Reform Uk

[12gauge82]

Johnphilip/Mungler 

You have both made some very good points and persuasive arguments that I find hard to disagree with. 

I still think Reform are already being attacked by MSM desperately trying to tie them to the far right, I believe it would be very self destructive to tie themselves to someone they've already identified as being far right. 

As for TR, much of what he says comes across as reasonable in the context of the absaloute disgrace thats been uncovered. I do hold suspicions due to his almost obsession with certain subjects that also predated the Rotherham scandal and his previous links with the national front. 

[Mungler]

47 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Johnphilip/Mungler 

You have both made some very good points and persuasive arguments that I find hard to disagree with. 

I still think Reform are already being attacked by MSM desperately trying to tie them to the far right, I believe it would be very self destructive to tie themselves to someone they've already identified as being far right. 

As for TR, much of what he says comes across as reasonable in the context of the absaloute disgrace thats been uncovered. I do hold suspicions due to his almost obsession with certain subjects that also predated the Rotherham scandal and his previous links with the national front. 

We are frogs in a frying pan. We’ve had 25 years of slow cooking and rather than say or do anything it’s easier to shrug shoulders and just be grateful ‘it’s not me and it’s not my neighbourhood’ and look the other way. 

The backdrop is 25 years of uni party and any (and I mean any) objection, questioning or even a request for a discussion about mass immigration or failed integration resulted in the racist card coming out.

Heaven help you if you dared to suggest immigrants / dual nationals be deported upon committing a serious crime (and what would be the point with the ECHR sitting in the background? ‘I’m a child rapist, you can’t deport me to my country of origin because I will face harsh treatment’ or ‘I have a wife and kids here and a right to a family life here’ etc). 

The Pakistani child rape gang scandal is one aspect and there needs to be a public enquiry to understand what was known, when, who in public office looked the other way and why. Public servants need to be held to account. We also need to know why previous investigations, enquiries and recommendations have been wholesale ignored and not implemented - they are demonstrably just more of the same talking shop nonsense with a written conclusion of amorphous lessons being learned. 

Then there needs to be a proper look at other truly bizarre events eg the Bately Grammar school teacher, the Wakefield school boy who dropped ‘that book’ and what the police did / didn’t do next (and on whose instruction and why) etc.

However, as said, both of the leading political parties are complicit in this and up to their ears in culpability. Then there is the whole of the indoctrinated public sector machinery wrapped up in immovable left wing ideology - the education system, social services, police high command, local authorities etc. 

Will anything change? I doubt it. We’ll get mugged off with more of the same.

 

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

you can’t deport me to my country of origin because I will face harsh treatment’

Which might say something about the about the treatment here (clue - not nearly 'harsh' enough for serious offences).

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Britain, a soft touch, send your problems here, we collect them.    

[Penelope]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The problem for reform is if they endorse TR they will loose huge support from the centre. 

I'm suspicious of TR myself and put simply, there's no reason for reform to have anything to do with TR. Reform need to be squeaky clean with regards anyone precieved to be connected to the far right. 

This. Which is put better than I did. 

Have you watched 'Silence' and the Jordon Peterson interviews with TR?

Changed my opinion markedly.

[Penelope]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

So, as far as I can remember, TR was one of the first, if not the first, to put the balloon up about Pakistani child rape gangs. The Times had some early reporting (Norfolk) but it got buried deep, went nowhere and nothing but nothing happened.

TR’s reporting / coverage has gone global and attracted attention of Musk, Peterson etc. and it’s Musk’s involvement now which is the only reason the lid is coming off the Pakistani child rape gang pot.

Indeed, looking around the world, everyone but us in the UK is astonished at what has happened and what is happening now. Objectively, how is Naz Shah famous for her ‘accidental’ retweet of Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity.” still in any public office? How? How are the colleagues and party supporters of Naz Shah still in ‘public service’? What alternative reality have we come to accept?

TR is currently incarcerated in solitary confinement for pleading guilty to breaching a civil injunction (at the intervention of the Attorney General, a political appointee) and stemming from TR’s documentary which sought to expose the failings of an earlier set of civil proceedings and which ultimately resulted in his personal bankruptcy?

Any cursory inspection of the sentencing of TR shows a two tier approach - pick up  any news paper and find me a non violent civil offender getting banged up in a maximum security prison and in solitary. Absolute worst case it should have been open prison and a tag.

TR was hoping for some ‘nod’ of support from Reform that he is being persecuted for political reasons but got nothing. Reform need the centre voters and don’t know how to handle TR - any nod of support or sympathy and they’re back to being the party of far right crackpots.

