JKD Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 2 hours ago, marsh man said: You are not wasting our time or anyone's and our comments were only intended to be light hearted so please accept my apologies if you took it wrongly , a lot of your questions you can only answer yourself to do with timing and the availability of feed on the surrounding fields , by giving it a go a few times then that should answer what you need to know , keep on posting and let us know how you get on MM This,,,, 1 hour ago, Down South said: The frustration of pigeon shooting. There is no definitive answer to your question, every area is different. Let the farmer know you are available if he sees birds hitting the crops. This time of year, seeing large numbers of birds feeding does not equate to good shooting, the flocks move on and at best you can pick up a few birds that might decoy. Big bags in winter are usually due to hard weather and limited food sources. As others have said, be happy you have permission, it’s better to be out there trying than being at home watching day time tv. This,,,, 59 minutes ago, Wilts#Dave said: I think my post was fairly constructive to be honest, certainly not taking the p***. My point was and still is that sometimes there just isn’t any definitive answer, every situation is so different but broadly speaking you’ll want to be out in the morning at this time of year to stand a chance of catching the main flight/feed. And as I said, give it a go…..I’ve had many days where I’ve shot great bags from doing just that when I’ve had little choice of location and fancied getting out! And this,,,,,,, Apologies if you took my replies as "slagging you off",,,, nothing further from the truth. It's called constructive criticism, with added [emojis] humour. Go along with it,,,, give it back,,,, then get out there and try to shoot some pigeons, not to fill your freezer, but to protect crops etc ! Everybody's shooting areas are completely different, you just have to be out there and learn your grounds 👍 If you still want to leave this brilliant forum,,,, please don't let the door hit your backside on the way out 🙋♂️😆🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, Wilts#Dave said: I think my post was fairly constructive to be honest, certainly not taking the p***. My point was and still is that sometimes there just isn’t any definitive answer, every situation is so different but broadly speaking you’ll want to be out in the morning at this time of year to stand a chance of catching the main flight/feed. And as I said, give it a go…..I’ve had many days where I’ve shot great bags from doing just that when I’ve had little choice of location and fancied getting out! That make a lot of sense , the Pigeons near me start coming into the wood to roost from around 2.30pm onwards , by 4 pm, most if not all are already in the wood and beginning to digest whatever they have been eating during the day , they are then in for a very long night , they will then leave at first light and if the night have had a heavy frost then they might leave a bit later allowing for the frost to lift , if they have been in the wood since say 3pm the previous day then they haven't ate a thing for around 16 hours , so the mornings are certainly the best time and then you have got the next six hours or so before they are back in the wood to start another long ole night , then when you think we are still losing daylight for the next 6 or 7 weeks your choice of the best times are very limited and you can say the best times are in the few daylight hours . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted November 7 Author Report Share Posted November 7 1 hour ago, JKD said: This,,,, This,,,, And this,,,,,,, Apologies if you took my replies as "slagging you off",,,, nothing further from the truth. It's called constructive criticism, with added [emojis] humour. Go along with it,,,, give it back,,,, then get out there and try to shoot some pigeons, not to fill your freezer, but to protect crops etc ! Everybody's shooting areas are completely different, you just have to be out there and learn your grounds 👍 If you still want to leave this brilliant forum,,,, please don't let the door hit your backside on the way out 🙋♂️😆🤣🤣 OK, I'm sorry if my frustration got the better of me but I did not like being called a whinger when I was laying out my problems and confusion. That is not constructive criticism. I don't mind a bit of humour, insults are another thing... At least we have had some more constructive replies since my little paddy! By the way, there were next to no pigeons to be seen in the area I was watching today. Must have been a transient flock. Some on a drilling right near my house, which is unshootable - roads, houses and paddocks all round. However, some drilling has been going on nearby, on a favourite field, so I'll be watching.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 Well done think positive. Let us know how you get on. There's a lot of late drillings round here this year and still more to do. But very little rape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 5 hours ago, kitchrat said: As an addendum to my farewell post above, I have this to add: I do not have access to a huge amount of land, the area is not pigeon rich and I rarely even see the number of pigeons some of you chaps can shoot in an afternoon. Here in semi-rural Essex there are lanes, footpaths, horse paddocks and "Antis" all over the place. I have to compete with Greek cafe-owners from London who offer £100 for a days shooting. So, it is difficult. If this is whingeing, I'm sorry, but it's the facts of life. So, I have to try and think my way to some success. If it doesn't work and I got it wrong, I have asked you chaps for more "data", ie what you are finding and what you suggest. I am sorry for having been a whinger but I thought Pigeonwatch was about sharing information and advice. Clearly I