The narrative is changing - Electric Cars

[discobob]

Once touted as the great white (if I can say that word) hope, electric cars are now starting to be in the sights of the green/eco/Net Zero brigade, focussing on the damage to the environment caused by Lithium mining and are now pushing for a world with less cars in "walking cities" - including Electric ones.

These are the cities that we will be forced to move into - leaving the countryside to the great and good to do what they want to away from prying eyes because we will be unable to leave the cities only using approved routes (trains to other cities) and they can control that view - maybe the trains won't have windows - just monitors showing you the outside decimated....

There is a series on Apple called "The Silo" - may be an interesting watch for some people.

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, discobob said:

Once touted as the great white (if I can say that word) hope, electric cars are now starting to be in the sights of the green/eco/Net Zero brigade, focussing on the damage to the environment caused by Lithium mining and are now pushing for a world with less cars in "walking cities" - including Electric ones.

These are the cities that we will be forced to move into - leaving the countryside to the great and good to do what they want to away from prying eyes because we will be unable to leave the cities only using approved routes (trains to other cities) and they can control that view - maybe the trains won't have windows - just monitors showing you the outside decimated....

There is a series on Apple called "The Silo" - may be an interesting watch for some people.

Surely this is a conspiracy on the level of lizard people. No sane person can seriously be suggesting this.

[discobob]

I know it reads as such. The second part may be pushing it but it is the type of future we are heading to

https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/us-study-finds-electric-vehicle-reliance-must-be-reduced

[GingerCat]

I've also thought hydrogen is the answer. Toyota honda and others are going that way.

If honda made a toothbrush I'd buy it. 

[Shadowchaser]

The trouble is since the 1920's successive governments in the UK failed to herald the advent of the motor car. 

Houses were still being built without off road parking.  No one foresaw that households would have 2, 3 or 4 vehicles. Why I don't know. 

From the 1920's onwards any new build estates should've have catered for this.  Even on new build estates today there are cars strewn everywhere.  

In terms of reducing vehicle impact there has been word of so called 15 minute cities, where everything, work, shopping etc would be no more than a 15 minute walk or bike ride away.  Some folk are up in arms about this, but isn't this how people used to live in villages? 

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Shadowchaser said:

The trouble is since the 1920's successive governments in the UK failed to herald the advent of the motor car. 

Houses were still being built without off road parking.  No one foresaw that households would have 2, 3 or 4 vehicles. Why I don't know. 

From the 1920's onwards any new build estates should've have catered for this.  Even on new build estates today there are cars strewn everywhere.  

In terms of reducing vehicle impact there has been word of so called 15 minute cities, where everything, work, shopping etc would be no more than a 15 minute walk or bike ride away.  Some folk are up in arms about this, but isn't this how people used to live in villages? 

The difference today is both adults generally go to work. Imagine carting the full trolley load of weekly shop a 15 minute walk away, or having to visit the shops daily.

[Shadowchaser]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The difference today is both adults generally go to work. Imagine carting the full trolley load of weekly shop a 15 minute walk away, or having to visit the shops daily.

A valid point indeed.  I don't agree with most of this climate change/net zero stuff. I do agree that the climate may well be changing, but it always has. Didn't the Romans grow grapes as far north as York?  The world has been hot before and I doubt anything man has done in the past 150 years has had that significant an impact. 

However the only way to go full net zero is to surely go back to the pre industrial age.  Nelsons fleet was net zero wasn't it?

I just don't like the way things are forced upon us through coercion and legislation.  When the internal combustion engine was invented it wasn't forced on anyone. 

 

[sutty2006]

I think a big impact on this subject is people working in the city and commuting in from far away. Longer commutes means more traffic on the road. I am fortunate to work 4 miles from my home. But have commuted 76 mile round trip each day in previous job. I don’t miss sitting in traffic. Personally, I think folk should either find jobs closer to home, or think about moving closer to work. I know it’ll never happen, but the theory is there. 
 

no surprise on the Green Party not being happy about electric cars, if everything went net zero tomorrow, they’d be protesting and campaigning for farting to be banned. They’re never happy. 

[oowee]

You would expect less cars as we need to commute and travel less. More and more working from home, more and more car clubs. I don't see the changes as forced more a case of changing trends. We were never forced into personal mobility with combustion engines. Habits have to change and develop as the resources available change with supply and demand. Even without the climate pressure there are natural resource pressures for, air, food, water and shelter that have to be either managed or rationed by the free market. We either make positive changes voluntarily through legislation or they will be managed for us. 

44 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

I've also thought hydrogen is the answer. Toyota honda and others are going that way.

If honda made a toothbrush I'd buy it. 

All the manufacturers have hydrogen in the future build programs its a phasing and technology issue. 

[12gauge82]

33 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

A valid point indeed.  I don't agree with most of this climate change/net zero stuff. I do agree that the climate may well be changing, but it always has. Didn't the Romans grow grapes as far north as York?  The world has been hot before and I doubt anything man has done in the past 150 years has had that significant an impact. 

