2%inflation??

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Brexit = additional inflation. 

 

In the short to medium term and I didn't expect anything less. If we had a government with a bit of vision, ambition and drive, they could change the economy into a high pay, high skill economy. Instead, labour seem intent on creating big government, big taxes, low wage, long hours work economy, which will only worsen what's already happened the last few decades. 

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes, it was greatly abused.

Because the sections of the civil service charged with administering it didn't do their jobs.  They were too busy 'working from home' - which in itself is another nail in the coffin of productivity.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

In the short to medium term and I didn't expect anything less. If we had a government with a bit of vision, ambition and drive, they could change the economy into a high pay, high skill economy. Instead, labour seem intent on creating big government, big taxes, low wage, long hours work economy, which will only worsen what's already happened the last few decades. 

This we need. 

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

 Instead, labour seem intent on creating big government, big taxes, low wage, long hours work economy, which will only worsen what's already happened the last few decades. 

Services fit for purpose can only come from growth. The last govt brought economic decline and eye watering taxes. It will take time to turn around the tanker. Growth in Europe and a new relationship will help. 

[old man]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Yes, I agree.  But we need a system that rewards hard work and success, not penalises it by higher taxes starting at quite moderate levels.

For example, basic rate of tax (say 20% tax) say to £50K, basic+ rate of tax from maybe £50K to 75K (say 25% tax),  upper rate of tax £75K to 150K (say 40%), and top rate say above £150K (say 50%).

People on relatively 'basic' salaries need to see that although they may pay a little more tax as they move up the ladder, it will be progressive and not a step change.

Agreed as long as everyone in the system is judged fairly? It's not good to rate some of the more lowly skilled as low as they are now? 

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, old man said:

Agreed as long as everyone in the system is judged fairly? It's not good to rate some of the more lowly skilled as low as they are now? 

Where will we get the extra cash from? 

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Yes, I agree.  But we need a system that rewards hard work and success, not penalises it by higher taxes starting at quite moderate levels.

For example, basic rate of tax (say 20% tax) say to £50K, basic+ rate of tax from maybe £50K to 75K (say 25% tax),  upper rate of tax £75K to 150K (say 40%), and top rate say above £150K (say 50%).

People on relatively 'basic' salaries need to see that although they may pay a little more tax as they move up the ladder, it will be progressive and not a step change.

 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, old man said:

everyone in the system is judged fairly? It's not good to rate some of the more lowly skilled as low as they are now?

The tax thresholds and tax rates would of course be universal (i.e. whole population).  As to the rewards by means of rises in salary based on performance/achievement, that would be down to individual employers - and as always - if you don't agree - you can always move jobs.  It isn't possible to define a way of rating skills that applies universally as it is more a matter of being good at what you are employed to do, whether a bricklayer, JCB driver, office worker, shop assistant, HGV driver - whatever.

[old man]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Where will we get the extra cash from? 

Therein lies the stumbling post?

Having given everything away in the way it was done sealed the decline as all control was given too?

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

The tax thresholds and tax rates would of course be universal (i.e. whole population).  As to the rewards by means of rises in salary based on performance/achievement, that would be down to individual employers - and as always - if you don't agree - you can always move jobs.  It isn't possible to define a way of rating skills that applies universally as it is more a matter of being good at what you are employed to do, whether a bricklayer, JCB driver, office worker, shop assistant, HGV driver - whatever.

Mm, when the streets are full of rats and garbage, fairly unpleasant sliding to environmental hazard?

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

This we need. 

Services fit for purpose can only come from growth. The last govt brought economic decline and eye watering taxes. It will take time to turn around the tanker. Growth in Europe and a new relationship will help. 

Agreed, the Conservatives have been terrible for the UK. 

[Raja Clavata]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

They were too busy 'working from home' - which in itself is another nail in the coffin of productivity.

Isn’t that a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Isn’t that a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

There are 510,000 civil servants, so generalisations are necessary.