was wrong and have wasted my time, and yours. So sorry, I won't do it again! Think you have answered your own question when you said, you do not have access to a huge amount of land, so if the birds are not on any of your fields it makes it more difficult to find some shootable pigeons. The area I now shoot over is nowhere near the area I used to shoot when I was younger, even then I always said that if you went out everyday of the week you would be lucky to find pigeons and shoot a decent bag on one of those days, although at certain times of the year it can be a bit different. We are now entering the lean months, no matter how much land you have to shoot over. Just keep going out and try setting up a few times on fields that does not look that promising, as Wilts#Dave said, sometimes it can turn out to be a good day, its surprising how things can change once the gun starts talking. And stop taking things to heart, have you never been in the beaters line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 shot five today this time of year it’s about keeping them of the numbers come later if plenty are on that drill shoot it with an air rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 28 minutes ago, clangerman said: shot five today this time of year it’s about keeping them of the numbers come later if plenty are on that drill shoot it with an air rifle THIS ! Shoot the field with an air rifle, then keep those birds separate in your freezer. With hardly a feather out of place, they make excellent decoys for use at a later date. I used to make 'dead bird' shell decoys during the winter months. I would make between 15 to 20 decoys for use in the spring. They worked far better than any commercially available decoys, just needing a bit of careful handling so they lasted a few years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted November 7 Author Report Share Posted November 7 49 minutes ago, old'un said: Think you have answered your own question when you said, you do not have access to a huge amount of land, so if the birds are not on any of your fields it makes it more difficult to find some shootable pigeons. The area I now shoot over is nowhere near the area I used to shoot when I was younger, even then I always said that if you went out everyday of the week you would be lucky to find pigeons and shoot a decent bag on one of those days, although at certain times of the year it can be a bit different. We are now entering the lean months, no matter how much land you have to shoot over. Just keep going out and try setting up a few times on fields that does not look that promising, as Wilts#Dave said, sometimes it can turn out to be a good day, its surprising how things can change once the gun starts talking. And stop taking things to heart, have you never been in the beaters line? Yes I beat for 4 shoots, that's how I managed to get the permissions I have. Never get any insults, just light-hearted Pee taking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinj Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 Just like on here 🙂 The truth is that some days/ weeks/ months even! you are not going to shoot enough birds to make it worth the trip. You can't shoot them if they are not on your ground so cut your losses, go down the pub, watch daytime TV 🙂🙂 If you are keen enough to keep looking and setting up and possibly blanking you will learn the answers to your questions. Re time of day, I have found that it gets later as winter progresses, sometimes getting no action until perhaps 1-2pm over OSR on cold Feb days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 2 hours ago, kitchrat said: OK, I'm sorry if my frustration got the better of me but I did not like being called a whinger when I was laying out my problems and confusion. That is not constructive criticism. I don't mind a bit of humour, insults are another thing... At least we have had some more constructive replies since my little paddy! By the way, there were next to no pigeons to be seen in the area I was watching today. Must have been a transient flock. Some on a drilling right near my house, which is unshootable - roads, houses and paddocks all round. However, some drilling has been going on nearby, on a favourite field, so I'll be watching.. Insults are completely different to our 'rib-tickling' 🙃 You do keep getting lots of help and advice, sometimes repeatedly, but as others have mentioned,,,, you won't ever shoot big numbers of pigeons, which is what you are slightly fixated on, if your areas are limited like you said. Just being out there trying gives me immense satisfaction,,,, if I go home with none or several woodies, I still smile and have also learnt something else,,,, probably 🤓 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 Now we are entering the cold , dark and lean months for Pigeon shooting I now get as much pleasure attending the game shoots and my thoughts about sitting about on dull days with very little action after Pigeons don't no longer have the same appeal as it once did , I had a walk around this afternoon , it was very dull , semi dark and what Pigeons I saw were in the trees and the woods , the trees are still full of leaves and the rape leaves are now changing colour from a rich Green to a Brown / Yellow , if I had gone and set up somewhere I would have got very little shooting ,so the same as a lot of people I am quite happy to leave them alone till you know when it is worth the trouble to carry a lot of gear about or when the land owner give you a ring which is hardly ever nowadays at this time of the year . MM GOOD LUCK to those who are happy to face the challenge of Winter Pigeon shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilts#Dave Posted November 7 Report Share Posted November 7 Further to my points, you can’t always be out shooting pigeons 12 months of the year even when you’ve got access to plenty of ground…..they just won’t be