CaptC Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Picked this up today on my travels. Very heavy, 7.25” long with a bore similar to a 20 bore. Cast in two pieces? Touch hole is a good 1.5” deep which makes me think it’s a working cannon. I have put a wooden rod down the barrel and it goes in 4.5” - obviously either still loaded (?) or made not to fire. The breech end in front of the touch hole might have some markings. It’s not rusty but it’s seen a few years. Alas no trunnion. Thoughts please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down South Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 (edited) Miniature canons were often used by yacht clubs to start and finish races. The Royal yacht squadron at Cowes still use them. They are larger and fancier than yours. That’s a nice thing you’ve found. Could have been used by a model yacht club. Edited January 2 by Down South Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Does it have a Serial number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 Thanks - but I don't think it is "starter gun" - they were a lot more "fancy" in their design. It is currentlt muzzle down with a lot of WD 40 squirted in the touch hole to see if it may perhaps seep through 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Does it have a Serial number? No, any markings ie Proof marks are long gone but as said above, it is wear and tare not rust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Teague will multi choke it and proof for steel if you fancy it. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 It woud need to be proof tested first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 With no marks for proof of age age your probably going to Need a fac to own it the starting cannons at cowes fire black powder blanks 10 bore and require a fac nice find though 😊😊👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Many, many years ago when I was a scout we were out with a trek cart collecting for a jumble sale and a model cannon was donated. It was very like your one but was fully mounted in a wooden gun carriage, just like a full size one. Obviously we had to see if it worked, so we emptied the powder from a few bangers into the barrel, packed bit of cloth for a wad and dropped in a ball bearing. We used a couple of inches of Jetex fuse, lit it and stood well back. By golly they must have heard it go off half a mile away. The ball went straight through a wooden fence and out into some waste land never to be seen again Fabulous fun. Wish I still had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 27 minutes ago, Westward said: Many, many years ago when I was a scout we were out with a trek cart collecting for a jumble sale and a model cannon was donated. It was very like your one but was fully mounted in a wooden gun carriage, just like a full size one. Obviously we had to see if it worked, so we emptied the powder from a few bangers into the barrel, packed bit of cloth for a wad and dropped in a ball bearing. We used a couple of inches of Jetex fuse, lit it and stood well back. By golly they must have heard it go off half a mile away. The ball went straight through a wooden fence and out into some waste land never to be seen again Fabulous fun. Wish I still had it. Wonderful story! 29 minutes ago, Old farrier said: With no marks for proof of age age your probably going to Need a fac to own it the starting cannons at cowes fire black powder blanks 10 bore and require a fac nice find though 😊😊👍 Don't think it would need an FAC as obsolete calibre - that is, if the WD40 works through the possible load or else it is an ornament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, CaptC said: Wonderful story! Don't think it would need an FAC as obsolete calibre - that is, if the WD40 works through the possible load or else it is an ornament No marks to prove its age hopefully your license department is more sensible than ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 5 minutes ago, Old farrier said: No marks to prove its age hopefully your license department is more sensible than ours Visualy its at least Victorian - Holts are down this way in January and I will take it along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 40 minutes ago, Westward said: Many, many years ago when I was a scout we were out with a trek cart collecting for a jumble sale and a model cannon was donated. It was very like your one but was fully mounted in a wooden gun carriage, just like a full size one. Obviously we had to see if it worked, so we emptied the powder from a few bangers into the barrel, packed bit of cloth for a wad and dropped in a ball bearing. We used a couple of inches of Jetex fuse, lit it and stood well back. By golly they must have heard it go off half a mile away. The ball went straight through a wooden fence and out into some waste land never to be seen again Fabulous fun. Wish I still had it. JETEX ...............now that is a word ...the last time i had one must have been 60 years ago......christ the enjine used to get super hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 (edited) It looks like a period replica of an RML (rifled muzzle loading) gun of the late 19th Century IMHO. The sort of thing you see pictures (yes it's post invention of the camera) or drawings of steadfast Victorians posed by imposing redoubts or of Americans looking all "American Civil War" whilst posing around Vicksburg, Richmond, Atlanta or wherever else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RML_7-inch_Armstrong_Gun If it were of that period and the flash hold communicating to the chamber (so made as to be able to be fired) it'd have needed to have been proofed. If of modern make...viz 1970s, 1980s and etc then ditto and according to the letter of the law as it is modern it'd need an FAC. So be thankful that IMHO it is definitely "vintage" and if not "vintage" but recent modern that it doesn't have communication between the flash hole and the chamber. It's a nice things and I hope the "Wiki" link might encourage you to made a carriage for it? Here's how the bigger ones worked: Edited January 2 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarepeg Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, CaptC said: Wonderful story! Don't think it would need an FAC as obsolete calibre - that is, if the WD40 works through the possible load or else it is an ornament Nearly killed myself using jetex fuse, home made