Fox Hunting in the news again

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

No, that would be coarse angling.

Think about it 😉

 

And why use the term 'blood sports'? Do you only shoot clays?

To be honest, I think bloodsport is an appropriate term and is one the public and media would generally use to describe hunting with hounds, but not shooting. 

50 guys on horses and the circus that follows to get one fox could hardly be described as simply vermin control. 

[Dave-G]

5 minutes ago, Penelope said:

So you have only every killed anything to eat and absoluetly no other reason?

So I take it that youare opposed to all driven game shooting, wildfowling, pigeon shooting, etc, etc, 'cause I'd say the vast majority do not do it for soley food purposes.

I don't eat the rabbits I shoot, I sold them to a game dealer for market stalls selling food for human consumption. I now raw feed them to dogs and I'm not personally opposed to shooting live game or animals. and I did it both for sport and to put the meat to use. I also shoot occasional fox to protect game.

The topic is Fox hunting in the news again: news agencies and anti's will do it down more when its not done for food is my point. I'm not into blindly pushing a view that all that we do is right or acceptable to those who are opposed to blood sports, I try to see and speak of each side of a debate.

[marsh man]

I think we are more divided now than when a lot of us headed off to London to stand shoulder to shoulder with the hunting fraternity in what was one of the biggest protests London had seen , would we do it again ?  no I wouldn't and it should be left in the history books as it can no longer be justified in these modern times .   MM 

[Dougy]

Antis agenda is to bann all country sports call it what you will-  blood sports, pest control, crop protection or whatever we want to call it. The Antis will continue to their target, and unfortunately governments have given in to them because they are the majority. And they all stand united unlike their opposition. 

 

[Penelope]

26 minutes ago, marsh man said:

I think we are more divided now than when a lot of us headed off to London to stand shoulder to shoulder with the hunting fraternity in what was one of the biggest protests London had seen , would we do it again ?  no I wouldn't and it should be left in the history books as it can no longer be justified in these modern times .   MM 

I was there in 97 and would do so again at the drop of a hat.

[marsh man]

33 minutes ago, Penelope said:

I was there in 97 and would do so again at the drop of a hat.

That was nearly three generations ago and those older generations are slowly fading away Paul , a lot of them who came with me are no longer here and we would never get the same numbers if we tried to get hunting back , you have only got to look back recently when a local hunt ended up going into someone garden and after ripping the fox to bits they left the guts and bits and pieces for the house owner to clear up , the ones that are taking over from the older guys  are having a totally different outlook to all kinds of fields sports and no way will they tolerate that kind of behavior .    MM

[old man]

2 hours ago, Dougy said:

Antis agenda is to bann all country sports call it what you will-  blood sports, pest control, crop protection or whatever we want to call it. The Antis will continue to their target, and unfortunately governments have given in to them because they are the majority. And they all stand united unlike their opposition. 

 

Yep, they are playing the long game and eventually win solely because of their lobbyists chuntering away in the background?

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Dougy said:

Antis agenda is to bann all country sports call it what you will-  blood sports, pest control, crop protection or whatever we want to call it. The Antis will continue to their target, and unfortunately governments have given in to them because they are the majority. And they all stand united unlike their opposition. 

 

They will, but I don't think trying to resurrect a very unpopular blood sport will do anything other than bring shooting down to. My personal view is we should be distancing ourselves from illegal fox hunting or badger baiting with dogs as far as possible. 

[Dougy]

7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

They will, but I don't think trying to resurrect a very unpopular blood sport will do anything other than bring shooting down to. My personal view is we should be distancing ourselves from illegal fox hunting or badger baiting with dogs as far as possible. 

Oh i most certainly agree regarding the distancing of both, and we dont hear anything of the latter thankfully. 

Fox Hunting with dogs would never be back but as long as they continue to brake the rules i see the Anti brigade will continue to see any form of hunting/shooting as a target. My opinion of course 

[Penelope]

It amazes me the number of user on here more than happy to use the antis phrase, 'blood sports'; they are all FIELD SPORTS.

It appears that their divide and conquor tactics are alive, well and welcomed by some of 'US'. Crazy!!!!

[12gauge82]

23 minutes ago, Penelope said:

It amazes me the number of user on here more than happy to use the antis phrase, 'blood sports'; they are all FIELD SPORTS.