there all the time, that’s how it is! Winter is always a lean time of year for me, and many others so I do spend much less time out looking during the lean times as it’s a waste of time. After a few days on spring drillings I managed to get out most weeks from May up until the end of October and a record for me averaged over 100 per trip when I did the sums. That’s not to say I’ll do it next year, I almost certainly won’t but they were there to find and I made the most of it. However at this time of year through to April again I know I won’t shoot the numbers but there’s no point getting disheartened about it, they’re simply not there to find on numbers and most likely why you seem to be struggling. I must admit, I find winters long and boring without the regular pigeon shooting I enjoy so much and can’t wait for spring to come round again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 Blimey, I go away for a couple of days and this happens........................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Blimey, I go away for a couple of days and this happens........................................... Don't worry Dave , peace have been restored and it was a small case of misunderstanding , although you should have told us about your two day leave of absence and in a way you are partly to blame for not being here to restore peace and order when needed , anyway , I hope you enjoyed your couple of days away from the madhouse . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted November 8 Author Report Share Posted November 8 16 hours ago, marsh man said: Now we are entering the cold , dark and lean months for Pigeon shooting I now get as much pleasure attending the game shoots and my thoughts about sitting about on dull days with very little action after Pigeons don't no longer have the same appeal as it once did , I had a walk around this afternoon , it was very dull , semi dark and what Pigeons I saw were in the trees and the woods , the trees are still full of leaves and the rape leaves are now changing colour from a rich Green to a Brown / Yellow , if I had gone and set up somewhere I would have got very little shooting ,so the same as a lot of people I am quite happy to leave them alone till you know when it is worth the trouble to carry a lot of gear about or when the land owner give you a ring which is hardly ever nowadays at this time of the year . MM GOOD LUCK to those who are happy to face the challenge of Winter Pigeon shooting Historically, most of my pigeon shooting has been in the winter, earning my permissions by protecting OSR. Now I am back from Canada full time, I enjoyed the "easy" stubble shooting and was pleased to get some good bags. Back to the OSR soon, I suppose.... 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Blimey, I go away for a couple of days and this happens........................................... Nice comment! Cheered me up a bit! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 6 minutes ago, kitchrat said: Historically, most of my pigeon shooting has been in the winter, earning my permissions by protecting OSR. Now I am back from Canada full time, I enjoyed the "easy" stubble shooting and was pleased to get some good bags. Back to the OSR soon, I suppose.... Nice comment! Cheered me up a bit! Cheers! Confused me a bit with this post?? you have easy good bags on the stubbles? But you do most of your pigeon shooting on winter rape? Simple question, how many pigeons would you say you shoot a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 A few of us on the forum can go back to the early days when o s r was like a gift from heaven for the Pigeon shooter , a few reasons were , very little of it was grown , it was left alone for long periods before it was shot over , like now it was in the height of the game shooting season so some places were out of bounds and it was thought at the time that Pigeons very soon got hooked on the stuff and couldn't leave it alone once they started to feed on the new introduced crop. I know one place we had on the marshland , the farmer left us 13/14 small bales of straw in the middle of the field and the Pigeons had been going on the crop for a week or so , we had the odd day but neither me or my brother had a lot of time until we broke up for Christmas , we shot the field Boxing day and time we finished at the beginning of the Spring drillings in March we had shot well into four figures , from then onwards it never reverted back to those days , more rape was being grown , game shooting was becoming more and more popular , the sale of Pigeons fell away to next to nothing and it might only be my imagination but the Winters have become a lot milder so they don't have to rely on rape . I am sure there are many other reasons , but Pigeon shooters have always tried to adapt to whatever they are up against and try and make of what is available at the time when they set out or setting up . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 Passed a field drilled 7 days ago at 8.45am today with circa 400 pigeons feeding on it,went past again 10.15 and not a bird to be seen. Hth OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted November 8 Author Report Share Posted November 8 25 minutes ago, matone said: Passed a field drilled 7 days ago at 8.45am today with circa 400 pigeons feeding on it,went past again 10.15 and not a bird to be seen. Hth OP. That's what I've been finding and what has confused me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted November 8 Author Report Share Posted November 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, old'un said: Confused me a bit with this post?? you have easy good bags on the stubbles? But you do most of your pigeon shooting on winter rape? Simple question, how many pigeons would you say you shoot a year? OK, for the last 15+ years I have lived mainly in Canada, only coming back to the UK over the winter, both