When the civil service has grown from 385,000 to 510,000 in 6 years - you have to ask just what the hell are they all doing?  Is it any wonder there is no money?  There has been little other growth - but massive growth in the number of civil servants - paid out of taxpayers funds.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/civil-service-staff-numbers

As to how well it works working from home ....... https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/work-from-home-civil-servants-dylan-jones-b1124567.html

 

[Raja Clavata]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

There are 510,000 civil servants, so generalisations are necessary.

When the civil service has grown from 385,000 to 510,000 in 6 years - you have to ask just what the hell are they all doing?  Is it any wonder there is no money?  There has been little other growth - but massive growth in the number of civil servants - paid out of taxpayers funds.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/civil-service-staff-numbers

As to how well it works working from home ....... https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/work-from-home-civil-servants-dylan-jones-b1124567.html

 

Unfortunately the bloat seems, at least in my experience, to be aligned with the same in corporate circles. I work in a company with 350,000+ employees globally providing IT and engineering services across just about all industries. I observed recently in the U.K. operation that for every “doer” we have four chasers/managers/whatevers. This drives the need for huge margins in the people who are “billable” or direct revenue generating and that cost is of course ultimately passed onto consumers.

TBH it does feel worse in the U.K. than other geographies (I have a global role and most of the work I oversee is in Europe and North America).

But my query related more to the notion of working from home being inefficient, I guess it depends on context and scope of the work.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Unfortunately the bloat seems, at least in my experience, to be aligned with the same in corporate circles. I work in a company with 350,000+ employees globally providing IT and engineering services across just about all industries. I observed recently in the U.K. operation that for every “doer” we have four chasers/managers/whatevers. This drives the need for huge margins in the people who are “billable” or direct revenue generating and that cost is of course ultimately passed onto consumers.

TBH it does feel worse in the U.K. than other geographies (I have a global role and most of the work I oversee is in Europe and North America).

But my query related more to the notion of working from home being inefficient, I guess it depends on context and scope of the work.

I agree the 'bloat' is wider than the civil service - but the UK working population is around 33 million, so roughly 1 in every 65 is a civil servant.  The overall 'public sector' is around 1 in 20.   https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/db36/pse

The key to making 'the books balance' is to increase national productivity, and with such a vast civil service, it isn't a good start.

"UK plc" desperately needs more earning and less administering, bean counting, etc.  and cutting red tape, bureaucracy, and overheads is at the heart of that.

[oowee]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I agree the 'bloat' is wider than the civil service - but the UK working population is around 33 million, so roughly 1 in every 65 is a civil servant.  The overall 'public sector' is around 1 in 20.   https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/db36/pse

The key to making 'the books balance' is to increase national productivity, and with such a vast civil service, it isn't a good start.

"UK plc" desperately needs more earning and less administering, bean counting, etc.  and cutting red tape, bureaucracy, and overheads is at the heart of that.

I think you may be looking through the wrong end of the lens. There has been a very significant increase in bureaucracy following our decision to leave Europe. Now we need that bureaucracy to enable more efficient trade.

It would be a very brave govt that proposed a second referendum to review the decision despite the catastrophic impact on trade. Unfortunately a free market relies upon bureaucracy to protect the public from the the excesses of the free market. The country was let down by politicians that sought to exploit the vulnerability of the public for their own reasons. 

We should be focused on investing in skills and providing the business environment for growth. Reducing standards will result in increasing economic decline by moving towards a cost based, rather than knowledge based output's. 

[JohnfromUK]

41 minutes ago, oowee said:

Reducing standards will result in increasing economic decline by moving towards a cost based, rather than knowledge based output's. 

Reducing red tape, bureaucracy does not mean reducing standards.

[McSpredder]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I observed recently in the U.K. operation that for every “doer” we have four chasers/managers/whatevers. This drives the need for huge margins in the people who are “billable” or direct revenue generating and that cost is of course ultimately passed onto consumers.

