Do you trust BASC

[holloway]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

If they were banned we wouldn’t be aware of just how useless BASC’s membership were! 😀

Perhaps there’s your answer as to just how ineffective our organisations are? Any union ( in the literal sense ) is only as effective as its members, after all. 
 

I think banned was not quite the right word ,but I do remember threads being locked as a matter of course ,rightly or wrongly.I think the point to highlight is as you have mentioned apathy from membership ,  probably more of a problem than the organisation if truth be known.

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Lets be clear here , you say non BASC members ? To a man , they are all EX BASC members, and they are EX for a reason.

You can choose to live in an echo chamber where BASC never gets anything wrong , and valiantly fights for shooting 24/7/365, or you can take them to account, question their motives when they do something wrong , and praise them when theyre right.
The lead ban proposals are a very serious issue for UK firearms users, and I dont believe BASC are taking it as seriously as they should. The reasons for this are probably because the type of shooting BASC favours ,CAN survive a lead ban.
The rest of us can be thrown under the bus.

If you dont believe we have the right to question BASC , then you dont believe we have the right to question anybody or anything.

Ok

[BlaserF3]

Many years ago I was actually a member of BASC, 1984.

If my memory is correct 🤔 

[Fellside]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

If you dont believe we have the right to question BASC , then you dont believe we have the right to question anybody or anything.

Of course you have a right to question. You will find equally however others have a right to question your repetitive attacks. We get it! We know why you hate BASC. We got the gist a couple of days ago actually. Just a thought: in the time you’ve spent on this BASC hating thread you could have taken a newbie shooting and written to 10 MPs. 

[Rim Fire]

36 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Lets be clear here , you say non BASC members ? To a man , they are all EX BASC members, and they are EX for a reason.

You can choose to live in an echo chamber where BASC never gets anything wrong , and valiantly fights for shooting 24/7/365, or you can take them to account, question their motives when they do something wrong , and praise them when theyre right.
The lead ban proposals are a very serious issue for UK firearms users, and I dont believe BASC are taking it as seriously as they should. The reasons for this are probably because the type of shooting BASC favours ,CAN survive a lead ban.
The rest of us can be thrown under the bus.

If you dont believe we have the right to question BASC , then you dont believe we have the right to question anybody or anything.

👆 you cant argue with this 

[Fellside]

4 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

👆 you cant argue with this 

Well…..you can actually, but there’s very little point. I think some people have an extreme opinion and when they’ve  invested many hours expressing it, they refuse to acknowledge any other narrative. 

[Fellside]

Whats the weather like where you are? Just my silly attempt to change the subject…….😁

Works sometimes…..?!

[Rewulf]

35 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Of course you have a right to question. You will find equally however others have a right to question your repetitive attacks. We get it! We know why you hate BASC. We got the gist a couple of days ago actually. Just a thought: in the time you’ve spent on this BASC hating thread you could have taken a newbie shooting and written to 10 MPs. 

I dont hate BASC , that accusation is ridiculous, I question BASC , yes , repetitively , because very few of the very valid questions I ask , get answered.
The silence is truly deafening.

23 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Well…..you can actually, but there’s very little point. I think some people have an extreme opinion and when they’ve  invested many hours expressing it, they refuse to acknowledge any other narrative. 

Really ? 

Asking questions that people find difficult to answer , or pointing out where BASC got things wrong is an example of extreme opinion ?

A BASC rep could come on here and blow all my 'extreme' opinions and fake information out the water.

Couldnt they ?

On a side note , I write lots of letters to MPs and other interested parties , I am secretary at 2 Sec 1 clubs, and I constantly urge the 60 + membership at these clubs to do the same.

I personally mentor 'newbies' in gun handling , safety and marksmanship, Im fairly adept at licence application and legal stuff, I also  regularly take novices out on clay days.

Please dont paint me as just a keyboard warrior.

[BlaserF3]

52 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Of course you have a right to question. You will find equally however others have a right to question your repetitive attacks. We get it! We know why you hate BASC. We got the gist a couple of days ago actually. Just a thought: in the time you’ve spent on this BASC hating thread you could have taken a newbie shooting and written to 10 MPs. 

 

I wrote a lot of letters to MP's regarding the pistol ban, only one bothered to reply and that was Ann Widdecombe, she was always polite, but we lost our pistols.