for the game season and rape protection duties (to keep in with the farmers) and to avoid the vicious winters in Canada now that I have got too old to ski/snowmobile the way I would like to. On my winter visits, (maybe 4 or 5 months) I would probably average between 200 and 300 pigeons shot over rape. This year, I have quit Canada and had my 1st season for ages on the stubbles and drillings. It has been like a dream and I have shot, maybe 800 since June. Had to make several trips (35 miles each way) to the game dealer and got a speeding ticket on the way back once! (£92 for the Speed Awareness Course! Edited November 8 by kitchrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 28 minutes ago, kitchrat said: OK, for the last 15+ years I have lived mainly in Canada, only coming back to the UK over the winter, both for the game season and rape protection duties (to keep in with the farmers) and to avoid the vicious winters in Canada now that I have got too old to ski/snowmobile the way I would like to. On my winter visits, (maybe 4 or 5 months) I would probably average between 200 and 300 pigeons shot over rape. This year, I have quit Canada and had my 1st season for ages on the stubbles and drillings. It has been like a dream and I have shot, maybe 800 since June. Had to make several trips (35 miles each way) to the game dealer and got a speeding ticket on the way back once! (£92 for the Speed Awareness Course! Well considering you say you are struggling to find and shoot pigeons over a smallish area I would say that those numbers are not bad. If you take your average over the year you are shooting nearly a 100 pigeons a month, some people would give their back teeth to have the opportunity to shoot that many over a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 1 hour ago, kitchrat said: That's what I've been finding and what has confused me! In that 90 minute timescale you would need to find out why roughly 400 Pigeons moved on , were they scared off the field or moved on because they wanted to , this is why you walk any feeding Pigeons off when you arrive at the field , if none come back within 30 minutes then there is a good chance they have found somewhere else , it then might be worth in giving the field another look later on in the day , failing that , the only real answer need to come from the Pigeon itself and you now the reputation throughout the land about the birds from Essex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B686 Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 Kitchrat your frustrated , try this then im lucky to be surrounded by fields I have been able to shoot the last five years on spring and autumn drilling always good bags on these fields. The farmer drilled wheat a couple of weeks ago about 4 days later there was probably a good 1500 pigeons about , I ring the farmer and seems he’s turned all Chris packham ! He says they are only feeding on the grain on the surface and aren’t doing any damage so he rather i didn’t as he didn’t want to have to prove they were doing damage because of the new laws. If it was osr no problem. So I have had to watch all these pigeons literally on my doorstep and not be able to shoot them. On the bright side I rang the neighbouring farmer who’s land I haven’t shot to see if he was going to drill 4 fields just over the road from me that hadn’t yet been drilled. He said they will be being drilled with spring barley next year and that as soon as I see them being drilled drop him a text and go fill my boots. So every cloud sometimes has a silver lining. I did ask if he had any osr but he said he hasn’t bothered with it this year . Another one who isn’t growing any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 2 hours ago, old'un said: Well considering you say you are struggling to find and shoot pigeons over a smallish area I would say that those numbers are not bad. If you take your average over the year you are shooting nearly a 100 pigeons a month, some people would give their back teeth to have the opportunity to shoot that many over a year. I know we wind him up a bit [🤭] but he appears to be winding [unnecessarily] himself up, IMHO 🤓😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted November 8 Author Report Share Posted November 8 25 minutes ago, JKD said: I know we wind him up a bit [🤭] but he appears to be winding [unnecessarily] himself up, IMHO 🤓😆 For the effort I put in, the returns are low. But, as you say, many are worse off. No harm in trying to do better. Keep up the leg pulling!! Cheers and all the breast! 57 minutes ago, B686 said: Kitchrat your frustrated , try this then im lucky to be surrounded by fields I have been able to shoot the last five years on spring and autumn drilling always good bags on these fields. The farmer drilled wheat a couple of weeks ago about 4 days later there was probably a good 1500 pigeons about , I ring the farmer and seems he’s turned all Chris packham ! He says they are only feeding on the grain on the surface and aren’t doing any damage so he rather i didn’t as he didn’t want to have to prove they were doing damage because of the new laws. If it was osr no problem. So I have had to watch all these pigeons literally on my doorstep and not be able to shoot them. On the bright side I rang the neighbouring farmer who’s land I haven’t shot to see if he was going to drill 4 fields just over the road from me that hadn’t yet been drilled. He said they will be being drilled with spring barley next year and that as soon as I see them being drilled drop him a text and go fill my boots. So every cloud sometimes has a silver lining. I did ask if he had any osr but he said he hasn’t bothered with it this year . Another one who isn’t growing any. Some farmers! I try to explain that a pigeon in my freezer or casserole will eat no more crops in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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