Two Tier Kier setting out the pain that is coming.......................

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

What we have is a plan

What we have is a shambles to tax, borrow and spend, spend, spend.  Pouring £22b into the NHS is like shovelling banknotes into the fire to keep warm!

There's a black hole where spending exceeds income.  SO CUT SPENDING.  It really is that simple.

[Mungler]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

If they do and i doubt it, it will because despite their best efforts they could not change the trajectory of the economy etched over the last 14 years. 

You don't run a country like a business look at the States. It is possible to grow a country out of debt with investment. What we have is a plan, we just have to hope it works.

It won’t work.

You are saying there will be growth. There won’t.

I bet you £100 right here and now that there is no chance of growth. 

There is just no incentive for growth. 

Growing a public sector doesn’t work for all the obvious reasons. 

Edited October 30 by Mungler

[Smokersmith]

I think everyone agrees the country is in a state and needs rebuilding.

It’s going to cost money, and this budget could have been a lot worse. 

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It won’t work.

You are saying there will be growth. There won’t.

I bet you £100 right here and now that there is no chance of growth. 

There is just no incentive for growth. 

Growing a public sector doesn’t work for all the obvious reasons. 

According to the OBR, the UK economy is predicted to grow 2% in 2025, 1.8% in 2026, before declining to 1.5% in 2027 and 2028. For 2029, real GDP growth is expected to slightly increase to 1.6%. 

 

[Mungler]

3 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

I think everyone agrees the country is in a state and needs rebuilding.

It’s going to cost money, and this budget could have been a lot worse. 

 

When has the government built / rebuilt anything of any merit outside of the M25?

1 minute ago, oowee said:

According to the OBR, the UK economy is predicted to grow 2% in 2025, 1.8% in 2026, before declining to 1.5% in 2027 and 2028. For 2029, real GDP growth is expected to slightly increase to 1.6%. 

 

So you’ll take my bet and give me 2-1 odds then because your that confident. 

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

 

When has the government built / rebuilt anything of any merit outside of the M25?

So you’ll take my bet and give me 2-1 odds then because your that confident. 

No why would I. 

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

According to the OBR, the UK economy is predicted to grow 2% in 2025, 1.8% in 2026, before declining to 1.5% in 2027 and 2028. For 2029, real GDP growth is expected to slightly increase to 1.6%. 

According to the OBR the growth after the first year will be less than that predicted under the Tories

Edited October 30 by JohnfromUK

[Mungler]

Just now, oowee said:

No why would I. 

Because you’re wrong and you won’t put your money where your mouth is. 

But do continue telling us what a well thought out budget this is 😆

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

Because you’re wrong and you won’t put your money where your mouth is. 

But do continue telling us what a well thought out budget this is 😆

? You have lost me there. Is it my forecast? No. 

Do i have a better idea of How to forecast growth the the OBR? No.

Do i think it was a good budget? Yes. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Do i think it was a good budget? Yes. 

In fact - it's SO good - the OBR has revised the figures DOWNWARDS for 2026 onwards.  But then the OBR will know what Labour economics lead to.

It's a budget taking from long term business investment and discouraging the pension savings that fund business ......... to pour into the bottomless pit that is the NHS as 'day to day' spending.

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

? You have lost me there. Is it my forecast? No. 

Do i have a better idea of How to forecast growth the the OBR? No.

Do i think it was a good budget? Yes. 

 

The OBR has a terrible record for accurate predictions.

The only way out for the country is growth, and this budget will not deliver growth.

A terrible budget cooked up by naive public sector ideologues with no actual business sense or awareness.

If you disagree and think it’s a wonderfully well thought out budget promoting growth and the OBR agrees to boot, then I wonder why you wouldn’t bet on that? Probably a lack of confidence. 

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The OBR has a terrible record for accurate predictions.

The only way out for the country is growth, and this budget will not deliver growth.

A terrible budget cooked up by naive public sector ideologues with no actual business sense or awareness.

If you disagree and think it’s a wonderfully well thought out budget promoting growth and the OBR agrees to boot, then I wonder why you wouldn’t bet on that? Probably a lack of confidence. 

It's an unbelievable level of unavoidable borrowing. Unfortunately the debt was there even though the previous govt refused to see it.

We don't have to put money into the NHS but I would hope to at least steady the problem asset for the short term. 

There is far more to the budget than investing in the NHS. Lets hope it works. 

 

 

[amateur]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

......Lets hope it works. 