[Fellside]

42 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

 

I wrote a lot of letters to MP's regarding the pistol ban, only one bothered to reply and that was Ann Widdecombe, she was always polite, but we lost our pistols.

Yes that was a great shame. Well done for trying though. I wish a lot more people were as proactive. 

[PeterHenry]

17 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I've asked, maybe Conor will come on and put me right? 

Many have, and come up with limited data on expenditure, produces more questions than answers. 

 

As I said. 

2020 off the top of my head. 

 

 

It is, but unless we have full transparency, it's all we've got. 

BASC seem to spend rather a lot of money on promoting the company, according to the 2017 report, and not so much providing services to members. 

Again, how much defending the sport? You might say, which part of the sport? 

The question at the top of the page, is do you trust BASC? It would be better to define, trust BASC  with what? 

Your money, your sport, or both? 

I mean no disrespect to you - but i'm going to draw a line now.

You obviously care greatly about our sport, as do I - and I imagine most others here. However, past experience suggests that our exchanges on this and related topics produce far more heat than light. 

[Fellside]

3 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

I mean no disrespect to you - but i'm going to draw a line now.

You obviously care greatly about our sport, as do I - and I imagine most others here. However, past experience suggests that our exchanges on this and related topics produce far more heat than light. 

Eloquently put sir.

[enfieldspares]

My issue is that if an organisation proclaims itself as "the authoritative voice of shooting" that it then opens itself open to criticism form both members and non-members alike. Not in my name are they such!

If BASC merely announced itself as "the voice of our 100,000 members" I'd have no axe to grind. But it doesn't. It self assumes by the words "the authoritative voice" a mantle of greater remit beyond the views of those 100,000.

And yes I too am an ex-BASC member and also an ex-SACS member. Left BASC over the Ali fiasco and left SACS over their support for the BASC lead ban initiative. I am now with CPSA that still, CPSA, still offers legal insurance against revocation or refusal to renew an SGC.

CPSA didn't sign up to the BASC lead ban and also include insurance liability cover for vermin shooting, game shooting, deer stalking and target shooting as well as clay shooting. And it's still cheaper than BASC!

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/files/download/1414/SL-CPSA-Leaflet-2022-Edition-Digital.pdf

Edited March 6, 2023 by enfieldspares

[BlaserF3]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

My issue is that if an organisation proclaims itself as "the authoritative voice of shooting" that it then opens itself open to criticism form both members and non-members alike. Not in my name are they such!

If BASC merely announced itself as "the voice of our 100,000 members" I'd have no axe to grind. But it doesn't. It self assumes by the words "the authoritative voice" a mantle of greater remit beyond the views of those 100,000.

And yes I too am an ex-BASC member and also an ex-SACS member. Left BASC over the Ali fiasco and left SACS over their support for the BASC lead ban initiative. I am now with CPSA that still, CPSA, still offers legal insurance against revocation or refusal to renew an SGC.

CPSA didn't sign up to the BASC lead ban and also include insurance liability cover for vermin shooting, game shooting, deer stalking and target shooting as well as clay shooting. And it's still cheaper than BASC!

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/files/download/1414/SL-CPSA-Leaflet-2022-Edition-Digital.pdf

The CPSA is a not for profit organisation too 😀

I was a member for many years when I shot registered but I became fed up of the cheating at sporting shoots.

27572 was my membership number.

I have  ccc3 insurance which is ok for me.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

The CPSA is a not for profit organisation too 😀

I was a member for many years when I shot registered but I became fed up of the cheating at sporting shoots.

27572 was my membership number.

I have  ccc3 insurance which is ok for me.

Yes that is a very disappointing aspect of the Registered set up.

[Scully]

Another exBASC member here. If I recall I first joined in the mid ‘80’s when I shot full bore pistol and rifle, affiliated to the NRA and NPA through my club. 
I regularly mentor kids at clays and game shooting, and have actively been involved in telling MP’s, the HO, the media etc etc exactly how it is.
In the interim between then and now I’ve also been a member of the SRA ( set up in frustration of the apathy and indifference of our major well established shooting organisations regarding the despicable media led and general public witch hunt of existing handgunners and impending legislation following Dunblane ) the CPSA and latterly the NGO. 
All have been found wanting in my opinion, and if I think they merit criticism they’ll get it. 
I didn’t vote labour at the last election, and I’m not a Conservative Party member, but that doesn’t exclude me from being able to criticise either. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, PeterHenry said:

I mean no disrespect to you - but i'm going to draw a line now.

