Conor O'Gorman Posted January 25, 2023 Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 Last night, Tuesday 24 January, in the Scottish Parliament, the Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill was passed by 90 votes to 30. It repeals and replaces the Protection of Wild Mammals Act, which was passed in 2002. In essence, the Bill restricts those “hunting” mammals in Scotland to use no more than two dogs to do so. It establishes a new licensing scheme to allow the use of more than two dogs in certain limited circumstances. This is to provide farmers, gamekeepers and land managers access to appropriate and humane control measures, where necessary. This would include using dogs to flush foxes from woodland or scrub to be shot. BASC opposed the Bill from the outset. We also extensively lobbied MSPs, Government Ministers and Scottish Government officials in order to ensure clarity around unintended consequences for rough shooting. The Environment and Land Reform Minister has said that she “would be content to work with the shooting industry on post-legislative guidance in order to try to manage down the risk of vexatious claims.” BASC has been requested by the Scottish Government to shape guidance on licensing and the Bill’s implications on rough shooting. Click link below for more information and FAQs https://basc.org.uk/what-does-the-hunting-with-dogs-bill-mean-for-shooting/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted January 25, 2023 Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 Without reading the bill i would say it means nothing for shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 25, 2023 Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 23 minutes ago, bluesj said: Without reading the bill i would say it means nothing for shooting. I would think it means that if you’re a party of say, six or seven rough shooters, you can only take two dogs with you lest you flush a fox, rabbit or hare? 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted January 25, 2023 Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 40 minutes ago, Scully said: I would think it means that if you’re a party of say, six or seven rough shooters, you can only take two dogs with you lest you flush a fox, rabbit or hare? 🤷♂️ Again I have not read the bill so could be wrong, but I would think there is something in it about intent so if you go out with six or seven dogs intending to flush birds and by accident flush a fox you won't have committed a crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 11 hours ago, bluesj said: Again I have not read the bill so could be wrong, but I would think there is something in it about intent so if you go out with six or seven dogs intending to flush birds and by accident flush a fox you won't have committed a crime. If you shoot the fox? I’d say you’re probably right, I haven’t read it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 listening to the guys that are moaning you can only use two dogs on rat or mice so there saying beaters are only allowed two dogs in the beating line . But there waiting on one of the big organisations clearing that up . Or first unlucky person getting caught and see what a judge and lawyer says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 As a lurcher man what it really means is BASC have zero interest in us. We not all poaching vandals and like to legally go about a bit of ferreting with our lurcher which we can no longer do in Scotland. We didn't even get a mention or any consideration. I will be cancelling membership tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Bigbob said: listening to the guys that are moaning you can only use two dogs on rat or mice so there saying beaters are only allowed two dogs in the beating line . But there waiting on one of the big organisations clearing that up . Or first unlucky person getting caught and see what a judge and lawyer says Driven bird shooting isn't affected by this, or are you meaning beaters for a rough shoot that includes ground game? 1 hour ago, captainhastings said: As a lurcher man what it really means is BASC have zero interest in us. We not all poaching vandals and like to legally go about a bit of ferreting with our lurcher which we can no longer do in Scotland. We didn't even get a mention or any consideration. I will be cancelling membership tomorrow Not sure I understand. Why do you think you can't go out with your lurcher in Scotland? Do you have more than 2 dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Piebob said: Driven bird shooting isn't affected by this, or are you meaning beaters for a rough shoot that includes ground game? Not sure I understand. Why do you think you can't go out with your lurcher in Scotland? Do you have more than 2 dogs? Its illegal for any dog to kill a mammal in Scotland. I did confirm with Basc Hello Terry, You are not allowed to use Lurchers (or similar) to kill rabbits any longer. You may only use up to 2 dogs to flush rabbits out from cover to then shoot them. Time of day/night doesn’t impact this. I have been travelling down south which is why the response wasn’t immediate. Hope this helps, Country Officer (Scotland) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, captainhastings said: Its illegal for any dog to kill a mammal in Scotland. I did confirm with Basc Hello Terry, You are not allowed to use Lurchers (or similar) to kill rabbits any longer. You may only use up to 2 dogs to flush rabbits out from cover to then shoot them. Time of day/night doesn’t impact this. I have been travelling down south which is why the response wasn’t immediate. Hope this helps, Country Officer (Scotland) Thanks, I get it now. I hadn't paid proper attention to the exact wording but can see now how it's worded around flushing versus killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyshooter Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 