All the while, MSM still focus on and play the man (TR) and not the ball - it’s a lovely huge distraction from wholly labour councils and 14 years of conservative rule coming under the microscope. Indeed both conservative and labour parties are up to their ears in this - if anyone wanted evidence of ‘uni-party’ this is it.

Back to MSM, every time TR gets a mention his real name and his criminal record gets rolled out verbatim. The detail of the ‘criminal record’ is interesting in its insignificance - I’ve seen plenty of people get into hot water for ambitious self cert mortgages and for helping friends out with an enthusiastic financial reference / statement of earnings none of which ended up with criminal proceedings, tax investigations, bankruptcy and so on. 

As for Musk; I quite like the chap. He doesn’t get it right all the time but he carries with him an enormous spotlight.

👍

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Then there needs to be a proper look at other truly bizarre events eg the Bately Grammar school teacher,

Still in hiding I believe, poor sod.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Then there is the whole of the indoctrinated public sector machinery wrapped up in immovable left wing ideology - the education system, social services, police high command, local authorities etc. 

The left have played the long game and infiltrated ALL, even in the corporate world.

[ShootingEgg]

12 hours ago, welsh1 said:

A by election cannot be called simply because people vote for it there have to be other factors.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05089/

Well that sucks 😂 

[johnphilip]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Have you watched 'Silence' and the Jordon Peterson interviews with TR?

Changed my opinion markedly.

1000 %  agree with. You. I have followed Jordon Peterson a while a very bright. Articulate person. Who had to fight. His. Way with the university  he taught. At.  Nearly broke. Him , I just sit listening  to him and wish I could. Words things. Like he can .

The word. :  " far right "  was. Created  by the media. , not. By. Those in power , those that. Try to govern us. The authorities  never even classed EDL. As far. Right. Just the Media try to cause  hate. There was some real nasty. Folks. Who did. Try to become members . I belive at this point. Tommy. Left and did want to be part of that any  longer.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Penelope said:

Have you watched 'Silence' and the Jordon Peterson interviews with TR?

Changed my opinion markedly.

 

This is it.

The key is to focus on the content, not the presenter; or perhaps rather the message and not the messenger.

I am not advocating for TR, but my nose tells me there are significant issues which he has brought to the attention of the general public at significant personal cost and which now cannot be ignored.

 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

1000 %  agree with. You. I have followed Jordon Peterson a while a very bright. Articulate person. Who had to fight. His. Way with the university  he taught. At.  Nearly broke. Him , I just sit listening  to him and wish I could. Words things. Like he can .

The word. :  " far right "  was. Created  by the media. , not. By. Those in power , those that. Try to govern us. The authorities  never even classed EDL. As far. Right. Just the Media try to cause  hate. There was some real nasty. Folks. Who did. Try to become members . I belive at this point. Tommy. Left and did want to be part of that any  longer.

 

Love him or hate him, Jordan Peterson is the embodiment of common sense. There's not a huge amount which he says that most can or will disagree with.

As for "far right". Like "racist" the term has lost all meaning.

And only today Starmer has claimed that anyone calling for a public inquiry is part of a far right band wagon. Another distractive attempt at playing the man and not the ball. Words fail me. Indeed, unpacking that claim is a truly frightening insight into the workings of his mind and his disconnection from the real world and now commonly held opinions and concerns of average decent people.

 

[Penelope]

21 minutes ago, Mungler said:

And only today Starmer has claimed that anyone calling for a public inquiry is part of a far right band wagon. Another distractive attempt at playing the man and not the ball. Words fail me. Indeed, unpacking that claim is a truly frightening insight into the workings of his mind and his disconnection from the real world and now commonly held opinions and concerns of average decent people.

 

I think he'll rue the day he opened his gob with that comment (hopefully).

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Penelope said:

Have you watched 'Silence' and the Jordon Peterson interviews with TR?

Changed my opinion markedly.

No I haven't. I don't see TR as relevant in the drastic changes that are needed in this country. Whether it's because he is a racist trying to appeal to the masses or an innocent man fitted up by the establishment is irrelevant in the context of getting the UK back on track. Reform and their fresh ideas on how to do things are already radical enough for some without attaching themselves to someone with the baggage TR has surrounding them. 

24 minutes ago, Penelope said:

I think he'll rue the day he opened his gob with that comment (hopefully).

Totally agreed, it comes across as someone trying to desperately cover their tracks and I think the public will see straight through it. 

[Raja Clavata]

21 hours ago, Penelope said:

All good thanks.

Fishing has been out of the window since the beginning of November.