You obviously care greatly about our sport, as do I - and I imagine most others here. However, past experience suggests that our exchanges on this and related topics produce far more heat than light. 

You are a gentleman Sir 

 

9 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

I have  ccc3 insurance which is ok for me.

Me too , legal cover and can be tailored to fit what you need.

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I dont hate BASC , that accusation is ridiculous, I question BASC , yes , repetitively , because very few of the very valid questions I ask , get answered.
The silence is truly deafening.

Really ? 

Asking questions that people find difficult to answer , or pointing out where BASC got things wrong is an example of extreme opinion ?

A BASC rep could come on here and blow all my 'extreme' opinions and fake information out the water.

Couldnt they ?

On a side note , I write lots of letters to MPs and other interested parties , I am secretary at 2 Sec 1 clubs, and I constantly urge the 60 + membership at these clubs to do the same.

I personally mentor 'newbies' in gun handling , safety and marksmanship, Im fairly adept at licence application and legal stuff, I also  regularly take novices out on clay days.

Please dont paint me as just a keyboard warrior.

Well done - great work re shooting support, genuinely impressive! My point was, that you could have done something better with your time - rather than reiterate the same old….. all over again, and again, and again…….! We all got the point many posts ago. What is the weather like where you are?
 

[Gordon R]

Quote

My point was, that you could have done something better with your time - rather than reiterate the same old….. all over again, and again, and again…….! We all got the point many posts ago.

Instead of being patronising, perhaps you could have just ignored them.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Well done - great work re shooting support, genuinely impressive! My point was, that you could have done something better with your time - rather than reiterate the same old….. all over again, and again, and again…….! We all got the point many posts ago. What is the weather like where you are?
 

Quite simple really , I enjoy nearly all aspects of shooting, I enjoy teaching those aspects I know enough about.
I enjoy the fact that we are free and able to do this.
To say WE got the point is not accurate, many on here  (and elsewhere) do NOT get the point, if the HSE gets its way, many of those aspects of shooting, particularly the gateway disciplines like air rifle , .22lr and small bore shotgun are simply going to disappear , not instantly , but take up will be limited over time, until there are fewer and fewer of us.

Its not all BASCs fault , government doesnt really like private firearm ownership, and will do whatever it can to curtail it.
But BASCs predominant interest of game shooting, seems to take priority over all the other aspects.
I will state that I believe BASC would be very happy with a healthy game bird industry, and little bothered if most other aspects, including target, and non commercial pest control , simply died out.
Whilst taking guns out of private ownership would be a step too far (at the moment) taking away the allegedly harmful ammunition that they use, is not.
The net result of this , with BASC , and anyone with a reasonable level of intelligence could see,  is a sure fire way to get people to give up their guns , and shooting interests.
How will a small bore rifle club , be able to continue if they have no access to lead .22lr ammunition ?
How will owners of small bore shotguns continue using them with no ammunition ?
How will our Olympic shooting team practice if they cant use the same lead bullets and pellets nearly everyone else uses ?
BASC , and the other orgs know this , and say they will protest most strongly against a lead ban, but how can they physically stop this , from destroying many aspects of shooting ?
Do they even care ? When at least THEIR interests will  survive  ?
All shooters need to be aware of the threat, because some dont seem to get the message.
 

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Instead of being patronising, perhaps you could have just ignored them.

How does that contribute? To recognising someone’s good work in the sport is hardly patronising. Neither is holding up a mirror to repetition. 

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Quite simple really , I enjoy nearly all aspects of shooting, I enjoy teaching those aspects I know enough about.
I enjoy the fact that we are free and able to do this.
To say WE got the point is not accurate, many on here  (and elsewhere) do NOT get the point, if the HSE gets its way, many of those aspects of shooting, particularly the gateway disciplines like air rifle , .22lr and small bore shotgun are simply going to disappear , not instantly , but take up will be limited over time, until there are fewer and fewer of us.

