Vince Green Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 (edited) 31 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: I think, Sir, you'll find the real tax dodgers are the regular folk you see at car boot sales with what appears to be new stock. All cash in hand. For then eBay is too much of a "paper" trail. When my late Mum worked as a volunteer at the local Hospice Charity Shop the bulk of their sales were to resellers. Edited January 4 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, discobob said: @ScullyYou keep fixating on this operating as a business - that is not the issue. It is people who may have a mass clear out - or someone who has given up a hobby and is selling their stuff - that could be in the order of thousands - Sells it on eBay to then gets the letter - and then has to prove that they are not trading......They are creating a little bit of revenue from stuff that you can bet they have paid a hell of a lot more for... You said it yourself - trying to deal with HMRC is very exhausting - and in 2025 i bet there will be multiple points that will be replaced with ChatBots and AI and will be even harder to deal with and speak with a person... I think we had best leave it here as we are getting nowhere @JohnfromUK I haven't heard anything through standard media channels (Radio/TV) and it is already in place.... You keep fixating that I care! 🙂 What is it that you want from me? Panic? Anxiety attacks? An admission that this is a catastrophe? What? All I care about is this being made into a mountain from the proverbial molehill! You started this thread with claims that all those selling on ebay, vinted etc would be hit with this because no one will know, despite posts by other members to the contrary. Then you claimed those of us selling or part exing a gun would fall foul of this also. Ridiculous! Then none of us would be able to own anything, and then built a scenario of panic based on this and now can’t understand why we don’t all want to join in! 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 @Scully just let them keep shortening the chains then - that seems to be your view - as long as it doesn’t affect you - but you will turn that round to me being on about traders that are avoiding paying tax! I do see this as the starting steps towards a future where it may end up at the examples I gave however my immediate concern is the affect it will have on ordinary people who are selling their old stuff (that may not be that old) through various channels and the government extending their reach even farther into our lives and our wallets/bank accounts - shortening everyone’s chain a little bit more But I feel we are just playing tennis - you have your rose tinted glasses - and I have my tin foil! PS I was not fixating on you - just responding to your responses as you do on a forum and a thread that I started - indeed it feels like you have insinuated a few things about me that I have not taken any offence to. Also it is you that keeps on coming back🤷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 20 minutes ago, discobob said: @Scully just let them keep shortening the chains then - that seems to be your view - as long as it doesn’t affect you - but you will turn that round to me being on about traders that are avoiding paying tax! I do see this as the starting steps towards a future where it may end up at the examples I gave however my immediate concern is the affect it will have on ordinary people who are selling their old stuff (that may not be that old) through various channels and the government extending their reach even farther into our lives and our wallets/bank accounts - shortening everyone’s chain a little bit more But I feel we are just playing tennis - you have your rose tinted glasses - and I have my tin foil! PS I was not fixating on you - just responding to your responses as you do on a forum and a thread that I started - indeed it feels like you have insinuated a few things about me that I have not taken any offence to. Also it is you that keeps on coming back🤷 Whatever. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 (edited) Money saving expert Martin Lewis states this....... Which somewhat contradicts some thoughts and opinions on here 🤭🙂 Edited January 5 by JKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Once again; the principle of this is nothing new. The concern is how HMRC will choose to implement this. They do not have a good record of appropriate, proportionate responses to new directives, especially those as a result of international agreements/EU legislation. 'Gold plating' and 'strict enforcement' spring to mind. It will also likely result in those who've spent all their life being PAYE, never had any interaction with HMRC, suddenly having to do a tax return. That's going to be a shock to the system for many. The optics are also completely tone-deaf to the current electoral climate, inflation is still stubbornly going nowhere, and HMRC are hounding ebay sellers and Etsy vendors not making a living out of it. The more you try to push back against the black economy, the more you encourage it. This is basic stuff, but seems everyone from Jeremy Hunt on down hasn't grasped this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 I knew a man, a very wealthy man, who's proudest boast was that he had never paid a penny tax in his life. When asked why he would say they had never written to him so he saw no reason to write to them. I think part of his 'success ' was because he had never had a job that was PAYE since leaving school so never created a paper trail. He died a couple of years ago from throat cancer. I have wondered since how his executors got on with sorting out his estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 Just to pop this that has appeared- other unforetold consequences - this is a partnership who wants to trade on eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Oh no, people being forced to pay tax on their incomes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 The recent budget further Increasing tax for all and in particular pensioners is a concern. The first parliament in modern history to see a fall in living standards with disposable income to fall by 0.9%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 22 minutes ago, oowee said: The recent budget further Increasing tax for all and in particular pensioners is a concern. The first parliament in modern history to see a fall in living standards with disposable income to fall by 0.9%. Not really surprising, given Covid and Ukraine. Other Western European economies performing even worse. Can you honestly believe that Labour would have delivered even that result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, oowee said: The recent budget further Increasing tax for all and in particular pensioners is a concern. The first parliament in modern history to see a fall in living standards with disposable income to fall by 0.9%. Yep, just received my new tax code showing the small increase in my state pension, I also have some income from a private pension which takes me over my tax free amount, so it looks like I will now be liable for tax, which will punch a hole in any state pension increase, give with one hand and take with the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Oh no, people being forced to pay tax on their incomes? They are fully legal - had a major issue proving they were with eBay- now imagine trying to prove you are not a business to HMRC when all you done was you had a house clearance!