Keir Starmer in Berlin to "reset" Brexit

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

For me, I have seen no real world benefit of Brexit yet, other than feeling I live in a semi sovereign nation again, rather than being dictated to from unelected foreign powers. I believe the reason we haven't seen huge fundamental benefits, is because we've had no huge fundamental changes, due to the huge numbers of remainers in parliament who, like on the issue of immigration have gone against the will of the country and done all they can to keep it like we've never left, hence keeping much of what was bad to be a EU member, while not seeing any real benefit. 

Negatives are the same, I've seen no real world negatives from Brexit other than filling a few extra forms in for dogs I don't have passports for when I travel abroad. 

To sum it up, no change either way. 

Agreed.  Despite what Johnson said - Brexit was never actually 'done' ........ in that on our side - little or nothing has actually changed.  Now the opportunity has been lost as Starmer will ensure that whilst we might not 'rejoin' in name, we will continue to suffer most of the EU dictates and policies.

[Vince Green]

It's the old straight bananas argument. The EU meddled in everything, even things that didn't matter.

It worked reasonably well until 2004 but then it showed it's true colours.

The Euro has been an absolute disaster for many of the countries that have it. They were talking about forcing us to join.

[12gauge82]

26 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Agreed.  Despite what Johnson said - Brexit was never actually 'done' ........ in that on our side - little or nothing has actually changed.  Now the opportunity has been lost as Starmer will ensure that whilst we might not 'rejoin' in name, we will continue to suffer most of the EU dictates and policies.

Agreed. I gave labour a clean sheet when they got in, despite the fact I didn't vote for them. So far to say they haven't impressed me is a serious understatement. 

[Raja Clavata]

14 hours ago, old man said:

Surely you appreciate the benefit of having such brilliant, caring, honest politicians directly in charge of your well-being and future? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

😂😂😂😂

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

it’s generally accepted that corporately our careers have been hindered through Brexit.

...

it makes it really quite a challenge for a straight white middle aged British male to get on whilst based in the UK, even in a global role.

Being a self-employed contractor, career progression is now a thing that happens to other people.  Amongst my colleagues who are employees for our big corporate client, I’ve not noticed the British ones particularly suffering, but then people tend to move teams globally.  Having a citizenship of an EU member state, might be useful for moving within the EU, but that is only a small part of its global operations.

What I have noticed is that some roles have been offered with a choice of being either London or Rotterdam based.  Guess which is the more popular choice, especially for those with families?  When discussing this choice with a colleague, Brexit didn’t come up once.  Crime, education and a safer space to raise your kids did.

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

What about you personally then, do you feel you’ve gained from Brexit?

@12gauge82 hit the nail on the head.

Here's a thing though; Both the EU and UK REACH are looking to ban lead in ammunition.  The UK process involves consultation, before they follow and go further than the EU make their mind up.  EU Reach will be subject to lobbying from FACE amongst others and may find the decision kicked into the long grass.

Which model of bureaucratic interference do we prefer?

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting choice of best bit from the article, I’d pick “… without it Britain will be condemned to permanent stagnation…”

The topic of EU failure was discussed extensively on this forum previously and questions related to impact to UK under both the in and out scenarios were never discussed in detail. 

What I do find fascinating is the rabid anti-EU at all costs minority that don’t seem to get the fact that a failed EU has a significant impact on us regardless.

The writing is on the wall. The European project will be over in 10 years. By being on the outside with our own currency we stand a better chance than most of weathering it provided we find sensible leadership. The vortex and vacuum will however be off the chart.

All the predictors for best growth and outlook are for the pacific rim and south / North America. Europe is done - bloated, inflexible and over regulated and being drained. This is where I find history and geography fascinating.

Venezuela should be the richest country on the planet if it could try anything but rabid socialism. Argentina was once wealthy - having wandered through old town Buenos Aires the smell of once was old money is overwhelming - again, if they can achieve sensible political stability that country will be on the up. 

