Is it worth paying the extra for fibre wad cartridges

[Stonepark]

21 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

I bought a Webley bolt action .410 least week. These are a 2 1/2" chamber. It wouldn't eject Gamebore "Hunting" .410 (a fibre wad cartridge) which when fired stuck in the chamber. Pulled hard on the bolt and the extractor would override it every time. Tried it with Eley Trap which have a plastic wad and didn't have a problem. So I think, yes, that some brands are not suitable for some shotguns? I think that it is a problem with the "leed" and the case mouth walls of the .410" being thin and the cartridge a high pressure loading. I am imagining the fibre wad forces itself through a tight leed and as it does expands. This then grips the thin case mouth walls and takes them with it?

It sounds like a case issue, being over pressured due probably to same poor plastic as above and not returning to size, wad makes no difference.

Polish the chamber to a mirror finish would be my first step and then polish chamber with Tungsten Disulphide (WS2) to minimise drag on case.

[Old farrier]

30 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Not true! Boss shotguns were better than Purdey shotguns and Holland & Holland shotguns after the 1922 self-opener patent better than either. But neither Boss nor Holland's had a royal warrant for shotguns.

That’s why I said should be 🤔

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I wonder if Hull and the others still regard the .410" shotgun as a training aid for youngsters and just don't care?

This all day long 

a minor caliber not a good enough ££££earner 

and don’t really worry about the plastic in the countryside 

[Old farrier]

36 minutes ago, Minky said:

This is happening in other gauges also.  Last summer I went to to a simulated driven game/clays day.  During the lunch break one of the other guns said that he was loosing half of his cartridges.??  I asked if he had a hole in his cartridge bag.😆.  But what he meant was that his cases(20) gauge were melting just like these.?  I looked at my 28 Gauge cases and the same thing had happened to them.  Don't know why but the shots did as they normally would.  The cartridges fired as normal and the clays broke just the same.  I did post pictures back then.

Hence my question 

should we pay a premium for fibre wads when the plastic is obviously ending up out there 

 

[enfieldspares]

If the OP is near Leicester he is welcome to try some of my Eley, Lyalvale and Rio cartridges plus some Fiocchi (all are 2 1/2") at Normanton Shooting Ground.

[Minky]

21 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Hence my question 

should we pay a premium for fibre wads when the plastic is obviously ending up out there 

 

most of the places that I shoot have asked that only fibre is used.  Some because of stock on the fields and some because they just don't want plaswads laying on the fields for years.  I'd never seen anything like this case failure ever in years of shooting.  I don't imagine that anyone would consider half the case being ripped off or splitting.. . It must be something to do with the type of plastic and its resistance to heat, pressure and stress. load.

Edited October 2 by Minky

[Old farrier]

10 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

If the OP is near Leicester he is welcome to try some of my Eley, Lyalvale and Rio cartridges plus some Fiocchi (all are 2 1/2") at Normanton Shooting Ground.

Very kind offer many thanks sadly a little far from you 😊👍

[Fellside]

21 hours ago, Old farrier said:

May I ask the make of your 410 

I’ve tried these in a browning and a beretta with similar results 

Sorry for the late reply. Mine is a Yildiz. Mind you, I haven’t tried the Hull Pro 410 cartridges yet - just those I mentioned. 

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

Sorry for the late reply. Mine is a Yildiz. Mind you, I haven’t tried the Hull Pro 410 cartridges yet - just those I mentioned. 

Probably wise to stick with what works for you and if you’re going to try the pro 410 just buy a box to start with 

[Fellside]

24 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Probably wise to stick with what works for you and if you’re going to try the pro 410 just buy a box to start with 

Yes definitely 👍. 

[Vince Green]

On 02/10/2024 at 00:12, enfieldspares said:

I bought a Webley bolt action .410 least week. These are a 2 1/2" chamber. It wouldn't eject Gamebore "Hunting" .410 (a fibre wad cartridge) which when fired stuck in the chamber. Pulled hard on the bolt and the extractor would override it every time. Tried it with Eley Trap which have a plastic wad and didn't have a problem. So I think, yes, that some brands are not suitable for some shotguns? I think that it is a problem with the "leed" and the case mouth walls of the .410" being thin and the cartridge a high pressure loading. I am imagining the fibre wad forces itself through a tight leed and as it does expands. This then grips the thin case mouth walls and takes them with it?

My first ever gun was a Webley .410 bolt action. Back in those days the old Eley Fourlong cartridge seemed a lot milder than later .410 cartridges I bought from other sources, mostly imported Fiocchi.

Edited October 5 by Vince Green

[grahamch]

Have no choice but to use fibre for game and clays and have no issues.

[BobbyH]

I use Eley trap 2.5inch 14gram (Plaswad) in all my Webley and Scott bolt action, my hatsan field hunter pump and my Investarm 100LL.

No issues atall!

[Old farrier]

23 hours ago, BobbyH said:

I use Eley trap 2.5inch 14gram (Plaswad) in all my Webley and Scott bolt action, my hatsan field hunter pump and my Investarm 100LL.

No issues atall!

Apart from the plastic wad going into the heavens and landing somewhere 🙄

so dare I ask what you use at a fibre only clay ground 🤔

[BobbyH]

40 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Apart from the plastic wad going into the heavens and landing somewhere 🙄

so dare I ask what you use at a fibre only clay ground 🤔

For .410, I use lyalvale supreme 2.5inch.

Does fibre wads actually biodegrade? Or is it the same as plastic wads? They just sit about for millions of years?

[Old farrier]

2 hours ago, BobbyH said:

For .410, I use lyalvale supreme 2.5inch.

Does fibre wads actually biodegrade? Or is it the same as plastic wads? They just sit about for millions of years?

No idea if it degrades however I’m pretty sure the plastic ripped off the case will be there for eternity along with the plastic wads 

hence the initial question is it worth paying the premium price to save the countryside 

[Old Boggy]

I had similar with a batch of 16 bore Eley VIP game.

Correct chamber for cartridge etc so sent a sample (about a dozen) of fired cases off to Eley who responded favourably and replaced the slab via the gunshop where I bought them. They did say that they would send me a report of their findings but no report received, but I was happy enough with them replacing the slab.

OB

[London Best]

43 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

I had similar with a batch of 16 bore Eley VIP game.

Correct chamber for cartridge etc so sent a sample (about a dozen) of fired cases off to Eley who responded favourably and replaced the slab via the gunshop where I bought them. They did say that they would send me a report of their findings but no report received, but I was happy enough with them replacing the slab.

OB

Did the replacements exhibit the same problem? 
If not there was obviously something wrong with the first batch.

[Old Boggy]

48 minutes ago, London Best said:

Did the replacements exhibit the same problem? 
If not there was obviously something wrong with the first batch.

Yes they admitted something wrong with the first batch and no problems since.

[Minky]

It's got to be tied in with the tensile strength of the plastic tube because the 28G cartridges that I had this problem with were a std type of light English style fibre re- load. It was a warm day and a lot of shots in a short period but the cartridge tubes might have gotten pretty hot and soft in the chamber in between shots ... whilst waiting for the next flush of clays.  IF I had known that this was happening I would have had a quick look as they came out of the chamber.   The other bloke was just surprised that it was happening.  From this experience we find that the best action is to take no notice and carry on shooting.