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 38 minutes ago, discobob said: They are fully legal - had a major issue proving they were with eBay- now imagine trying to prove you are not a business to HMRC when all you done was you had a house clearance!! It all depends on how many house clearances you have had, over what period. If you make a habit of clearing houses, you may be rated as "trading". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 2 minutes ago, amateur said: It all depends on how many house clearances you have had, over what period. If you make a habit of clearing houses, you may be rated as "trading". 30 or more items a year OR have total earnings over the equivalent of £1,770 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, old'un said: Yep, just received my new tax code showing the small increase in my state pension, I also have some income from a private pension which takes me over my tax free amount, so it looks like I will now be liable for tax, which will punch a hole in any state pension increase, give with one hand and take with the other. Won't your tax free amount still remain tax free and you'll only be taxed at the lower rate on money over the threshold. So you'll still be better off. Not as much as you'd like but still better off. How much more are you getting tax free and how much will you be paying (presumably) 20% on, without wanting to pry, dont say if you don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 14 minutes ago, discobob said: 30 or more items a year OR have total earnings over the equivalent of £1,770 If you look at the HMRC guidance, the key thing is "badges of trade" and, if you are trading, whether your profits are over £1000 per annum. A competent Chartered Accountant would sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 22 minutes ago, amateur said: A competent Chartered Accountant would sort it. And how much would that cost?? What I pasted above was from eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 It has always been the case that for some people doing 'financial transactions', a degree of record keeping and understanding of the rules is needed to ensure that you remain on the right side of the law. Just as when driving, where you need to understand the 'rules of the road' and have in place suitable licenses, permissions, insurance as applicable to what you are doing - when buying and selling you also need to understand the 'rules'. The tax system has been so much 'fiddled', and 'avoided', by so many that HMRC are trying to up their game in making sure those who should pay .... do pay. The fallout from this is that those who are genuinely not liable for tax may have to keep sufficient records to be able to demonstrate that. When I ran a shoot business some years ago, we registered as a business, registered for VAT, had proper accounts prepared and it was "a business". Depending on how good your own book keeping was, the accountants will need a few hours to translate your books into the correct 'formal accounts' as needed. Some shoots that used various 'dodgy techniques' and operated as a 'non business' to avoid tax and VAT etc. got into trouble, because when investigated it clearly was a business. Everyone needs to understand the rules. If you don't need to pay tax on your activities, but you are doing a level of selling that might be around of above the figures given above, it would be a good plan to be able to explain that and have suitable 'records' to show that. IF you had to employ an accountant, it would certainly be 'a few hours', and I guess most will charge around £100 - 150 an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, amateur said: Not really surprising, given Covid and Ukraine. Other Western European economies performing even worse. Can you honestly believe that Labour would have delivered even that result. What's Labour got to do with anything? Our economy is on it's knees and taxes have never been so high. That alone would be OK but our services are decimated. Life expectancy is decreasing. Surprisingly education is doing well which is hard to believe given the decline in productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, oowee said: What's Labour got to do with anything? ....... If you really want to see an economy on its (no apostrophe) knees, just elect Labour. Their record for screwing everything up far exceeds anything that this government has done. 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: It has always been the case that for some people doing 'financial transactions', a degree of record keeping and understanding of the rules is needed to ensure that you remain on the right side of the law. Just as when driving, where you need to understand the 'rules of the road' and have in place suitable licenses, permissions, insurance as applicable to what you are doing - when buying and selling you also need to understand the 'rules'. The tax system has been so much 'fiddled', and 'avoided', by so many that HMRC are trying to up their game in making sure those who should pay .... do pay. The fallout from this is that those who are genuinely not liable for tax may have to keep sufficient records to be able to demonstrate that. When I ran a shoot business some years ago, we registered as a business, registered for VAT, had proper accounts prepared and it was "a business". Depending on how good your own book keeping was, the accountants will need a few hours to translate your books into the correct 'formal accounts' as needed. Some shoots that used various 'dodgy techniques' and operated as a 'non business' to avoid tax and VAT etc. got into trouble, because when investigated it clearly was a business. Everyone needs to understand the rules. If you don't need to pay tax on your activities, but you are doing a level of selling that might be around of above the figures given above, it would be a good plan to be able to explain that and have suitable 'records' to show that. IF you had to employ an accountant, it would certainly be 'a few hours', and I guess most will charge around £100 - 150 an hour. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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