Been out since July for me based on a shoulder op but in truth I wasn’t into this year. Plan to get back on track this year. Guys are still catching, who knows it might fish right through.

Back on topic, I assume you’re aware of the MAGA infighting, Musk saying he’s gonna tweak the X algorithms and Bannon saying that goes against free speech.

On the topic of X, Musk is increasingly looking like chief troll with his own platform, I’m not sure how anyone thinks that’s a good idea in the big scheme of things.

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

Love him or hate him, Jordan Peterson is the embodiment of common sense. There's not a huge amount which he says that most can or will disagree with.

Agreed. A very very gifted individual.

He’s a bit right for my liking but that doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge his work and the brilliance of his mind. Currently reading one of his books.

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here but apparently Musk became aware of TR through the JPB interviews. That might well be all he knows about him 🤷‍♂️

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

No I haven't. I don't see TR as relevant in the drastic changes that are needed in this country. Whether it's because he is a racist trying to appeal to the masses or an innocent man fitted up by the establishment is irrelevant in the context of getting the UK back on track. Reform and their fresh ideas on how to do things are already radical enough for some without attaching themselves to someone with the baggage TR has surrounding them. 

Totally agreed, it comes across as someone trying to desperately cover their tracks and I think the public will see straight through it. 

Try and keep an open mind.

Hold your nose and watch ‘Silenced’ or even the Jordan Peterson interview. 

 

[Gordon R]

Whilst I have questioned Tommy Robinson's motives, is there anyone who says he is lying? As Mungler has said - Robinson has highlighted issues which most politicians want to keep hidden.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Try and keep an open mind.

Hold your nose and watch ‘Silenced’ or even the Jordan Peterson interview. 

 

This.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Whilst I have questioned Tommy Robinson's motives, is there anyone who says he is lying? As Mungler has said - Robinson has highlighted issues which most politicians want to keep hidden.

On the rape gangs no. I think anyone ignoring what's been highlighted, regardless of the source will very likely find themselves on the wrong side of history if they do. Frankly the victims of which have been silenced, ignored and without a voice for far too long. The fact that happened in today's age, just like the post office scandal makes you wonder what else is being covered up. 

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

Try and keep an open mind.

Hold your nose and watch ‘Silenced’ or even the Jordan Peterson interview. 

 

I always do 👍

[johnphilip]

Nigel , Nigel  you are making  yourself look stupid .

Now accusing Tommy of violence of women. Not proven. I said he should have  not mentioned anything about Tommy. He will loose even more support now 

 

 

[welsh1]

Who would want tommy or whatever he is calling himself in their party the man is a liability to anyone who works with him, and he may not of hit his wife but he has convictions for plenty of other stuff, he is nothing but a semi clever thug getting people to support his lifestyle.he has been convicted of numerous assaults.

• Andrew McMaster
• Paul Harris
• Wayne King
• Stephen Lennon

In April 2005 at Luton Crown Court, Robinson was convicted of assault occasioning actual bodily harm and assault with intent to resist arrest against an off-duty police officer in July 2004. The officer had intervened in an argument in the street between Robinson and his then girlfriend, Jenna Vowles. In the struggle that followed, Robinson kicked the officer in the head as he lay on the ground. Robinson received sentences of 12 months and 3 months, which were served concurrently.^[140]

In September 2011, at Preston Magistrates' Court, Robinson was convicted of assault for headbutting a man in Blackburn on 2 April 2011.^[141][35] In November 2011, he was given a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months.^[142]

Public order offence

In July 2011, at Luton and South Bedfordshire Magistrates' Court, Robinson was convicted of using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour, for leading a group of Luton Town F.C. supporters into a brawl involving 100 people in Luton on 24 August 2010. He was sentenced to a 12-month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours of unpaid work and given a three-year football banning order.^[29][143]

Use of false passport

In October 2012, Robinson was arrested and held on the charge of having entered the United States illegally. He had used a passport in the name of Andrew McMaster to board a Virgin Atlantic flight from London Heathrow to New York City.^[13] He had been banned from entering the US due to his criminal record. Upon arriving at John F. Kennedy International Airport, US Customs and Border Protection officials took his fingerprints, and discovered he was not McMaster. After being asked to attend a second interview, he left the airport, entering the US illegally in the process. He stayed one night and returned to the UK the following day using his own passport.