Labour always hopes that their budgets work.

History tells us that they never do.

How can they when they choke the sources of wealth and squander it?

[oowee]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

Labour always hopes that their budgets work.

History tells us that they never do.

How can they when they choke the sources of wealth and squander it?

I accept it's an uphill battle given the starting point.

Never? During Tony Blair's 10 years as Prime Minister, the UK economy grew steadily, but not spectacularly. The UK economy grew at an average of 2.3% per year from 1997 to 2010, which was the longest uninterrupted period of growth in 200 years. Some factors that contributed to this growth include

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Unfortunately the debt was there even though the previous govt refused to see it.

And what debt was inherited in 2010... Pretty sure it was far worse...

[oowee]

34 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

And what debt was inherited in 2010... Pretty sure it was far worse...

2010 11% of gdp.

2023 101% gdp.

[amateur]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

I accept it's an uphill battle given the starting point.

Never? During Tony Blair's 10 years as Prime Minister, the UK economy grew steadily, but not spectacularly. The UK economy grew at an average of 2.3% per year from 1997 to 2010, which was the longest uninterrupted period of growth in 200 years. Some factors that contributed to this growth include

Strange that.

Blair tried to take the Conservative line and still didn't succeed. Brown threw a sulk until he was given the reins, then squandered it all.

Some of us who were working in businesses at the time certainly found it as tough then as it invariably is with a Labour government.

 

[Mungler]

Farage has absolutely nailed it here.

 

 

[Weihrauch17]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

According to the OBR, the UK economy is predicted to grow 2% in 2025, 1.8% in 2026, before declining to 1.5% in 2027 and 2028. For 2029, real GDP growth is expected to slightly increase to 1.6%. 

 

The OBR couldn't predict the next day!

[old man]

On 30/10/2024 at 18:40, JohnfromUK said:

What we have is a shambles to tax, borrow and spend, spend, spend.  Pouring £22b into the NHS is like shovelling banknotes into the fire to keep warm!

There's a black hole where spending exceeds income.  SO CUT SPENDING.  It really is that simple.

Sadly, we all know the NHS is out of control? Ignoring for the moment all issues other than the way it's treated by some elderly users.  Every benefit offered is taken, often to be discarded as they just can't be bothered, thinking of claimed twin hearing aids and over prescribed drugs? Must cost millions? Both items require personal control, which is lacking?

[ShootingEgg]

22 hours ago, oowee said:

2010 11% of gdp.

2023 101% gdp.

I didn't ask for % 

But if that spins it your way then crack on.

The Tories inherited a much worse situation hense the cuts.. 

 

[armsid]

Oowee if Labour were so good at running the country then why didBrown sell our gold reserves for less than scrap value?

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, armsid said:

Oowee if Labour were so good at running the country then why didBrown sell our gold reserves for less than scrap value?

It’s because he told the market what he was going to do and when. In anticipation the market moved and the price of gold tanked when the gold sell off commenced - but that of course didn’t stop the stubborn jock from cracking on with the gold give away. Within days of the sell off concluding the gold price sprung back and hasn’t stopped rising ever since. That’s what happens when you let a history academic with zero business or real world experience become the chancellor of the exchequer.

CV
A doctoral graduate, Brown studied history at the University of Edinburgh. He spent his early career as a lecturer at a further education college and television journalist. Brown was elected to the House of Commons at the 1983 general election as the MP for Dunfermline East. He was appointed to Neil Kinnock's shadow cabinet in 1989 and was appointed Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequerby John Smith in 1992. Following Labour's victory in the 1997 general election, Brown was appointed as Chancellor.

[Mice!]

41 minutes ago, Mungler said:

That’s what happens when you let a history academic with zero business or real world experience become the chancellor of the exchequer.

Well that we can agree with,  problem is the rest are no better now, not a business PERSON  amongst them.

[12gauge82]

What an awful start. I didn't vote for them and didn't expect much, but I'd had enough of the tories and their broken promises and thought let's give Labour a clean sheet and a chance. 

So far, off the top of my head. Robbed pensioners of the winter fuel payment, party sleeze with Lord Ali and dodgy payments, two tier justice and to the best of my knowledge, the highest tax and borrowing ever. 

What an absolute train wreck. God only knows where this country will be in 5 years time. 

I read the other day that in the 90s, the UKs wealth per person was on a par with the USA. We're currently 20k pounds a year less wealthy per person. If correct that is an incredible decline and I fear for our youth who have no chance in life.