A bit off topic but, what it " may " mean is that following the next Scottish Parliament election ( in May 2026 ) more of what we enjoy will be lost, if the SNP / Green are still in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 Just watched field sports britain and the basc guy said even though they didnt want the law its nice they have a workable solution. These people are on a different planet so screw the thousands of legit lurcher men. These people know as much about country sports as I know about building a space station. Its a case of I am all right Jack with my fancy shooting. Sod the guy that wants to nip out with his ferrets and lurcher like his been doing for god knows how long. Just disgraceful. I been ringing all week to cancel my subscription but can never get through. If you want to join or renew yea no problem but lets make if really difficult to leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 I know my view is unpopular with some, speaking generally as there are always exceptions to the majority but this is the result of many of the hunts blatantly flouting the law and continuing to hunt fox with hounds under the guise of drag hunting. Its why I can't support them as they have done nothing to support shooters and brought nothing but heat on to the rest of us and I can see the same happening in England and Wales unless the hunts start acting within the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 58 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I know my view is unpopular with some, speaking generally as there are always exceptions to the majority but this is the result of many of the hunts blatantly flouting the law and continuing to hunt fox with hounds under the guise of drag hunting. Its why I can't support them as they have done nothing to support shooters and brought nothing but heat on to the rest of us and I can see the same happening in England and Wales unless the hunts start acting within the law. I see where you are coming from and the law is the law and if you are a gun owner you have to espeacially follow it too the letter as we should. But hunts are one of us same as lurcher men and shooters and anglers. When hunting act got passed all them years ago the big organizations should have fought tooth and nail to claw it back or even portions of it over the years. In stead all we seem too do is lose lose lose and they seem to regard keeping a few crumbs as win. Just wish they would go on the offensive for a change and take some thing back. This Scotland shambles will come to Wales and England just a case of when. The country has gone so soft its unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 On 26/01/2023 at 20:37, captainhastings said: As a lurcher man what it really means is BASC have zero interest in us. We not all poaching vandals and like to legally go about a bit of ferreting with our lurcher which we can no longer do in Scotland. We didn't even get a mention or any consideration. I will be cancelling membership tomorrow I accept what you say about being legitimate/not poaching vandals. But I fail to understand why you think that an association for shooting and conservation should have any jurisdiction/mandate to look after or represent lurchers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 9 hours ago, captainhastings said: I see where you are coming from and the law is the law and if you are a gun owner you have to espeacially follow it too the letter as we should. But hunts are one of us same as lurcher men and shooters and anglers. When hunting act got passed all them years ago the big organizations should have fought tooth and nail to claw it back or even portions of it over the years. In stead all we seem too do is lose lose lose and they seem to regard keeping a few crumbs as win. Just wish they would go on the offensive for a change and take some thing back. This Scotland shambles will come to Wales and England just a case of when. The country has gone so soft its unbelievable I just feel the hunts have taken a massive **** on shooters by continuing to flout the law after it was passed and it has brought a huge amount of negative heat on the rest of us as Joe public lumps us altogether. It probably doesn't help I and people I know have in the past had issue with some hunt groups damaging property and trespassing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 13 hours ago, London Best said: I accept what you say about being legitimate/not poaching vandals. But I fail to understand why you think that an association for shooting and conservation should have any jurisdiction/mandate to look after or represent lurchers? I all ways thought they were all encompassing maybe not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenshank1 Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) The saddest thing is most folk I know got into shooting only after first rabbiting as kids and knocking about with ferrets , lurchers and terriers. So again like air gun licensing , entry into shooting has been restricted for lots of kids right across Scotland. All the shooting organisations should hang their head in shame over their stance and efforts they put in to fight this . They think everyone starts shooting from a peg on a driven day . Edited February 19, 2023 by greenshank1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 26/01/2023 at 20:37, captainhastings said: As a lurcher man what it really means is BASC have zero interest in us. We not all poaching vandals and like to legally go about a bit of ferreting with our lurcher which we can no longer do in Scotland. We didn't even get a mention or any consideration. I will be cancelling membership tomorrow Come along now Conner.....don't be shy and respond to this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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