It appears that their divide and conquor tactics are alive, well and welcomed by some of 'US'. Crazy!!!!

Not really. The big difference now is that shooting is an essential job or legal hobby. Hunting and killing fox with a pack of dogs is an illegal activity that the vast majority of the public are against. Times have changed, it's never coming back and I don't want to associate myself or the sport of shooting with it. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

44 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Not really. The big difference now is that shooting is an essential job or legal hobby. Hunting and killing fox with a pack of dogs is an illegal activity that the vast majority of the public are against. Times have changed, it's never coming back and I don't want to associate myself or the sport of shooting with it. 

I completely understand your viewpoint.  

[Poor Shot]

I can see this both ways. 

1. Fox hunting is attracting a lot of attention to fieldsports and risks dragging the whole lot down with it. The remainder of the fieldsports population should completely disassociate itself from fox hunting and leave them out to dry in an attempt to modernise and set ourselves apart from barbaric practises. 

2. Do we really think that the efforts of sabs, antis etc will end at the complete dissolution of fox hunting? Traditionally SABs, hardcore antis are people without a cause, people just looking for a club to be a part of. I'd go as far as saying that most couldn't give two ****s about foxes but they really do feel strongly about those upper class twerps galloping around on horses with little regard for anyone.

There are a lot of people out there in the world who are loners. When they find a group willing to accept the loners and stangers, those that never really fit in anywhere then they'll cling onto it and fully buy in to the ideology. Much the same way that in the US the strangers and losers buy into the modern day klan or nazi or even the BLM movements. They don't have anywhere else to go and no one else who will welcome them in the same way. When questioned they often don't really mind black people or jews and they actually think that defunding the police is a terrible idea, they're just there because the movements are there for them. 

SAB groups have good following on social media but outside of the 2% that actually turn up to disrupt the hunts, most are middle aged house wives or house husbands who share the videos, statuses etc to show others that they feel strongly about something that can be perceived to be a popular opinion. Gerry on the next street over has shared a hunt sab status with a thumbs up, I've now got to do the same or I'll appear to be at odds with Gerry's opinion. Not in a million years would you find Sarah and David, mid 40's from the home counties with 3 children in private education turning up at a sab meet but they will share the social media post and maybe buy a sab group badge to stick on their car. 

Once the laws have been changed, the kennels and stables demolished, huntsmen made redundant and the left over horses and hounds culled then the Gloucester hunt sab group will simply become the Gloucester shoot sab group and so on. Can't have those other posh twerps cutting about the place in tweeds and range rovers, shooting at those poor little pheasants. We'll then have them standing in front of guns, running through the drives, burning down kennels that have gundogs in them etc. Only now we'll have them trying intimidate people who are holding firearms and not everyone has the cool to simply pack up and walk away. It'll only take one rise to their slimy behavior then they've got you on footage, edited only to show the gun reacting to being spat on, punched or attacked by a sab and then your looking at a potential offence and instant loss of certificates. 

Once hunting has had it, then will shooting and then fishing as will horse racing, greyhound racing, moto x, livestock farming, mountain biking and so on. It's an ideology and Ideologies evolve to stay relevant. 

I don't agree with fox hunting and would never participate but I do see them as the low hanging fruit that these near terrorist like groups can target and leave the rest of us to get on with it and because of that they would have my support to continue. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Poor Shot

[Dougy]

2 hours ago, Penelope said:

It amazes me the number of user on here more than happy to use the antis phrase, 'blood sports'; they are all FIELD SPORTS.

It appears that their divide and conquor tactics are alive, well and welcomed by some of 'US'. Crazy!!!!

Not wanting to split hairs here, the phrase "Blood Sports" goes back pre Anti makes no odds the agenda is the same. 

According to the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, a blood sport is a sport that involves the killing of animals or birds. The term can also refer to a ruthless or cutthroat competition or conflict. 

Examples of blood sports include:

Fox-hunting, Stag-hunting, Hare coursing, Badger baiting, Cockfighting, and Dog fighting. 

 

 

The term was originally used to describe mounted hunting, where the quarry would be actively chased. It was popularized by author Henry Stephens Salt

 

 

2 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

I can see this both ways. 

1. Fox hunting is attracting a lot of attention to fieldsports and risks dragging the whole lot down with it. The remainder of the fieldsports population should completely disassociate itself from fox hunting and leave them out to dry in an attempt to modernise and set ourselves apart from barbaric practises. 

