Is this Legal? RFD

[nabbers]

When you have a gun for sale, is it legal for a RFD who wants to purchase your shotgun to instruct Parcel Force / Royal Mail to collect weapon from you at your home, send you a copy of their RFD certificate and wire you the funds?

 

[Scully]

That’s a good question! Have never heard of it done like that before; usually done via RFD to RFD. 🤷‍♂️

[Zoli 12 guage]

17 minutes ago, nabbers said:

When you have a gun for sale, is it legal for a RFD who wants to purchase your shotgun to instruct Parcel Force / Royal Mail to collect weapon from you at your home, send you a copy of their RFD certificate and wire you the funds?

 

AFAIK the "said" courier has to be licensed to carry firearms that's how  RFD's get their stock and send guns away for repair/inspection etc.

 

Edited March 1 by Zoli 12 guage

[nabbers]

3 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

AFAIK the "said" courier has to be licensed to carry firearms that's how  RFD's get their stock and send guns away for repair/inspection etc.

 

Presumably because normally the people at the other end are also RFD licensed?

 

 

[nabbers]

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

That’s a good question! Have never heard of it done like that before; usually done via RFD to RFD. 🤷‍♂️

My local RFD wanted £60 for sending the weapon, including packaging.    

Receiving RFD states he could send Royal Mail with a label to avoid this cost, I pack gun hand it to Postie.  "Write Strictly Addresse Only" and "don't add any indication there is a shotgun in the box".

[scarecrow243]

NO ITS ILEGAL  here is the information from parcel force  

Carriage of firearms 

A service for Section 1 and 2 firearms and low-powered airguns (as defined by the Firearms Act 1968, as amended), imitation firearms, de-activated guns, antique firearms, paintball guns and inert projectiles (not prohibited by s5 of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended) is available to contract customers only, at the absolute discretion of Parcelforce Worldwide, and is subject to Parcelforce Worldwide providing prior written agreement in advance. Where Parcelforce Worldwide provide concurrence to sending firearms, it is subject to a number of conditions

which include:

• Collections and deliveries of section 1 and 2 firearms will only be accepted where it can be shown to Parcelforce Worldwide’s satisfaction that both the sender and the recipient are Registered Firearms Dealers.

[Scully]

43 minutes ago, nabbers said:

My local RFD wanted £60 for sending the weapon, including packaging.    

Receiving RFD states he could send Royal Mail with a label to avoid this cost, I pack gun hand it to Postie.  "Write Strictly Addresse Only" and "don't add any indication there is a shotgun in the box".

Most I’ve been charged was 50 quid, most are around the 35 mark. 
It may be cheaper to deliver it to the buying RFD yourself, dependant on where they are? 🤷‍♂️

[nabbers]

19 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

NO ITS ILEGAL  here is the information from parcel force  

Carriage of firearms 

A service for Section 1 and 2 firearms and low-powered airguns (as defined by the Firearms Act 1968, as amended), imitation firearms, de-activated guns, antique firearms, paintball guns and inert projectiles (not prohibited by s5 of the Firearms Act 1968 as amended) is available to contract customers only, at the absolute discretion of Parcelforce Worldwide, and is subject to Parcelforce Worldwide providing prior written agreement in advance. Where Parcelforce Worldwide provide concurrence to sending firearms, it is subject to a number of conditions

which include:

• Collections and deliveries of section 1 and 2 firearms will only be accepted where it can be shown to Parcelforce Worldwide’s satisfaction that both the sender and the recipient are Registered Firearms Dealers.

Just to be devils advocate,  that is Pacel Force's policy?    Not the actual legislation.  However the receiving RFD seems to be flouting those rules asI  am not a RFD, which sends alarm signals, is he using an  ordinary Parcel Force collection service? 

Do we know the Legislation on the matter?

[Gunman]

1 hour ago, nabbers said:

When you have a gun for sale, is it legal for a RFD who wants to purchase your shotgun to instruct Parcel Force / Royal Mail to collect weapon from you at your home, send you a copy of their RFD certificate and wire you the funds?

 

Not saying this is the case but I would check out the RFD to make sure he is legitimate .There are a few  " part time working from home " RFD's who dont always follow the letter of the law . 