Its not all BASCs fault , government doesnt really like private firearm ownership, and will do whatever it can to curtail it.
But BASCs predominant interest of game shooting, seems to take priority over all the other aspects.
I will state that I believe BASC would be very happy with a healthy game bird industry, and little bothered if most other aspects, including target, and non commercial pest control , simply died out.
Whilst taking guns out of private ownership would be a step too far (at the moment) taking away the allegedly harmful ammunition that they use, is not.
The net result of this , with BASC , and anyone with a reasonable level of intelligence could see,  is a sure fire way to get people to give up their guns , and shooting interests.
How will a small bore rifle club , be able to continue if they have no access to lead .22lr ammunition ?
How will owners of small bore shotguns continue using them with no ammunition ?
How will our Olympic shooting team practice if they cant use the same lead bullets and pellets nearly everyone else uses ?
BASC , and the other orgs know this , and say they will protest most strongly against a lead ban, but how can they physically stop this , from destroying many aspects of shooting ?
Do they even care ? When at least THEIR interests will  survive  ?
All shooters need to be aware of the threat, because some dont seem to get the message.
 

I understand and share many of your frustrations - and I’m sure others do. We really have got your point thanks, i.e. those you have addressed here on PW. I feel your frustration, honestly, but I don’t think you can achieve any more now. 

I certainly don’t think I can add anything further - so I will leave our discussion and wish you well. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

We really have got your point thanks, i.e. those you have addressed here on PW. I feel your frustration, honestly, but I don’t think you can achieve any more now. 

You really can't leave it alone. Rewulf can repeat it as many times as he wants. Ignore them, but it isn't your place to tell him to stop.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Quite simple really , I enjoy nearly all aspects of shooting, I enjoy teaching those aspects I know enough about.
I enjoy the fact that we are free and able to do this.
To say WE got the point is not accurate, many on here  (and elsewhere) do NOT get the point, if the HSE gets its way, many of those aspects of shooting, particularly the gateway disciplines like air rifle , .22lr and small bore shotgun are simply going to disappear , not instantly , but take up will be limited over time, until there are fewer and fewer of us.

Its not all BASCs fault , government doesnt really like private firearm ownership, and will do whatever it can to curtail it.
But BASCs predominant interest of game shooting, seems to take priority over all the other aspects.
I will state that I believe BASC would be very happy with a healthy game bird industry, and little bothered if most other aspects, including target, and non commercial pest control , simply died out.
Whilst taking guns out of private ownership would be a step too far (at the moment) taking away the allegedly harmful ammunition that they use, is not.
The net result of this , with BASC , and anyone with a reasonable level of intelligence could see,  is a sure fire way to get people to give up their guns , and shooting interests.
How will a small bore rifle club , be able to continue if they have no access to lead .22lr ammunition ?
How will owners of small bore shotguns continue using them with no ammunition ?
How will our Olympic shooting team practice if they cant use the same lead bullets and pellets nearly everyone else uses ?
BASC , and the other orgs know this , and say they will protest most strongly against a lead ban, but how can they physically stop this , from destroying many aspects of shooting ?
Do they even care ? When at least THEIR interests will  survive  ?
All shooters need to be aware of the threat, because some dont seem to get the message.
 

To follow on from this, I genuinely believe there will come a time when again, only the landed gentry, their close associates and the wealthy can afford to shoot driven game, and I am strongly of the impression BASC wouldn’t be too bothered if this were the case. 
I believe this due to BASC’s response to me regarding my criticism of their ‘keep a low profile’ policy following Dunblane, when one rep’ told me ‘well BASC isn’t really a handgun based organisation’. It was however, very much a ‘we’ll still take your membership fees though’ kind of organisation. 
Not much needs to be banned to be honest, for my first paragraph to become a reality, all that needs to happen is for your average bloke to be priced out of shooting. 

 

[BlaserF3]

Scully, that's my feeling too. No airguns no .22 rimfire, but it doesn't matter to those who just shoot driven game, very selfish but that's what money does to people 🙄

[Fellside]

36 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

You really can't leave it alone. Rewulf can repeat it as many times as he wants. Ignore them, but it isn't your place to tell him to stop.

Stop repeating yourself…… 😁

[Fellside]

Just now, Fellside said:

Stop repeating yourself…… 😁

Seriously though, I do humbly apologise if I have rattled a cage here and there (unintentionally) but felt it necessary to put some of the more irrational BASC hatred under the spotlight and bring some context. Some are happy to have their views challenged, perhaps others aren’t.  I do completely understand the frustrations however - as regards the very real threats to shooting.  Before this all kicks off again - my comments here are not directed at any single individual. It’s like the Faulty Towers German sketch, “I may have mentioned the war but I think I got away with it.”