2. Do we really think that the efforts of sabs, antis etc will end at the complete dissolution of fox hunting? Traditionally SABs, hardcore antis are people without a cause, people just looking for a club to be a part of. I'd go as far as saying that most couldn't give two ****s about foxes but they really do feel strongly about those upper class twerps galloping around on horses with little regard for anyone.

There are a lot of people out there in the world who are loners. When they find a group willing to accept the loners and stangers, those that never really fit in anywhere then they'll cling onto it and fully buy in to the ideology. Much the same way that in the US the strangers and losers buy into the modern day klan or nazi or even the BLM movements. They don't have anywhere else to go and no one else who will welcome them in the same way. When questioned they often don't really mind black people or jews and they actually think that defunding the police is a terrible idea, they're just there because the movements are there for them. 

SAB groups have good following on social media but outside of the 2% that actually turn up to disrupt the hunts, most are middle aged house wives or house husbands who share the videos, statuses etc to show others that they feel strongly about something that can be perceived to be a popular opinion. Gerry on the next street over has shared a hunt sab status with a thumbs up, I've now got to do the same or I'll appear to be at odds with Gerry's opinion. Not in a million years would you find Sarah and David, mid 40's from the home counties with 3 children in private education turning up at a sab meet but they will share the social media post and maybe buy a sab group badge to stick on their car. 

Once the laws have been changed, the kennels and stables demolished, huntsmen made redundant and the left over horses and hounds culled then the Gloucester hunt sab group will simply become the Gloucester shoot sab group and so on. Can't have those other posh twerps cutting about the place in tweeds and range rovers, shooting at those poor little pheasants. We'll then have them standing in front of guns, running through the drives, burning down kennels that have gundogs in them etc. Only now we'll have them trying intimidate people who are holding firearms and not everyone has the cool to simply pack up and walk away. It'll only take one rise to their slimy behavior then they've got you on footage, edited only to show the gun reacting to being spat on, punched or attacked by a sab and then your looking at a potential offence and instant loss of certificates. 

Once hunting at had it, then will shooting and then fishing as will horse racing, greyhound racing, moto x, livestock farming, mountain biking and so on. It's an ideology and Ideologies evolve to stay relevant. 

I don't agree with fox hunting and would never participate but I do see them as the low hanging fruit that these near terrorist like groups can target and leave the rest of us to get on with it and because of that they would have my support to continue. 

 

Poor shot you put it allot better than i could. 

 

[Penelope]

24 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

1. Fox hunting is attracting a lot of attention to fieldsports and risks dragging the whole lot down with it. The remainder of the fieldsports population should completely disassociate itself from fox hunting and leave them out to dry in an attempt to modernise and set ourselves apart from barbaric practises. 

What happens when driven game shooting becaomes the main focus of the antis; are the the rough shooters, wildfowlers and pigeon shooters to disassociate themselves?

What if you partake of all the forms mentioned; do you disassociate from yorself?

A very slippery slope.

[Poor Shot]

2 minutes ago, Penelope said:

What happens when driven game shooting becaomes the main focus of the antis; are the the rough shooters, wildfowlers and pigeon shooters to disassociate themselves?

What if you partake of all the forms mentioned; do you disassociate from yorself?

A very slippery slope.

See part 2 of my last post. This does not stop but only evolves to keep step with the progress made. 

[Penelope]

2 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

See part 2 of my last post. This does not stop but only evolves to keep step with the progress made. 

I read it.

My questions still stand.

[clangerman]

come on peeps by now one of you should have noticed if it’s one go all go how come the ONLY ones who have gone are those who kill animals with a large pack of dogs! 

[Poor Shot]

10 minutes ago, Penelope said:

I read it.

My questions still stand.

I outlined that I could see it both ways but clearly stated my preference in the last line. 

Your questions are valid. If we cast out fox hunting, then who is next?

Big bag commercial shoots? It can be argued that there is little outlet for hundreds of shot pheasants hence the value of the carcass being pennies. 

Small hobby and syndicate shoots? They don't support the local economy in the same way the commercial shoots do. Local people on a local shoot aren't booking rooms in a local hotel, having their lunch at a local pub (more likely home cooked out the back of a landrover). Can't they just take up golf or something? 

