Fellside Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 I think we are crediting Mr and Mrs general public with too much awareness of game shooting. Not many (not even most politicians or directors of DEFRA) will know the differences between big scale commercial shoots and the smaller farm syndicates - which are more accessible to the average wage earner. I think the main challenge we face is in convincing the public, that there is a net conservation gain via shooting. Even the RSPB have reluctantly admitted this recently, but for some reason this has not been fully capitalised by the orgs in PR term - in needs to be. We are all acutely aware of the habitat preservation and biodiversity gains etc, but the average person in the street believes these can only be gained via designated nature reserves…..?! In short, shooting’s PR needs to emphasise that: a) the great majority of people who shoot are ordinary working folk - not titled estate owners. b) the biodiversity benefits from game habitat management are enormous. Only when these aspects of perceived class-war and conservation are addressed will we make any significant gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: A rather harsh and inaccurate statement. Yes, perhaps - and @Konorhas my unreserved apologies if he chooses to accept them. No good is achived by falling out with people on the Internet. Lots of heat, and very little to show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 4 hours ago, PeterHenry said: As far as I can see, your view boils down to the fact you would rather others sport was curtailed more severely, so that you are not inconvenienced yourself. An I appreciate what you are saying and I understand my views won't be shared by many shooters but that is my honest opinion. I see it more as me losing out in order to protect commercial shoots and BASC having a greater interest in those shoots than the grass roots end of shooting I participate in. If politics didn't cloud the issues they would be a lot clearer and if you could trust everyone clearer still. As it stands I'm fighting for my corner of the shooting spectrum because I see little sign of the shooting organisations supporting my budget end shooting 2 hours ago, PeterHenry said: Yes, perhaps - and @Konorhas my unreserved apologies if he chooses to accept them. No good is achived by falling out with people on the Internet. Lots of heat, and very little to show for it. No apology required I prefer honest opinions and I had no intention of going in a huff about it. Contrary opinions make you think a bit more and we can all benefit from that 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 17 Author Report Share Posted April 17 The following webpages may be of interest in relation to recent discussion about game shooting. https://basc.org.uk/self-regulation/ "BASC considers self-regulation a cornerstone of our commitment to upholding the highest standards in UK shooting". "While the concept of self-regulation may sound contemporary, it has been an integral part of BASC and the wider shooting sector for decades". https://www.gwct.org.uk/blogs/news/2024/april/could-your-shoot-be-a-purdey-awards-winner/ "The key to success is to be a well run enterprise, complying with both the letter and the spirit of the Code of Good Shooting Practice, and delivering a demonstrable conservation benefit in the process. Having a good public profile and active involvement in and with the local community is also an advantage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Quote In short, shooting’s PR needs to emphasise that: a) the great majority of people who shoot are ordinary working folk - not titled estate owners. b) the biodiversity benefits from game habitat management are enormous. Only when these aspects of perceived class-war and conservation are addressed will we make any significant gains. Fellside - on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 50 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: The following webpages may be of interest in relation to recent discussion about game shooting. https://basc.org.uk/self-regulation/ "BASC considers self-regulation a cornerstone of our commitment to upholding the highest standards in UK shooting". "While the concept of self-regulation may sound contemporary, it has been an integral part of BASC and the wider shooting sector for decades". https://www.gwct.org.uk/blogs/news/2024/april/could-your-shoot-be-a-purdey-awards-winner/ "The key to success is to be a well run enterprise, complying with both the letter and the spirit of the Code of Good Shooting Practice, and delivering a demonstrable conservation benefit in the process. Having a good public profile and active involvement in and with the local community is also an advantage". Surely the code of good shooting practice should in part say don’t shoot more game than you can easily dispose of on the day and have a good outlet for any surplus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 17 Author Report Share Posted April 17 25 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Surely the code of good shooting practice should in part say don’t shoot more game than you can easily dispose of on the day and have a good outlet for any surplus Absolutely. The code states: "Shoot managers must ensure they have appropriate arrangements in place for the sale or consumption of the anticipated bag in advance of all shoot days". Here is a video about the code: Here is the code in writing: https://www.codeofgoodshootingpractice.org.uk/pdf/COGSP.