A colleague where I used to work said we were "over-managed and under-led".   That was more than 20 years ago.   Plus ça change.

[Doormat]

20 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

And that is also bang on the money. 

For years think tanks have analysed to death why UK productivity is so low, without ever reaching a definitive answer. I don't believe there's any riddle to solve, it appears obvious that on one side, the UK has wrapped itself up in red tape and bureaucracy and on the other, the UK workforce is so cheesed off with their quality of life, the jobs market (low wage, low skill labour, thanks to years of EU membership), no hope of doing better and constantly constrained and criticised by government for factors having nothing to do with them, it's really not surprising we have a clock in, clock out workforce, utterly unmotivated to be dynamic and do better. 

Wow, that is so true. 
I thought I was alone thinking the exact same. Although work is now dropping off, they still want us to do OT - they won’t replace workers that leave.

since labour won, I’ve refused all OT, I hate labour and have no intention of paying more tax  for them to squander. It’s a matter of principles, not so much need. 🖕em’

Edited August 16 by Doormat

[JohnfromUK]

On 15/08/2024 at 12:22, JohnfromUK said:

They were too busy 'working from home'

A new article highlighting how many Civil Servants in London still don't attend "the office"; only 17% attending in some locations.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13751745/How-17-cent-civil-servants-turn-office-day-Whitehall-departments.html

[TIGHTCHOKE]

That's absolutely shocking, how can that be justified?

[iHOWEY]

We got our house insurance renewal through the door yesterday, 30% increase over last year. I honestly think inflation numbers are plucked out of thin air just to make the normal working folk think there are gaining something they aren’t. I can guarantee nothing I have both in the last year has only risen by a few percent, yet I have to fight tooth and nail every year for a payrise to keep in track with how their supposed inflation has risen. 

[Vince Green]

On 14/08/2024 at 15:27, TOPGUN749 said:

Where do these experts get their inflation figures from? Had my car insurance renewal today,they asked for 67% more than a year ago! Haggled them down to 31%,but 4 times my pension increase of £17 a week!

True inflation must still be averaging 10% surely?

That's not inflation its the effect electric cars are having on claims.

Even a very minor bump in an electric car will result in the car being written off for scrap. Any possibility that the battery is damaged or 'compromised ' and its not repaired.

We are all sharing the cost even if we don't drive an electric car

[old man]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That's absolutely shocking, how can that be justified?

Out of sight out of mind?

Lower office cost.

 

 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That's absolutely shocking, how can that be justified?

I have to be careful what I say because a close member of my family works from home for the NHS. He walks the dog, takes the kids to school, picks up a bit of shopping etc during his working day. He would not survive now if he had to go into the office.  The point is, he is not pulling a fast one, his boss knows what he is doing and probably does the same. Its euphamistically called work life balance.

That's not what I would call it

Edited August 17 by Vince Green

[TOPGUN749]

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

A new article highlighting how many Civil Servants in London still don't attend "the office"; only 17% attending in some locations.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13751745/How-17-cent-civil-servants-turn-office-day-Whitehall-departments.html

A friend of mine,a medical secretary for the nhs,still works from home 2 days a week,and when I visited she spent almost all day painting her fence and occasionally looking at her laptop! If covid is over,or did it ever exist? Then everyone should be back to normal long ago.It’s one big skive!

[oldypigeonpopper]

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

A new article highlighting how many Civil Servants in London still don't attend "the office"; only 17% attending in some locations.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13751745/How-17-cent-civil-servants-turn-office-day-Whitehall-departments.html

Hello, There must be a lot of empty Government buildings 🤔

[Penelope]

On 17/08/2024 at 10:22, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, There must be a lot of empty Government buildings 🤔

There are lots of empty or half empty buildings.

The trains on the commute into London are empty on Mondays and Fridays.