[nabbers]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

Most I’ve been charged was 50 quid, most are around the 35 mark. 
It may be cheaper to deliver it to the buying RFD yourself, dependant on where they are? 🤷‍♂️

Not viable and yes £60 is extortionate.   But more interested in whether this method proposed by this RFD is legal or my licence is at risk by following his instructions? 

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, nabbers said:

Not viable and yes £60 is extortionate.   But more interested in whether this method proposed by this RFD is legal or my licence is at risk by following his instructions? 

Follow rule one 

if it doesn’t feel right (it doesn’t as your asking the question) 

DON’T do it 

just my thoughts 

of 

[scarecrow243]

if you send it without using an rfd you will loose your certificate and maybe find

[HantsRob]

39 minutes ago, nabbers said:

Just to be devils advocate,  that is Pacel Force's policy?    Not the actual legislation.  However the receiving RFD seems to be flouting those rules asI  am not a RFD, which sends alarm signals, is he using an  ordinary Parcel Force collection service? 

Do we know the Legislation on the matter?

Business and other transactions with firearms and ammunition.

3(1)A person commits an offence if, by way of trade or business, he—

(a)manufactures, sells, transfers, repairs, tests or proves any firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or a shot gun; [F1or] F2. . .

(b)exposes for sale or transfer, or has in his possession for sale, transfer, repair, test or proof any such firearm or ammunition, or a shot gun, [F3[F4or]

(c)[F5sells or transfers an air weapon, exposes such a weapon for sale or transfer or has such a weapon in his possession for sale or transfer,]]

without being registered under this Act as a firearms dealer.

With regards to the courier side, you are looking at section 5 specifically. 

You would need an exemption under 5 (3(a))

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/5

[Newbie to this]

55 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Follow rule one 

if it doesn’t feel right (it doesn’t as your asking the question) 

DON’T do it 

just my thoughts 

of 

^^^This, the fact that they are telling you not to tell the courier/carrier what is in the package rings alarm bells. If it was legitimate, surely the courier/carrier should know what they are carrying, with a paper trail for the complete transaction. 

Steer well clear of this.

Edited March 1 by Newbie to this

[rbrowning2]

I think I would bring the parcelforce policy to the attention of the RFD and see what they say, obviously they are trying to save you paying for the transfer. 

which include:

• Collections and deliveries of section 1 and 2 firearms will only be accepted where it can be shown to Parcelforce Worldwide’s satisfaction that both the sender and the recipient are Registered Firearms Dealers.

[steve_b_wales]

3 hours ago, nabbers said:

When you have a gun for sale, is it legal for a RFD who wants to purchase your shotgun to instruct Parcel Force / Royal Mail to collect weapon from you at your home, send you a copy of their RFD certificate and wire you the funds?

 

Parcel Force 48 can only deliver air rifles. 

[nabbers]

Thanks for the advice everyone. 

[holloway]

6 hours ago, nabbers said:

When you have a gun for sale, is it legal for a RFD who wants to purchase your shotgun to instruct Parcel Force / Royal Mail to collect weapon from you at your home, send you a copy of their RFD certificate and wire you the funds?

 

I would suggest that the Rfd in question knows full well that this is wrong it should be Rfd to Rfd ,he is asking you to do something illegal .

[Johnny English]

Golden rule, never hand your weapon to anyone without checking they have the relevant certificate to possess such a weapon.

[Fil]

As an "RFD" I know that Parcelforce has an agreement with the GTA (Gun Trade Association) and trade members of BASC to carry (at a discounted price) section 1 and 2 firearms from RFD to RFD. As a GTA member I had a circular email from them reminding us all that the Parcelforce agreement is RFD to RFD ONLY. So I would say that it is against the "rules". It is worth noting that Parcelforce will ONLY carry firearms if you are a trade member of BASC or the GTA. Although I see someone found some info that they will carry if proof is given that both are rfd.

Royal Mail will not (knowingly) carry firearms. I personally would not deal with that RFD. That just wrong.  As Gunman said, they maybe a part timer home rfd and not all follow the rules just to save a few quid. Which in turn puts us all in a bad light. Not saying home rfd's are bad, I was one when I first started out on my own 25 years ago. I would dearly love to know who they are.