However the only way to go full net zero is to surely go back to the pre industrial age.  Nelsons fleet was net zero wasn't it?

I just don't like the way things are forced upon us through coercion and legislation.  When the internal combustion engine was invented it wasn't forced on anyone. 

 

Good post, I fully agree.

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

You would expect less cars as we need to commute and travel less. More and more working from home, more and more car clubs. I don't see the changes as forced more a case of changing trends. We were never forced into personal mobility with combustion engines. Habits have to change and develop as the resources available change with supply and demand. Even without the climate pressure there are natural resource pressures for, air, food, water and shelter that have to be either managed or rationed by the free market. We either make positive changes voluntarily through legislation or they will be managed for us. 

All the manufacturers have hydrogen in the future build programs its a phasing and technology issue. 

The thing is, it's just yet another issue that will worsen the quality of the average person. The world doesn't work for the working masses and if things carry on the way they're going, at some point it'll all end up like other great civilizations in history, where the elites of society take too much from the bottom and insurrection and societal collapse follows.

[yates]

47 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

I think a big impact on this subject is people working in the city and commuting in from far away. Longer commutes means more traffic on the road. I am fortunate to work 4 miles from my home. But have commuted 76 mile round trip each day in previous job. I don’t miss sitting in traffic. Personally, I think folk should either find jobs closer to home, or think about moving closer to work. I know it’ll never happen, but the theory is there. 
 

no surprise on the Green Party not being happy about electric cars, if everything went net zero tomorrow, they’d be protesting and campaigning for farting to be banned. They’re never happy. 

Don't understand why people don't chose to work close to home 

[discobob]

21 minutes ago, yates said:

Don't understand why people don't chose to work close to home 

Lack of opportunity? Lack of employment? Property too expensive where they do work? 
Personal choice of where you want to live. 
My job I am in now, when I took it it was a 30 minute drive. The day I started they announced they were moving across the river into the City Centre which made my commute either 1hr 30 to 2 hours daily with tunnel fees and parking fees - or 2.5 to 3 hours putting the train in the mix

The couf hit and luckily it is now 1 day in the office

[oowee]

20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The thing is, it's just yet another issue that will worsen the quality of the average person. The world doesn't work for the working masses and if things carry on the way they're going, at some point it'll all end up like other great civilizations in history, where the elites of society take too much from the bottom and insurrection and societal collapse follows.

Its always been the way that the working masses have the least resources, hence the Labour movement. We also have to accept that we are part of a declining empire that inevitably has a reducing share. 

[discobob]

And another link to it. Never voted for WEF as far as I know

 

[Cosmicblue]

I'd like to offer a slightly alternate view.

1) Battery technology and associated chemistry is changing rapidly, current EV battery tech is caught in a loop where more range = bigger battery = bigger vehicle = more weight.  Right now lithium is current tech, that will get superseded quickly. 

2) An article on Toyota's roadmap was published a week or so back: Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough could offer +900 miles driving range

3) I think we are in the twilight years of car ownership for personal transport - an EV is much closer to an 'appliance', like a washing machine.  When an electric motor is the power source, aside from suspension design they are all going to be similar to drive, some will be quicker than others but that's about it.   As the tech is evolving rapidly the rate of depreciation accelerates - no normal individual will want that cost burden.    Its already happening  6 months ago the Audi Etron S was nudging £100k, now they can be picked up used for £50-£55k - a scary loss.

4) The number of teenagers learning to drive each year has been falling for 10 years or more: Number of young drivers plunges to record low

5) Autonomous vehicles are already a reality and regulatory approval seems inevitable.   I can see, perhaps 10 years from now that we'll have something like an Uber app on our mobile devices that will summon a vehicle without a driver to take us to our destination - a depressing thought.   Perhaps we will have a monthly subscription for say 2,000 miles of travel for a fixed fee?

6) So whilst some suggest that countryside dwellers will have to move into the cities I can't personally see that happening.

 

 

 

 

[Shadowchaser]

I guess everything is always in flux.  300 years ago how did you get from London to York? By horse or you walked.  Yes we had canals for moving things in bulk but I don't think they were ever used for human transportation in the main.

I certainly couldn't manage without a car, living in a rural area.  How would I get to a shooting ground, how could I pop to Asda and then Matalan and then to another town to buy some ammo and the back home?  It would be hell, or I just wouldn't be able to do it. 

As I've said, it's the legislative pressure that's the main problem and the green propaganda. 

And working from home? I guess since I work on what used to be a farm (and live here) then I do work from home, but many can't. 

Here's what the worlds richest man had to say about working from home:   

 

 

[oowee]

31 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

I'd like to offer a slightly alternate view.

1) Battery technology and associated chemistry is changing rapidly, current EV battery tech is caught in a loop where more range = bigger battery = bigger vehicle = more weight.  Right now lithium is current tech, that will get superseded quickly. 

