discobob Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 I have just found out that the Government has instructed HMRC to now take action against people using eBay, Vinted, Etsy etc. to tax them if they make over £1000 in sales - irrespective of whether they are selling their 2nd hand stuff or new stuff - and they will also have to register as Self Employed if they are. This will obviously apply to shooters at some point in the future as they will be into everything in the next couple of years. Sell a gun privately- they will see the money in your account - kicking off a tax investigation Part-ex a gun - find a tax demand in the post a couple of weeks later as it will need to be reported. God help you if you are a higher rate tax payer as well!! This is the start of “you will own nothing” as if you do want to own something you will be taxed heavily for it at both ends - the buying and the selling!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Calm down dear................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 11 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Calm down dear................................... I’ll let you give me a massage on Sunday 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 25 minutes ago, discobob said: I have just found out that the Government has instructed HMRC to now take action against people using eBay, Vinted, Etsy etc. to tax them if they make over £1000 in sales - irrespective of whether they are selling their 2nd hand stuff or new stuff - and they will also have to register as Self Employed if they are. This will obviously apply to shooters at some point in the future as they will be into everything in the next couple of years. Sell a gun privately- they will see the money in your account - kicking off a tax investigation Part-ex a gun - find a tax demand in the post a couple of weeks later as it will need to be reported. God help you if you are a higher rate tax payer as well!! This is the start of “you will own nothing” as if you do want to own something you will be taxed heavily for it at both ends - the buying and the selling!! Yes I saw this earlier, why on earth should you pay tax on the private sales of secondhand goods. I wish nothing but bad things on this god awful Govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Many people use eBay, vinted etc to buy and then resell as a means to create income, and those who do will be taxed accordingly. Thats all it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) As far as I'm aware,,,, no-one will be paying tax upon selling a used [2nd hand] item for less than they bought it for. If you sell something used/2nd hand for more than you paid for it #,,,, that's called business and will be liable for tax on the profit,,,, if it's discovered of course 🙈 But I'm sure you already know that 😉 Edit to add ,,,, # if above a certain threshold 🥳 Edited January 3 by JKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The starting gate is £10000 so that's quite a few sales on the Bay of plEnty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, Scully said: Many people use eBay, vinted etc to buy and then resell as a means to create income, and those who do will be taxed accordingly. Thats all it is. They have had the facility to crack down on people who are running a side hustle business for a few years now - this is (as the report I saw says) is anyone making over a thousand selling anything. I pray that I am corrected but for now I am wearing my fur lined tin foil hat!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, discobob said: They have had the facility to crack down on people who are running a side hustle business for a few years now - this is (as the report I saw says) is anyone making over a thousand selling anything. I pray that I am corrected but for now I am wearing my fur lined tin foil hat!! As the main source seems to be the Guardian so I will wait to see the un politicised report from elsewhere for the actual details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, discobob said: They have had the facility to crack down on people who are running a side hustle business for a few years now - this is (as the report I saw says) is anyone making over a thousand selling anything. I pray that I am corrected but for now I am wearing my fur lined tin foil hat!! It’s not a ‘hustle’, it’s income. A bloke I know used to collect for a charity; he used to ‘siphon off’ clothes as he called it, and sell them online. It only affects those people earning over a certain threshold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The rules are explained here; https://uwm.co.uk/hmrc-ebay-tax-for-private-seller/ If you are selling old personal and private possessions - no problem. If you are buying to sell on, trading, buying then restoring/modifying then selling - then you will be seen as 'trading' - and will be liable to keep records and complete a self assessment. Tax will be liable - typically on 'trading profit' over £1000 per annum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 There are however a lot of people selling a lot of stuff on ebay and I have to wonder how many are declaring it Same as all the people doing AirBnB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 58 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: The starting gate is £10000 so that's quite a few sales on the Bay of plEnty. £1k or £10k it looks like £1k? I wonder if I can sell some items and offset the losses against my tax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: The rules are explained here; https://uwm.co.uk/hmrc-ebay-tax-for-private-seller/ If you are selling old personal and private possessions - no problem. If you are buying to sell on, trading, buying then restoring/modifying then selling - then you will be seen as 'trading' - and will be liable to keep records and complete a self assessment. Tax will be liable - typically on 'trading profit' over £1000 per annum. That is the old rules (the item you linked too is March 23) - that I said above they have had for a while. This is “rules” coming in now! sorry to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67855872 The new rules require digital platforms to report the income sellers are getting through their site routinely. It will apply to sales of goods such as things that have been handcrafted and second hand clothes, but also services including taxi hire, food delivery, freelance work and short-term accommodation lets or even renting out your driveway for parking. The information will be shared between countries that have signed up to the OECD tax rules. The government said the new rules would help it "bear down on tax evasion", as sellers on digital platforms would now be treated more like traditional businesses. An HMRC spokesperson said: "These new rules will support our work to help online sellers get their tax right first time. They will also help us detect any deliberate non-compliance, ensuring a level playing field for all taxpayers." Firms' first obligation to report information to HMRC will be at the end of January 2025 and will include information such as the tax ID, bank account details, and the value and volume of transactions for sellers whose activity is of significant enough size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 