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 2 hours ago, Konor said: I appreciate what you are saying and I understand my views won't be shared by many shooters but that is my honest opinion. I see it more as me losing out in order to protect commercial shoots and BASC having a greater interest in those shoots than the grass roots end of shooting I participate in. If politics didn't cloud the issues they would be a lot clearer and if you could trust everyone clearer still. As it stands I'm fighting for my corner of the shooting spectrum because I see little sign of the shooting organisations supporting my budget end shooting No apology required I prefer honest opinions and I had no intention of going in a huff about it. Contrary opinions make you think a bit more and we can all benefit from that 👍 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 IF basic were to spend a tenth of their time standing up for shooting and combating the rules and hoops that the police have installed that are decimating the numbers of shooters. Basic have no power to do anything. Some examples, The hunting ban. How many tens of thousands marched in London.. did it do any good ,,,, Nahh. Dsc. Basic were in the forefront of pushing the need for dsc training. Did anyone need this before. Nahh. And doctors certificates. Basic would even organise a random doctor to write up a report. Most doctors do not know anything about the patient because they have never treated them. All they can do is to look at the records on file. And the latest thing is that the opinion of your partner will be sought as to whether you may have a weapon. Basic is like a parasite of fifth columnists inside of the shooting community killing by a thousand cuts. No time for them at all. Prove me wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 17 Author Report Share Posted April 17 8 minutes ago, Minky said: IF basic were to spend a tenth of their time standing up for shooting and combating the rules and hoops that the police have installed that are decimating the numbers of shooters. Basic have no power to do anything. Some examples, The hunting ban. How many tens of thousands marched in London.. did it do any good ,,,, Nahh. Dsc. Basic were in the forefront of pushing the need for dsc training. Did anyone need this before. Nahh. And doctors certificates. Basic would even organise a random doctor to write up a report. Most doctors do not know anything about the patient because they have never treated them. All they can do is to look at the records on file. And the latest thing is that the opinion of your partner will be sought as to whether you may have a weapon. Basic is like a parasite of fifth columnists inside of the shooting community killing by a thousand cuts. No time for them at all. Prove me wrong . I appreciate you have a low opinion of BASC and I don't think anything I write will change your view, so I am not going to try to 'prove you wrong'. That said, I would be interested in your opinion of which shooting organisation you think is doing the best job of standing up for shooting in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Why would you be interested in my opinion.? I am a single individual so my opinion counts for nothing as did the thousands who took the time, trouble and expense to travel to London to show and demonstrate our number against the proposals. It's like time lag of certificate renewals and the issue of section 7s running into years. The rifle club that I shoot with put in a renewal and a year later the certificate hadn't been renewed. When asked about when the certificate was going to be issued because the club needed to buy ammunition. The response was...Well you have personal certificates. You'll have to use them to buy ammunition. Its stuff like this that shows how insignificant basic is and why basic consistency gets stick on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 17 Author Report Share Posted April 17 34 minutes ago, Minky said: Why would you be interested in my opinion.? I am a single individual so my opinion counts for nothing as did the thousands who took the time, trouble and expense to travel to London to show and demonstrate our number against the proposals. It's like time lag of certificate renewals and the issue of section 7s running into years. The rifle club that I shoot with put in a renewal and a year later the certificate hadn't been renewed. When asked about when the certificate was going to be issued because the club needed to buy ammunition. The response was...Well you have personal certificates. You'll have to use them to buy ammunition. Its stuff like this that shows how insignificant basic is and why basic consistency gets stick on the forums. I am interested in your opinion because you took the time to comment in the thread that I started. As regards the countryside march, I recall BASC securing an exemption for terrier work below ground called the 'gamekeeper exemption' for the 2004 Hunting Act. More recently, BASC lobbied hard during the drafting of the Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Act 2023 and a licensing scheme is in place for some forms of fox and rabbit control with dogs. In Northern Ireland we have pushed back several times against proposals to introduce restrictions on hunting with dogs. With the Assembly back in functioning mode its only a matter of time before proposals arise again and BASC will be there fighting for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 7 hours ago, Fellside said: I think we are crediting Mr and Mrs general public with too much awareness of game shooting. Not many (not even most politicians or directors of DEFRA) will know the differences between big scale commercial shoots and the smaller farm syndicates - which are more accessible to the average wage earner. I think the main challenge we face is in convincing the public, that there is a net conservation gain via shooting. Even the RSPB have reluctantly admitted this recently, but for some reason this has not been fully capitalised by the orgs in PR term - in needs to be. We are all acutely aware of the habitat preservation and biodiversity gains etc, but the average person in the street believes these can only be gained via designated nature reserves…..?! In short, shooting’s PR needs to emphasise that: a) the great majority of people who shoot are ordinary working folk - not titled estate owners. b) the biodiversity benefits from game habitat management are enormous. Only when these aspects of perceived class-war and conservation are addressed will we make any significant gains. Well put 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Absolutely. The code states: "Shoot managers