2) An article on Toyota's roadmap was published a week or so back: Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough could offer +900 miles driving range

3) I think we are in the twilight years of car ownership for personal transport - an EV is much closer to an 'appliance', like a washing machine.  When an electric motor is the power source, aside from suspension design they are all going to be similar to drive, some will be quicker than others but that's about it.   As the tech is evolving rapidly the rate of depreciation accelerates - no normal individual will want that cost burden.    Its already happening  6 months ago the Audi Etron S was nudging £100k, now they can be picked up used for £50-£55k - a scary loss.

4) The number of teenagers learning to drive each year has been falling for 10 years or more: Number of young drivers plunges to record low

5) Autonomous vehicles are already a reality and regulatory approval seems inevitable.   I can see, perhaps 10 years from now that we'll have something like an Uber app on our mobile devices that will summon a vehicle without a driver to take us to our destination - a depressing thought.   Perhaps we will have a monthly subscription for say 2,000 miles of travel for a fixed fee?

6) So whilst some suggest that countryside dwellers will have to move into the cities I can't personally see that happening.

 

 

 

 

I would agree with most of that. When the Leaf was launched in Geneva it had a range of just over 100 miles. Pretty much the same as the first electric cars in 1910. Huge strides since. 

On point 6 rather than see countryside dwellers having to move to cities its more likely to be economic efficiencies that causes the shift. Ever greater residential densities in cities together with ever increasing efficiencies of ownership, coupled with increasing costs of living in rural locations and reducing opportunities will maybe bring about a natural change. I guess its a change that has been happening since the land reform act. 

[London Best]

@Cosmicblue: When I have summoned the driverless vehicle to take me to my destination, will it be able to take my caravan as well, and stay with me overnight to ferry me back and forth to various woods to collect two or three deer (4wd a must) before bringing the caravan home? 
Useless idea!

[discobob]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

Ever greater residential densities in cities together with ever increasing efficiencies of ownership

So, the future will be living in apartments (more like cubes) and I suspect at some point they will introduce birth control and having to apply for permission to have a child because of limited cubes with enough space for people with kids....and you think we will own those??🤣

 

9 hours ago, oowee said:

coupled with increasing costs of living in rural locations and reducing opportunities

That will be artificially introduced/increased to coerce you into doing it...

[Penelope]

22 hours ago, discobob said:

Once touted as the great white (if I can say that word) hope, electric cars are now starting to be in the sights of the green/eco/Net Zero brigade, focussing on the damage to the environment caused by Lithium mining and are now pushing for a world with less cars in "walking cities" - including Electric ones.

These are the cities that we will be forced to move into - leaving the countryside to the great and good to do what they want to away from prying eyes because we will be unable to leave the cities only using approved routes (trains to other cities) and they can control that view - maybe the trains won't have windows - just monitors showing you the outside decimated....

There is a series on Apple called "The Silo" - may be an interesting watch for some people.

The great democracy experiment is over; it's a return to feudal times for us.

12 hours ago, discobob said:

Lack of opportunity? Lack of employment? Property too expensive where they do work? 
Personal choice of where you want to live. 
My job I am in now, when I took it it was a 30 minute drive. The day I started they announced they were moving across the river into the City Centre which made my commute either 1hr 30 to 2 hours daily with tunnel fees and parking fees - or 2.5 to 3 hours putting the train in the mix

The couf hit and luckily it is now 1 day in the office

I work in the CIty of London, try buying or even renting anything affordable anywhere close 🤣🤣🤣.

[Cosmicblue]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

@Cosmicblue: When I have summoned the driverless vehicle to take me to my destination, will it be able to take my caravan as well, and stay with me overnight to ferry me back and forth to various woods to collect two or three deer (4wd a must) before bringing the caravan home? 
Useless idea!

Caravans will be banned! 

More seriously though for a moment, our generation can drive and have grown up with the idea of personal transport - the youngsters that follow us have a different mindset.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

So, the future will be living in apartments (more like cubes) and I suspect at some point they will introduce birth control and having to apply for permission to have a child because of limited cubes with enough space for people with kids....and you think we will own those??🤣

 

That will be artificially introduced/increased to coerce you into doing it...

They will? Who are they? 

Rural living is currently subsidised by the cities.  Simply removing the current artificial subsidy will be enough to dampen enthusiasm for rural living. 

[Good shot?]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

They will? Who are they? . 

Do you not know?

[discobob]

47 minutes ago, oowee said:

Rural living is currently subsidised by the cities.  Simply removing the current artificial subsidy will be enough to dampen enthusiasm for rural living. 

Is it? Where do the cities get their food from - oh I - a supermarket 🤣. You really are a globalist aren't you Grant....was the food good at Davos and the Bilderberg get togethers?? Are you one of the chosen 1%

 

41 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

Do you not know?

Oh he does - he just wants to play word soup....