and is learning in group classes. 

but true

[bigroomboy]

Good work on taking up training and getting on some group classes. I've done a lot of lessons but I'm far from a proper dog trainer yet.

What trainer are you working with / where are you based?

[yates]

13 hours ago, bigroomboy said:

Good work on taking up training and getting on some group classes. I've done a lot of lessons but I'm far from a proper dog trainer yet.

What trainer are you working with / where are you based?

Aimee Slack and a group socialising sessions in Rotherham. Although he lives with two other lab's he had a strong desire to socialise, and is now returning when called, long way to go though 

[12gauge82]

On 13/01/2023 at 08:04, yates said:

Aimee Slack and a group socialising sessions in Rotherham. Although he lives with two other lab's he had a strong desire to socialise, and is now returning when called, long way to go though 

Well done on the progress, all dogs have different training challenges and needs, don't be hard on yourself and remember productive training should be kept fun for both of you.