Wildfowling? All those red and amber listed species that are still on the quarry list. 

Or even pest control? A lot of (flawed) anti shooting arguments out there support just leaving nature to it with no predator or pest control and what will be will be. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Poor Shot

[Poor Shot]

39 minutes ago, clangerman said:

come on peeps by now one of you should have noticed if it’s one go all go how come the ONLY ones who have gone are those who kill animals with a large pack of dogs! 

Only ones that have gone so far.. 

As said, fox hunting is the main focus at the moment but there are signs that this will spread should fox hunting go completely. Remember the disruption caused by antis on last years glorious 12th? That was only a small effort by a few individuals and could quite easily become a wholescale shoot sab movement. 

Outside of shooting we already have numerous cases of mountain biking trails being sabotaged with nail boards, ropes strung across the track at body height etc by some quite frankly deranged people who believe they have the right to do those things. 

Locally we have a park lake that was littered with no fishing signs by an individual which has since been backed up by the park based on the disruption caused. Just so happens that there is nothing but Canadian pond weed, duck **** and silt in there anyway but just goes to show how this sort of thing is growing. 

These lunatics always have and always will exist. Right now they are almost wholly focused on fox hunting. It needs to remain that way. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Poor Shot

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Only ones that have gone so far.. 

As said, fox hunting is the main focus at the moment but there are signs that this will spread should fox hunting go completely. Remember the disruption caused by antis on last years glorious 12th? That was only a small effort by a few individuals and could quite easily become a wholescale shoot sab movement. 

Outside of shooting we already have numerous cases of mountain biking trails being sabotaged with nail boards, ropes strung across the track at body height etc by some quite frankly deranged people who believe they have the right to do those things. 

Locally we have a park lake that was littered with no fishing signs by an individual which has since been backed up by the park based on the disruption caused. Just so happens that there is nothing but Canadian pond weed, duck **** and silt in there anyway but just goes to show how this sort of thing is growing. 

These lunatics always have and always will exist. Right now they are almost wholly focused on fox hunting. It needs to remain that way. 

Really, I wasn't aware of that sort of thing happening.

[Dougy]

1st Badger baiting 

2nd Deer & Hare coursing 

3rd Fox hunting

4th Driven game to Inc Grouse, Pheasant and Partidge. 

5th Angling both game and course.

Then probably back on crop protection to include pigeon,  corridor etc. 

 

 

[Poor Shot]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Really, I wasn't aware of that sort of thing happening.

Yes on both counts. 

Before I came back to shooting a few years ago I was quite into mountain biking and would cover 50+ miles a week on local trails. It wasn't uncommon to find nail boards on trails, broken glass, nails scattered on the ground, trees felled across paths. I've no idea why one would take offense to others using public trails for purposes other than walking but these people do live among us. 

Anti-fishing opinion is growing fast. Find an article in your local online rag about a swan found with a hook in it's throat or something and read the comments. It's not quite at anti shooting levels but there are people out there that find the act of hooking a fish by it's mouth just to look at it and then toss it back quite abhorrent. 

[Penelope]

3 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Before I came back to shooting a few years ago I was quite into mountain biking and would cover 50+ miles a week on local trails. It wasn't uncommon to find nail boards on trails, broken glass, nails scattered on the ground, trees felled across paths. I've no idea why one would take offense to others using public trails for purposes other than walking but these people do live among us. 

I have often encountered mountain bikers who have absolutely no consideration for other path users, flying around at plus 20mph speeds. It at very least hurts to be hit by a bike at that speed (I speak from experience, I was lucky), so I can understand, if not condone those actions. (Me - sometimes road cyclist, and some of them can be complete arises too).

[yates]

On 18/11/2024 at 22:51, Dave-G said:

I'm not so sure about that, there's a massive difference between dogs chasing a petrified fox till it can't run anymore or digging it out, than a quick humane shot the quarry didn't even know is coming after it. When troublesome foxes can be destroyed humanely by shooting there is bound to be many who feel several dogs chasing then ripping them to death is a savage way to deal with them that is way past its time to desist.

That the hunts do it so visibly with utter contempt of the law is their own fault it looming again. We rightly condemn lefties who obstruct the will of the people in the Brexit vote yet many on the right obfuscate and defy the vote against fox hunting.

Spot on. Well said