rifle barrel clamped into a stock and welded at breach. touch hole drilled into bore, flash powder into muzzle and pellet rammed in. (Barrel a Webley mk2 service)😳 1/2 in jetex into fuse hole aim and light with smouldering string. smouldering embers in breach ignighted my powder vessel, I.e mothers salt cellar. still got the scars, hairs grown back but so close.. and putting 303 rounds in metal tube in cloth post at bottom of garden,hitting primer with a nail and hammer😳 Bullet went down street and case flew up it,daft,dozy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 What an excellent reply - many thanks! My cannon is certainly not "modern" and, as said, it does have some worn markings. I have squirted some Isoprophanol into the touch hole which along with the WD40 might help prove whether the cannon is loaded. I will watch the YouTube video later - noting that the gun shown is a breech loader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Scully said: Teague will multi choke it and proof for steel if you fancy it. 👍 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, CaptC said: Wonderful story! Don't think it would need an FAC as obsolete calibre - that is, if the WD40 works through the possible load or else it is an ornament Hi, From memory (and I would confirm this rather than just take my word for it) If it bears proof marks and modern then it's FAC as the barrel is under 24". If it's modern and isn't proofed then you you don't need on ticket. I have a brass cannon. It is "modern" but I have not had it proofed so it is an ornament. Of course though it does get fired every now and then. As it appears old enough and it bears no proof marks then I would say you are fine. This man is the expert: Simon West, Director of the GTA: https://www.instagram.com/bronzecannons/?hl=en-gb Give him a shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 Thank you very much. No proof marks, obsolete calibre and not a firearm (hopefully) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, Down South said: Miniature canons were often used by yacht clubs to start and finish races. The Royal yacht squadron at Cowes still use them. They are larger and fancier than yours. That’s a nice thing you’ve found. Could have been used by a model yacht club. A number of years ago a gunsmith friend of mine in Suffolk told me that the F1 engineers at Benetton came in with a 10 bore yacht starting cannon. They asked him if he could get it chambered and proofed and give it back thus putting on their shotgun certificate. They said they made it as a surprise present for Flavio for one of his upcoming yacht races. Admiring their work he had a strange feeling that something wasn't right. Ah.. gets tape measure. Measures barrel. 20". ******. "Guys" he said. "It's too short to go on your shotgun certificate. It needs to be at least 24" on the barrel length." They looked at each other, said expletives and said that they'd be back tomorrow. Tomorrow came and they returned with cannon wrapped in a towel. "How's this" they said. My friend got his tape measure out and it was just over 24". "That was quick making a new one" my friend said. "Oh no" they said, "it's the same barrel, we added four inches." They turned down the end, threaded it screwed and bonded the extension on. My friend said he could not see the join on the outside and the bore looked like it was all one piece. True story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 44 minutes ago, CaptC said: Thank you very much. No proof marks, obsolete calibre and not a firearm (hopefully) Guns like antique cannons and muzzle loading shotguns don't have obsolete calibre status if they are muzzle loading. The cartridge is the subject here, not the bore size. You can have one that's a 20 bore in internal barrel size and it will still be "off ticket" if it's antique and doesn't load 20 bore shells by breech loading. Only cartridge/breach loading guns that have a specific cartridge calibre listed on the obsolete calibre list set out by the Home Office are classed as obsolete. I have a 32 bore breech loading hammer gun. It is still on the obsolete calibre list as no ammo available in the UK. Not on my shotgun certificate unless I get the cartridges and intend on using it. (They are available from Fiocchi in Italy) Your cannon looks like a fun project. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 20 minutes ago, Fil said: Guns like antique cannons and muzzle loading shotguns don't have obsolete calibre status if they are muzzle loading. The cartridge is the subject here, not the bore size. You can have one that's a 20 bore in internal barrel size and it will still be "off ticket" if it's antique and doesn't load 20 bore shells by breech loading. Only cartridge/breach loading guns that have a specific cartridge calibre listed on the obsolete calibre list set out by the Home Office are classed as obsolete. I have a 32 bore breech loading hammer gun. It is still on the obsolete calibre list as no ammo available in the UK. Not on my shotgun certificate unless I get the cartridges and intend on using it. (They are available from Fiocchi in Italy) Your cannon looks like a fun project. Enjoy. Most kind. Tests are showing no fluids coming from the touch hole into the barrel but early days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Can you get a cheap bore camera to attach to your phone so you can have a proper poke around inside? Amazon must have a cheap offering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 28 minutes ago, ph5172 said: Can you get a cheap bore camera to attach to your phone so you can have a proper poke around inside? Amazon must have a cheap offering Brilliant idea. Always wanted a bore scope - handy to look into my wallet as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 (edited) 23 minutes ago, CaptC said: Brilliant idea. Always wanted a bore scope - handy to look into my wallet as well! have you a friendly protologist....he will have just the tool for the job... also try your local garage.. Edited January 2 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 6 minutes ago, ditchman said: have you a friendly protologist....he will have just the tool for the job... also try your local garage.. The proctologist’s tool might need a wash? I’m away for five days so will catch up on Sunday. Many, many thanks to all on PW who contributed. Always good to see the responses to my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.