Britain had its day with the Industrial Revolution  and its down hill out now. France has a beyond bloated public sector and the state spends too much money - add in political turmoil and stagnation and it’s a pack of cards waiting to go. 

Germany is the big one. Talk of closing car plants for the first time since the war and the rise of a generation sick of mass immigration. Germany has the best track record for kicking wars off and I reckon they’ve got it in them for another go before this century is out 😆

The best bit of course will be all the remainer tears as the EU exposes itself as not being the much vaunted land of milk and honey. 

 

Edited September 3 by Mungler

[Raja Clavata]

50 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The writing is on the wall. The European project will be over in 10 years. By being on the outside with our own currency we stand a better chance than most of weathering it provided we find sensible leadership. The vortex and vacuum will however be off the chart.

All the predictors for best growth and outlook are for the pacific rim and south / North America. Europe is done - bloated, inflexible and over regulated and being drained. This is where I find history and geography fascinating.

Venezuela should be the richest country on the planet if it could try anything but rabid socialism. Argentina was once wealthy - having wandered through old town Buenos Aires the smell of once was old money is overwhelming - again, if they can achieve sensible political stability that country will be on the up. 

Britain had its day with the Industrial Revolution  and its down hill out now. France has a beyond bloated public sector and the state spends too much money - add in political turmoil and stagnation and it’s a pack of cards waiting to go. 

Germany is the big one. Talk of closing car plants for the first time since the war and the rise of a generation sick of mass immigration. Germany has the best track record for kicking wars off and I reckon they’ve got it in them for another go before this century is out 😆

The best bit of course will be all the remainer tears as the EU exposes itself as not being the much vaunted land of milk and honey. 

 

With respect, you recently accused me of word soup. And rushing. 😆

[Mungler]

15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

With respect, you recently accused me of word soup. And rushing. 😆

Tenner says the EU as we know it implodes within the next decade or becomes an EU the average remainer won’t want to rejoin - it’s all Jack boots and red drapes from here on in 😆😆

Edited September 3 by Mungler

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Thankfully we never went down the Euro currency line.

[Raja Clavata]

46 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Tenner says the EU as we know it implodes within the next decade or becomes an EU the average remainer won’t want to rejoin - it’s all Jack boots and red drapes from here on in 😆😆

Not interested Mungler-damus 😂

PS no such thing as an average Remainer, we’re all quite exceptional and as you’ve said yourself, higher level opinions (knowledge) 😝

[Mungler]

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

PS no such thing as an average Remainer, we’re all quite exceptional and as you’ve said yourself, higher level opinions (knowledge) 😝

So you may very well wish to think.

I’m waiting for Europe to lurch to the right. I’m ordering a new black Hugo Boss suit and will then happily lead the re-join campaign as all the remoaners flip flop over to pro-Brexit.

It going to be a lot of fun once Labour have their go with the socialist wrecking Ball, reform merges the conservatives and Nigel becomes PM on a landslide as the country sinks under  +5 million net immigrants over the next 5 years and everyone realises that you can’t run a country according to gospel Gary Lineker.

Edited September 3 by Mungler

[Raja Clavata]

16 minutes ago, Mungler said:

So you may very well wish to think.

I’m waiting for Europe to lurch to the right. I’m ordering a new black Hugo Boss suit and will then happily lead the re-join campaign as all the remoaners flip flop over to pro-Brexit.

It going to be a lot of fun once Labour have their go with the socialist wrecking Ball, reform merges the conservatives and Nigel becomes PM on a landslide as the country sinks under  +5 million net immigrants over the next 5 years and everyone realises that you can’t run a country according to gospel Gary Lineker.

If this is the edited version I dread to think how bad the original read😂

 

[Mungler]

If this is even half true it’s flippin hilarious 

 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Blimey, wouldn't that be quite astonishing if true............................

[ditchman]

On 03/09/2024 at 20:41, Mungler said:

So you may very well wish to think.

I’m waiting for Europe to lurch to the right. I’m ordering a new black Hugo Boss suit and will then happily lead the re-join campaign as all the remoaners flip flop over to pro-Brexit.

