johnphilip Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 A very interesting video on the situation in Gaza from someone who understands the history behind all this . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 hours ago, johnphilip said: A very interesting video on the situation in Gaza from someone who understands the history behind all this . Seriously???? Yep lets encourage relocation again and the ethnic cleansing that goes with it (al Nakba) . Proposes gassing residents????? I suggest this is fox news at its finest. 8 hours ago, Rem260 said: Gaza run by a government who's stated aim is the destruction of the Jewish state. How do you suggest Israel defends its self from these terrorists ? Exactly the same has been said of N Ireland. It wont be with bombs and bullets. Every civilian killed is a new family recruited to Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, oowee said: Every civilian killed is a new family recruited to Hamas. Just a numbers game then and Israel has the capacity and the willingness to seek out all of Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Quote Exactly the same has been said of N Ireland. It wont be with bombs and bullets. Every civilian killed is a new family recruited to Hamas. This is on a totally different scale. Whilst there have been killings, I don't recall the Northern Irish stating their intent to wipe out the English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 41 minutes ago, Gordon R said: This is on a totally different scale. Whilst there have been killings, I don't recall the Northern Irish stating their intent to wipe out the English. I don't either. I meant in terms of an apparently intractable conflict. On the face of it the only way forward is bombs and bullets, but rather than resolve anything they simply make the problem more intractable. On the face of it there is no solution. There is always something else that gets in the way of any answer (flags, borders, vengeance and power) and yet the majority of the two sides want to live in peace. The same was true in N Ireland. 52 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Just a numbers game then and Israel has the capacity and the willingness to seek out all of Hamas. They have not been able to do it to date. Hamas is more than the recruits within it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 I have great sympathy with the average Palestinian and their current plight, but this is the terrorist party that they voted for. What did they expect? I have more sympathy for the Israelis who seem to be surrounded by people wanting to kill them. I see no willingness to live in peaceful co-existence, but it is the only sensible option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 33 minutes ago, oowee said: I don't either. I meant in terms of an apparently intractable conflict. On the face of it the only way forward is bombs and bullets, but rather than resolve anything they simply make the problem more intractable. On the face of it there is no solution. There is always something else that gets in the way of any answer (flags, borders, vengeance and power) and yet the majority of the two sides want to live in peace. The same was true in N Ireland. They have not been able to do it to date. Hamas is more than the recruits within it. Another good post. It would take a monumental act of forgiveness for someone who has just lost children to instead of seeking vengeance, seek a means to make peace for the sake of the generations to come. But even if there were such a person, it’s just one voice in a multitude of others calling for vengeance. They are therefore stuck in a never ending loop of their own making, of killings and retribution. It will take those who want peace ABOVE ALL ELSE, to make a start, but I don’t think any of them want it that badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 Israel can’t negotiate with Hamas since Hamas’ primary objective is to wipe Israel off the map. Egypt has spent a long time and a lot of money sorting out its own nutter problem and won’t want to resettle a million plus indoctrinated loons. Ditto Turkey. Oddly, the Gaza strip is the most amazing piece of seaside real estate nestling in with Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Cyprus. The Palestinians had the chance to build Dubai / Sharm lite (and probably with the support of its neighbours) and which would have brought stability and wealth to the wider region. They chose a different path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mungler said: Israel can’t negotiate with Hamas since Hamas’ primary objective is to wipe Israel off the map. Egypt has spent a long time and a lot of money sorting out its own nutter problem and won’t want to resettle a million plus indoctrinated loons. Ditto Turkey. Oddly, the Gaza strip is the most amazing piece of seaside real estate nestling in with Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Cyprus. The Palestinians had the chance to build Dubai / Sharm lite (and probably with the support of its neighbours) and which would have brought stability and wealth to the wider region. They chose a different path. Very succinct summing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 On 22/10/2023 at 19:28, oowee said: We march for the oppressed. Atrocities from Hamas are awful but they are terrorists. What is not expected is atrocities at leisure from the IDF a state force that acts to uphold the law. Women, children and innocents slaughtered day after day. How can the world stand by? If we don't have the rule of law then we have nothing. Israel sit back and manage a prison for 2m people run by terrorists. The country itself riven by inequality and sub division (i would use another word but I might get banned). It's never going to end well. There is no solution for either side in bombs, rockets and bullets. Which banner were you holding for the oppressed. Was it the "Free Palistine" or "Down with Hamas" as I didn't see any of the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Which banner were you holding for the oppressed. Was it the "Free Palistine" or "Down with Hamas" as I didn't see any of the latter. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Which banner were you holding for the oppressed. Was it the "Free Palistine" or "Down with Hamas" as I didn't see any of the latter. Or the Pride flag that got ripped down and the holders given a beating from the Free Palestine mob, they were there to support? As I wrote previously, useful idiots, although perhaps not so useful in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dessyb Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 nice weather for it😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Penelope said: Or the Pride flag that got ripped down and the holders given a beating from the Free Palestine mob, they were there to support? That’s hilarious! Got a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mungler said: Israel can’t negotiate with Hamas since Hamas’ primary objective is to wipe Israel off the map. Egypt has spent a long time and a lot of money sorting out its own nutter problem and won’t want to resettle a million plus indoctrinated loons. Ditto Turkey. Oddly, the Gaza strip is the most amazing piece of seaside real estate nestling in with Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Cyprus. The Palestinians had the chance to build Dubai / Sharm lite (and probably with the support of its neighbours) and which would have brought stability and wealth to the wider region. They chose a different path. Israel are already negotiating with Hamas. Egypt or Turkey don't want to accept a population that will not be able to return, assisting Israels ethnic cleansing in the process. You can't build Dubai / Sharm without materials and supplies. Apparently even the stuff built is made with minimal concrete. 2 hours ago, Rem260 said: Which banner were you holding for the oppressed. Was it the "Free Palistine" or "Down with Hamas" as I didn't see any of the latter. It's all the same I guess. I doubt down with Hamas works if the next up is equally oppressive. We need a more enlightened govt in Israel to start the process? Edited October 24, 2023 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Scully said: That’s hilarious! Got a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 Quote We need a more enlightened govt in Israel to start the process? Just how enlightened would the Israelis need to be to assist people whose stated intention was to kill all Israelis? It might be better if Hamas had not attacked Israel. I don't recall any rallies where Palestinians were slated because they wanted to kill their neighbours. Now it is the Israeli's stated intention to wipe out Hamas, prompting anti-semite rallies. It's a one way street, especially when Hamas are facing oblivion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 hours ago, oowee said: We need a more enlightened govt in Israel to start the process? One that forgives what Hamas did on the 7th of October? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 36 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: One that forgives what Hamas did on the 7th of October? One that understands the implications of its actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, oowee said: One that understands the implications of its actions. I think the combined Israeli Government is extremely aware of the implications of its actions. They will not stop until Hamas is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: Just how enlightened would the Israelis need to be to assist people whose stated intention was to kill all Israelis? It might be better if Hamas had not attacked Israel. I don't recall any rallies where Palestinians were slated because they wanted to kill their neighbours. Now it is the Israeli's stated intention to wipe out Hamas, prompting anti-semite rallies. It's a one way street, especially when Hamas are facing oblivion. It would have been better if Hamas had not attacked Israel. It would have been better if Palestinian land had not been stolen and the residents of Gaza imprisoned. There are many wrongs on both sides. The choice is simple fight until resources or opinion stops the process or negotiate a new future. What solution would you propose? Unfortunately it takes a strong leader to take a bold step. Rabin or Arafat (lapid?) In that part of the world it impacts life expectancy. 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I think the combined Israeli Government is extremely aware of the implications of its actions. They will not stop until Hamas is history. They have tried but its hard to imagine how they think its possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 minute ago, oowee said: They have tried but its hard to imagine how they think its possible. No it isn't hard at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 It's hard to forgive and forget but our late queen had to with the IRA after they bombed Lord Mountbatten in the name of peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) Quote What solution would you propose? At some point both sides need to agree to co-exist. Palestine should stop avowing to kill all Israelis. Given what Hamas has just done, I think it would be too much to expect Israel to help rebuild what will have been flattened. Perhaps the outraged mobs could dip into their pockets and finance it. What is doesn't need is other countries attacking Israel. The surrounding countries seem happy to provide finance for arms, but not to build a better Palestine.That will only end in tears. As Mungler has said - There is the coastline ripe for tourism, but it would be a long, long term aim and it has to be better than just killing people. Searching for a Palestinian of stature who could bring about peace, is almost as difficult as finding a decent UK Government. Rim Fire - exactly. Edited October 24, 2023 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 24, 2023 Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 with the death tolls at 5,791 Palestinians and 1,400 Israelis excuses for Israel obliterating Gaza ran out 4,391 dead Palestinians ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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