36 minutes ago, discobob said: That is the old rules (the item you linked too is March 23) - that I said above they have had for a while. This is “rules” coming in now! sorry to say As I understand it the rules on the taxation are unchanged. They are just the ordinary taxation rules relating to trading. You 'trade' and pay tax on your 'trading activities'. But many have largely ignored it and HMRC have not (easily anyway) been able to find out about it unless the seller makes a declaration. The new rule is that the 'platform providers' (e.g. eBay) are required to report incomes coming into 'sellers' as part of their trading. HMRC will therefore find it much easier to find those who are trading and should be paying tax. Tax liability has not changed, but the likelihood of being 'picked up' for not paying tax that is due (i.e. tax evasion) is higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 @JohnfromUK but it will be unforetold consequences though. You will find that everything is reported - from everyone - and it will be pulled from multiple platforms - so everyone will NEED to be reported - to be amalgamated at HMRC - who won’t have details of the transactions and they won’t know that Bill sold a carbon fibre bike that he bought 3 years ago for £6k and has now sold it for £2k - and a demand will be sent to Bill - who is a higher rate tax payer for £800 plus the ubiquitous fine for evading tax…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, discobob said: @JohnfromUK but it will be unforetold consequences though. You will find that everything is reported - from everyone - and it will be pulled from multiple platforms - so everyone will NEED to be reported - to be amalgamated at HMRC - who won’t have details of the transactions and they won’t know that Bill sold a carbon fibre bike that he bought 3 years ago for £6k and has now sold it for £2k - and a demand will be sent to Bill - who is a higher rate tax payer for £800 plus the ubiquitous fine for evading tax…. 😄 You really do need that tin foil hat! If you’re trading then you will pay tax, if you’re not then you won’t. No one is going to come knocking on anyone’s door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) 12 minutes ago, discobob said: @JohnfromUK but it will be unforetold consequences though. You will find that everything is reported - from everyone - and it will be pulled from multiple platforms - so everyone will NEED to be reported - to be amalgamated at HMRC - who won’t have details of the transactions and they won’t know that Bill sold a carbon fibre bike that he bought 3 years ago for £6k and has now sold it for £2k - and a demand will be sent to Bill - who is a higher rate tax payer for £800 plus the ubiquitous fine for evading tax…. Which is why if you are 'trading' you keep records so that you can show costs and expenses. However, because of widespread evasion, if you are likely to be 'seen as trading' because you sell a lot (maybe you have a large family and sell a lot of outgrown clothes and toys, bicycles etc.) you keep records to show that it is just outgrown family items and you are not making money. IF you are buying a bike for £6K, and later sell for £2K, there is no tax liability. No problem. However, if you sell 20 x £2k bikes a year, I would keep good records as you may have some explaining to do. If you are not trading you should have no issues. If you are trading you should be keeping records and paying any tax due on 'trading profit'. Always been the law. Edited January 3 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 May I just point you towards Mr Bates Vs The Post Office i may be wearing a tin foil hat (fur lined for winter) but I also think there are people who are wearing rose tinted glasses. Over the past few years I have learnt that where a government can do you over - they will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serrac Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: The rules are explained here; https://uwm.co.uk/hmrc-ebay-tax-for-private-seller/ If you are selling old personal and private possessions - no problem. If you are buying to sell on, trading, buying then restoring/modifying then selling - then you will be seen as 'trading' - and will be liable to keep records and complete a self assessment. Tax will be liable - typically on 'trading profit' over £1000 per annum. The problem might be proving you are not "trading". My daughter lost a lot of weight and sold pretty much her entire wardrobe on ebay, and the total came to well over £1000. Having not kept receipts she would have a hard time proving she was selling-on her own clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Just now, discobob said: May I just point you towards Mr Bates Vs The Post Office i may be wearing a tin foil hat (fur lined for winter) but I also think there are people who are wearing rose tinted glasses. Over the past few years I have learnt that where a government can do you over - they will It is no different to now. If you are trading (i.e. running a business to make money), you need to keep records. Where money changes hands regularly, or in quantity, HMRC (and potentially other 'official' parties) will be watching to ensure they get their cut as set out in tax laws. I can't see where the sudden problem arises. The new rules simply make it easier for HMRC (and overseas equivalents) to spot tax evasion. If you aren't trading, you don't have a problem. If you are trading, keeping records and not evading tax, you don't have a problem. If you are trading but keep no records and (possibly) evading tax - I would start keeping some records and work out if you owe tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 9 minutes ago, discobob said: May I just point you towards Mr Bates Vs The Post Office i may be wearing a tin foil hat (fur lined for winter) but I also think there are people who are wearing rose tinted glasses. Over the past few years I have learnt that where a government can do you over - they will Having been self employed for around 25 years, in which I buy and sell all manner of things, plus provide services, I can’t say I’ll lose a single nights sleep over this. Have you considered medication? 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, serrac said: The problem might be proving you are not "trading". In the case you have mentioned, unless it was spread over several years, all generating over £1000, I doubt they would see it as trading. If you are regularly (e.g. every year) selling £1000s worth of second hand items, I would suggest keeping some records. It does smack of 'trading', so being able to show costs for each sale would be a wise move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 It's as if they genuinely don't want re-electing. I wonder how much income this will generate them? Or, more realistically, how much less will it be than the staff costs of the inevitable battalion of civil servants they will hire to manage this? Even if there's no prima facia change in the rules around income, the optics of this are terrible given the chicken feed amount in revenue it'll generate. Osborne, Hunt, Sunak, as chancellors all about as conservative as Gordon Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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