must ensure they have appropriate arrangements in place for the sale or consumption of the anticipated bag in advance of all shoot days". Here is a video about the code: Here is the code in writing: https://www.codeofgoodshootingpractice.org.uk/pdf/COGSP.pdf No problem getting rid of it then without wasting it how much more has been sold by the shoots that opted for voluntary transition away from lead and has it affected the market price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 46 minutes ago, Old farrier said: how much more has been sold by the shoots that opted for voluntary transition away from lead and has it affected the market price? I shoot, beat and drill game crops on 24 shoots around us and NONE have moved to non toxic and don't intend to, we have 2 days on one commercial shoot were the game dealer takes a very small amount of duck and the venison but is not interested in pheasant and partridge even if shot with non toxic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 26 minutes ago, 8 shot said: I shoot, beat and drill game crops on 24 shoots around us and NONE have moved to non toxic and don't intend to, we have 2 days on one commercial shoot were the game dealer takes a very small amount of duck and the venison but is not interested in pheasant and partridge even if shot with non toxic so do you know where the Pheasant and Partridge bag ends up ? 2 hours ago, Minky said: Why would you be interested in my opinion.? I am a single individual so my opinion counts for nothing as did the thousands who took the time, trouble and expense to travel to London to show and demonstrate our number against the proposals. It's like time lag of certificate renewals and the issue of section 7s running into years. The rifle club that I shoot with put in a renewal and a year later the certificate hadn't been renewed. When asked about when the certificate was going to be issued because the club needed to buy ammunition. The response was...Well you have personal certificates. You'll have to use them to buy ammunition. Its stuff like this that shows how insignificant basic is and why basic consistency gets stick on the forums. Is your rifle club affiliated to Basc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Quote how much more has been sold by the shoots that opted for voluntary transition away from lead and has it affected the market price? Funnily enough, I think the answer is that no data is available. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 2 minutes ago, holloway said: so do you know where the Pheasant and Partridge bag ends up Yes all processed in house mostly breasted at least 4 breasts to a tray but some whole birds trayed and wrapped and the guns take as many as they want, the rest given away as the farm sell home grown beef, lamb and christmas turkeys and geese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Just now, 8 shot said: Yes all processed in house mostly breasted at least 4 breasts to a tray but some whole birds trayed and wrapped and the guns take as many as they want, the rest given away as the farm sell home grown beef, lamb and christmas turkeys and geese. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted April 17 Report Share Posted April 17 Just as an aside we have pheasant one a week either in a casserole or roast, probarbly eat more than I shoot. But not sure I'd pay for it if it wasn't free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 7 hours ago, 8 shot said: Just as an aside we have pheasant one a week either in a casserole or roast, probarbly eat more than I shoot. But not sure I'd pay for it if it wasn't free I have always wondered just what percentage of commercial shot game is fit for sale ,what with the average consumer looking for packaged perfection in their purchases.I imagine that if a survey was done it would be alarmingly small. My own bag is used whatever state its in ,badly shot badly bruised whatever it all goes in the pot but if someone else shot it i certainly wouldn't spend money on it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, holloway said: I have always wondered just what percentage of commercial shot game is fit for sale ,what with the average consumer looking for packaged perfection in their purchases.I imagine that if a survey was done it would be alarmingly small. My own bag is used whatever state its in ,badly shot badly bruised whatever it all goes in the pot but if someone else shot it i certainly wouldn't spend money on it . There’s quite a difference in game shot with lead compared to steel like you I eat all my bag and probably someone else’s also find homes for many more birds 9 hours ago, Gordon R said: Funnily enough, I think the answer is that no data is available. 🙂 I’m very inclined to agree 🙄 however we all know that the profit is in the bag not the game meat on a big commercial shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted April 18 Author Report Share Posted April 18 13 hours ago, Old farrier said: No problem getting rid of it then without wasting it how much more has been sold by the shoots that opted for voluntary transition away from lead and has it affected the market price? I don't know but I will ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 I usually mark my birds by removing one leg and make sure my share of the bag includes those birds that way I don't end up with birds shot too close or with heavily choked guns at closer than optimal range. Cooking the bag is a big part of shooting for me. When on invite to a larger shoot I took away around 40 birds each time I went. Very little were badly damaged just the odd one or two. The drives presented the birds at height so on average 3 bits of shot per breast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 18 Report Share Posted April 18 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Konor said: When on invite to a larger shoot I took away around 40 birds each time I went I thought you were against the larger bag shoots? Edited April 18 by London Best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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