Robinson pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court after using a passport that did not belong to him to travel to the United States in September 2012. He was subsequently sentenced in January 2013 to 10 months' imprisonment.^{[13][144][145]} Judge Alistair McCreath told him: "What you did went absolutely to the heart of the immigration controls that the United States are entitled to have. It's not in any sense trivial."^[13] He was released on an electronic tag on 22 February 2013.^[146]

Via his mother, an Irish immigrant to Britain, Robinson reportedly qualifies for an Irish passport as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. In August 2024, three Irish TDs asked their government to investigate the validity of his Irish passport after it emerged he had given his place of birth as "Ireland".^[147]

Mortgage fraud

In November 2012, Robinson was charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by misrepresentation in relation to a mortgage application, along with five other defendants.^[148] He pleaded guilty to two charges and in January 2014 was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.^[149][145]

Robinson's fraud amounted to £160,000 over a period of six months. Judge Andrew Bright described him as the "instigator, if not the architect" of a series of frauds totalling £640,000. "This was an operation which was fraudulent from the outset and involved a significant amount of forward planning." He described Robinson as a "fixer" who had introduced others to fraudulent mortgage broker Deborah Rothschild. Rothschild had assisted some defendants by providing fake pay slips and income details.^[138]

Stalking

Sometime after 10 p.m. on 17 January 2021, Robinson went to the home of journalist Lizzie Dearden after she had asked for his comment for a story she was writing about allegations that he had misused financial donations from his supporters. He falsely accused her partner of being a paedophile and threatened to return every night. He was arrested over the incident, and further published photographs of the journalist's partner on his Telegram channel stating that "serious allegations" had been made about the partner. It was alleged he threatened the couple in an attempt to prevent the article from being published. Dearden's article was published on 18 March 2021.^[156] On 19 March, Robinson was issued with an interim stalking ban order.^[157][158]

On 13 October 2021, Robinson was convicted at Westminster Magistrates' Court of stalking the couple, and was given a five-year ban from contacting them or referring to them.^[159][160] On 19 October 2023, he lost his appeal against the stalking ban order, having admitted that the allegations he made about Dearden's partner were false.^[161]

 

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Who would want tommy or whatever he is calling himself in their party the man is a liability

This /\

If a party was happy to have him in it's 'team', it is not the party for me.

As I understand the rules, as a convicted offender sentenced to more than 12 months, he cannot stand as a candidate for an MP anyway.  (I think there is a time limit of the disqualification time, so he may be able to stand at some future election, but not at present).

[Mungler]

21 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Who would want tommy or whatever he is calling himself in their party the man is a liability to anyone who works with him, and he may not of hit his wife but he has convictions for plenty of other stuff, he is nothing but a semi clever thug getting people to support his lifestyle.he has been convicted of numerous assaults.

• Andrew McMaster
• Paul Harris
• Wayne King
• Stephen Lennon

In April 2005 at Luton Crown Court, Robinson was convicted of assault occasioning actual bodily harm and assault with intent to resist arrest against an off-duty police officer in July 2004. The officer had intervened in an argument in the street between Robinson and his then girlfriend, Jenna Vowles. In the struggle that followed, Robinson kicked the officer in the head as he lay on the ground. Robinson received sentences of 12 months and 3 months, which were served concurrently.^[140]

In September 2011, at Preston Magistrates' Court, Robinson was convicted of assault for headbutting a man in Blackburn on 2 April 2011.^[141][35] In November 2011, he was given a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months.^[142]

Public order offence

In July 2011, at Luton and South Bedfordshire Magistrates' Court, Robinson was convicted of using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour, for leading a group of Luton Town F.C. supporters into a brawl involving 100 people in Luton on 24 August 2010. He was sentenced to a 12-month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours of unpaid work and given a three-year football banning order.^[29][143]

Use of false passport

In October 2012, Robinson was arrested and held on the charge of having entered the United States illegally. He had used a passport in the name of Andrew McMaster to board a Virgin Atlantic flight from London Heathrow to New York City.^[13] He had been banned from entering the US due to his criminal record. Upon arriving at John F. Kennedy International Airport, US Customs and Border Protection officials took his fingerprints, and discovered he was not McMaster. After being asked to attend a second interview, he left the airport, entering the US illegally in the process. He stayed one night and returned to the UK the following day using his own passport.