It going to be a lot of fun once Labour have their go with the socialist wrecking Ball, reform merges the conservatives and Nigel becomes PM on a landslide as the country sinks under  +5 million net immigrants over the next 5 years and everyone realises that you can’t run a country according to gospel Gary Lineker.

someone told me Hugo-Boss is a very popular aftershave in Israel............how does that work eh ?....forgive and forget ?

[Penelope]

16 hours ago, Mungler said:

If this is even half true it’s flippin hilarious 

 

 

Appears to be.

A genuine consideration or the German government trying to counter the mass rise in AFD support?

[Mungler]

12 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Appears to be.

A genuine consideration or the German government trying to counter the mass rise in AFD support?

It would be delicious.

Wonder how they will deal with their hand wringers and the ECHR - no doubt the will pull the age old mainland European trick of pleasing themselves and two fingering the rules.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

It would be delicious.

Wonder how they will deal with their hand wringers and the ECHR - no doubt the will pull the age old mainland European trick of pleasing themselves and two fingering the rules.

I wonder if Olaf and 2TK, discussed this recently.

[Raja Clavata]

It would be good to see one of our closest partners make use of the UK taxpayer money squandered by the previous government on Rwanda.

On paper, Germany and other EU partners taking illegal immigrants out of the system before they get anywhere near Calais would be good for us but I fear in reality any immigrants expressing intent to enter the UK will be allowed to continue on their way. Given the scale of the issue across our continent you can’t really blame the Germans if that is the position they take. 

[Mungler]

48 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It would be good to see one of our closest partners make use of the UK taxpayer money squandered by the previous government on Rwanda.

How did we ‘squander’ that money if it can be used to full advantage by others with an equivalent scheme and objective? What’s the differential?

Was that same opportunity not available to us until pointlessly torpedo’d by Starmer? Indeed, if the Germans are seriously looking at it as a viable option then do you accept it as a possible viable option?

[Raja Clavata]

51 minutes ago, Mungler said:

How did we ‘squander’ that money if it can be used to full advantage by others with an equivalent scheme and objective? What’s the differential?

Was that same opportunity not available to us until pointlessly torpedo’d by Starmer? Indeed, if the Germans are seriously looking at it as a viable option then do you accept it as a possible viable option?

My assumption is that if the Germans get this agreed then they won’t be paying us to recover our sunk costs. Happy to be wrong though?

If the Germans are serious about it and get it through then, regardless of its rights or wrongs, it just reinforces what a SoS our lot were/are.

Didn’t Starmer effectively coup de grace it, it’d hardly flown under the previous government?

Are the Germans seriously looking at it? Either way I’d reserve judgement on its viability pending more information. I assume  elements of the previous government and their legal teams viewed it as viable.

Whilst my humanistic views have eroded over time, regardless of legal and/or operational viability of the concept, the notion of sending people to a country we’ve previously given people from that country asylum to does not sit well with me.

[Luckyshot]

The Rwanda scheme was only no good as the Tories thought of it, had it been labours idea no doubt it would have been brilliant.

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Luckyshot said:

The Rwanda scheme was only no good as the Tories thought of it, had it been labours idea no doubt it would have been brilliant.

You think? 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Luckyshot said:

The Rwanda scheme was only no good as the Tories thought of it, had it been labours idea no doubt it would have been brilliant.

Yes

1 hour ago, oowee said:

You think? 

Yes

But now we watch as everyone wishes the Germans all the best in adopting and implementation it. Go figure - and yet was a humanitarian unworkable Echr basket case not 10 minutes ago under the conservatives.

Its either hypocrisy or a touch of ‘slap a euro badge on it and it’s wunderbar all of a sudden’.

Rather than the Germans picking up from where the conservatives left off, maybe Labour could have picked up where the conservatives left off? That appears to make a little more sense, no?

[Penelope]

5 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Its either hypocrisy or a touch of ‘slap a euro badge on it and it’s wunderbar all of a sudden’.

A decent lashing of both.