Robinson pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court after using a passport that did not belong to him to travel to the United States in September 2012. He was subsequently sentenced in January 2013 to 10 months' imprisonment.^{[13][144][145]} Judge Alistair McCreath told him: "What you did went absolutely to the heart of the immigration controls that the United States are entitled to have. It's not in any sense trivial."^[13] He was released on an electronic tag on 22 February 2013.^[146]

Via his mother, an Irish immigrant to Britain, Robinson reportedly qualifies for an Irish passport as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. In August 2024, three Irish TDs asked their government to investigate the validity of his Irish passport after it emerged he had given his place of birth as "Ireland".^[147]

Mortgage fraud

In November 2012, Robinson was charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by misrepresentation in relation to a mortgage application, along with five other defendants.^[148] He pleaded guilty to two charges and in January 2014 was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.^[149][145]

Robinson's fraud amounted to £160,000 over a period of six months. Judge Andrew Bright described him as the "instigator, if not the architect" of a series of frauds totalling £640,000. "This was an operation which was fraudulent from the outset and involved a significant amount of forward planning." He described Robinson as a "fixer" who had introduced others to fraudulent mortgage broker Deborah Rothschild. Rothschild had assisted some defendants by providing fake pay slips and income details.^[138]

Stalking

Sometime after 10 p.m. on 17 January 2021, Robinson went to the home of journalist Lizzie Dearden after she had asked for his comment for a story she was writing about allegations that he had misused financial donations from his supporters. He falsely accused her partner of being a paedophile and threatened to return every night. He was arrested over the incident, and further published photographs of the journalist's partner on his Telegram channel stating that "serious allegations" had been made about the partner. It was alleged he threatened the couple in an attempt to prevent the article from being published. Dearden's article was published on 18 March 2021.^[156] On 19 March, Robinson was issued with an interim stalking ban order.^[157][158]

On 13 October 2021, Robinson was convicted at Westminster Magistrates' Court of stalking the couple, and was given a five-year ban from contacting them or referring to them.^[159][160] On 19 October 2023, he lost his appeal against the stalking ban order, having admitted that the allegations he made about Dearden's partner were false.^[161]

 

Not to be too dismissive but having read that list, the only one moving my needle is from 20 years ago. 

Trying to get into the states (with any criminal conviction he wouldn’t have got a visa in his name), mortgage fraud with no financial loss to any of the lending institutions, stalking - well the detail of that answers that one 😆

All of that said - is any of his content factually incorrect? Ignore who he is, his past and what his motivation or reward may or may not be, let me have the list of ‘porkies’.

 

14 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

This /\

If a party was happy to have him in it's 'team', it is not the party for me.

As I understand the rules, as a convicted offender sentenced to more than 12 months, he cannot stand as a candidate for an MP anyway.  (I think there is a time limit of the disqualification time, so he may be able to stand at some future election, but not at present).

No party will have him. It’s a non starter and a blind alley line of discussion / enquiry. 

[welsh1]

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

Not to be too dismissive but having read that list, the only one moving my needle is from 20 years ago. 

Trying to get into the states (with any criminal conviction he wouldn’t have got a visa in his name), mortgage fraud with no financial loss to any of the lending institutions, stalking - well the detail of that answers that one 😆

All of that said - is any of his content factually incorrect? Ignore who he is, his past and what his motivation or reward may or may not be, let me have the list of ‘porkies’.

 

How can you ignore someones past when it shows a pattern of fraud ,deceit and thuggery.a member of the BNP  and EDL and also set up Pegida uk, he is a major liability to anyone politically associated with him.

There is no escaping his past, and lets face it he appears to still be on the side where he chosses to ignore the law, hence why he is in prison.

A thug and conman living off the donations of others, and a putin supporter for good measure.

[12gauge82]

39 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

]

Use of false passport

In October 2012, Robinson was arrested and held on the charge of having entered the United States illegally. He had used a passport in the name of Andrew McMaster to board a Virgin Atlantic flight from London Heathrow to New York City.^[13] He had been banned from entering the US due to his criminal record. Upon arriving at John F. Kennedy International Airport, US Customs and Border Protection officials took his fingerprints, and discovered he was not McMaster. After being asked to attend a second interview, he left the airport, entering the US illegally in the process. He stayed one night and returned to the UK the following day using his own passport.

Robinson pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court after using a passport that did not belong to him to travel to the United States in September 2012. He was subsequently sentenced in January 2013 to 10 months' imprisonment.^{[13][144][145]} Judge Alistair McCreath told him: "What you did went absolutely to the heart of the immigration controls that the United States are entitled to have. It's not in any sense trivial."^[13] He was released on an electronic tag on 22 February 2013.^[146]

Via his mother, an Irish immigrant to Britain, Robinson reportedly qualifies for an Irish passport as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. In August 2024, three Irish TDs asked their government to investigate the validity of his Irish passport after it emerged he had given his place of birth as "Ireland".^[147]

 

I totally agree with your post but thought I'd highlight this bit. 

The utter hypocricy of 10months for illegal entry and a bleating from the judge about the heart of immigration controls when we're allowing terrorists and criminals into our country and rather than prosecution, we're paying them to stay all inclusive. 😂