12gauge82 Posted Sunday at 15:42 Report Share Posted Sunday at 15:42 6 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said: They have shot people before for carrying a table leg in a bag and a battery drill haven’t they? All total madness,some police should never be allowed near a cap gun. If your referring to the Harry Stanley case, my view is they were totally justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted Sunday at 16:07 Report Share Posted Sunday at 16:07 6 hours ago, Westley said: Is there one ? York guns moved out of the City, but the last I heard, they were closing. Maybe he was a 'prohibited ' person ? There is W. Richards. Pocklington. Chris Caine is the gunsmith there. Really nice guy. Worth visiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted Sunday at 16:46 Report Share Posted Sunday at 16:46 33 minutes ago, Fil said: There is W. Richards. Pocklington. Chris Caine is the gunsmith there. Really nice guy. Worth visiting. Yes, I keep trying to go and visit the shop. I was going into the original W. Richards in the 1960's and knew the shop manager/gunsmith quite well. Funnily enough, I was game shooting yesterday and somebody commented on my 50 size pigskin cartridge bag. It is ideal for smaller days. I bought that second hand from Richards of Liverpool in 1970's. I paid around £25 for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted Sunday at 16:52 Report Share Posted Sunday at 16:52 5 minutes ago, Westley said: Yes, I keep trying to go and visit the shop. I was going into the original W. Richards in the 1960's and knew the shop manager/gunsmith quite well. Funnily enough, I was game shooting yesterday and somebody commented on my 50 size pigskin cartridge bag. It is ideal for smaller days. I bought that second hand from Richards of Liverpool in 1970's. I paid around £25 for it. The shop closed down last year. f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted Sunday at 16:58 Report Share Posted Sunday at 16:58 3 minutes ago, Fuddster said: The shop closed down last year. f. Oh no. I never knew. Chris is a top bloke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted Sunday at 17:18 Report Share Posted Sunday at 17:18 18 minutes ago, Fil said: Oh no. I never knew. Chris is a top bloke. a well earned retirement for him and his wife. Was excellent for repairs and made guns from scratch. f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN749 Posted Sunday at 17:32 Report Share Posted Sunday at 17:32 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: If your referring to the Harry Stanley case, my view is they were totally justified. What? Challenged from behind,and shot dead from 15 feet as he turned to face them unarmed. Would you feel the same way if it was one of your family murdered by a gun hoe cop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted Sunday at 18:59 Report Share Posted Sunday at 18:59 1 hour ago, TOPGUN749 said: What? Challenged from behind,and shot dead from 15 feet as he turned to face them unarmed. Would you feel the same way if it was one of your family murdered by a gun hoe cop. Like many things in life, nothing is straight forwards. Previously convicted of armed robbery and GBH, although this was to the best of my knowledge unknown to the officers at the time, it had been reported to them that he was an Irish man with a gun wrapped in a plastic bag. They challenged him and he spun around pointing what they believed to be a gun in their direction and opened fire in self defence. There was a change in the original belief that they had shot him in the back after further forensic work. After several inquiries and investigations by the IOPC the officers were found to have done nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkin Posted Sunday at 19:43 Report Share Posted Sunday at 19:43 10 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said: They have shot people before for carrying a table leg in a bag and a battery drill haven’t they? In total madness,some police should never be allowed near a cap gun. Think they would be Dangerous with a water pistol.I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted Sunday at 21:04 Report Share Posted Sunday at 21:04 5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: If your referring to the Harry Stanley case, my view is they were totally justified. Shooting an unarmed man, I am glad you are not in charge of police accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted Sunday at 21:10 Report Share Posted Sunday at 21:10 The armed police do seem to be a bit overzealous in GB common sense does not seem to be part of their training, here any officer would be sent not armed response, they are reserved for real emergencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted Sunday at 21:51 Report Share Posted Sunday at 21:51 38 minutes ago, ordnance said: The armed police do seem to be a bit overzealous in GB common sense does not seem to be part of their training, here any officer would be sent not armed response, they are reserved for real emergencies. So are you saying that if someone is reported as having a weapon, the village Bobby turns up on his push bike as a first response ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN749 Posted Sunday at 22:05 Report Share Posted Sunday at 22:05 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Like many things in life, nothing is straight forwards. Previously convicted of armed robbery and GBH, although this was to the best of my knowledge unknown to the officers at the time, it had been reported to them that he was an Irish man with a gun wrapped in a plastic bag. They challenged him and he spun around pointing what they believed to be a gun in their direction and opened fire in self defence. There was a change in the original belief that they had shot him in the back after further forensic work. After several inquiries and investigations by the IOPC the officers were found to have done nothing wrong. Yes,as is usually the case when police are involved in crimes, very few are ever judged guilty,it’s covered up and they get away with it,it’s the establishment at work. They live to kill again and their fellow officers back them by threatening to stop their duties unless their man is let off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted Sunday at 22:14 Report Share Posted Sunday at 22:14 Can I ask how many contributors to this topic have ever been involved in front line Policing, armed or otherwise ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted Sunday at 22:57 Report Share Posted Sunday at 22:57 1 hour ago, Westley said: So are you saying that if someone is reported as having a weapon, the village Bobby turns up on his push bike as a first response ?? They do here, but usualy not on a push bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted Sunday at 23:36 Report Share Posted Sunday at 23:36 2 hours ago, ordnance said: Shooting an unarmed man, I am glad you are not in charge of police accountability. If someone including a police officer or not believers there is an imminent threat to their life, you are allowed to use reasonable force, based on that belief to defend yourself, even if your belief of imminent threat turns out to be wrong. If that wasn't the case, you would have to wait to be shot to make sure someone is pointing a real firearm at you and not an imitation before you could open fire, which wouldn't be much good as you'd likely be dead. I hope your not in charge of any accountability! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted Monday at 07:28 Author Report Share Posted Monday at 07:28 Well, thankfully this thread is back on topic, or at least close to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted Monday at 07:29 Report Share Posted Monday at 07:29 7 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: If someone including a police officer or not believers there is an imminent threat to their life, you are allowed to use reasonable force, based on that belief to defend yourself, even if your belief of imminent threat turns out to be wrong. If that wasn't the case, you would have to wait to be shot to make sure someone is pointing a real firearm at you and not an imitation before you could open fire, which wouldn't be much good as you'd likely be dead. I hope your not in charge of any accountability! If you are going to challenge someone from behind and they turn carrying a plastic bag there hands would be on the outside of that bag not in it surely with your training you can see he was not about to shoot at them it was a case of shoot first ask questions later i wouldn't like to take you on a rough days shooting where stuff bolts and you got to recognise it before you shoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted Monday at 07:49 Report Share Posted Monday at 07:49 As I’ve stated before, I’m not the biggest fan of the Police, but in my opinion, if anyone points anything in a bag under a coat or whatever, at anyone ( especially an armed Police officer ) with the intention of deceiving that person into believing that what they have in that bag ( even if it’s a chair leg or a banana ) is a firearm, then they only have themselves to blame for the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted Monday at 07:57 Report Share Posted Monday at 07:57 25 minutes ago, Rim Fire said: If you are going to challenge someone from behind and they turn carrying a plastic bag there hands would be on the outside of that bag not in it surely with your training you can see he was not about to shoot at them it was a case of shoot first ask questions later i wouldn't like to take you on a rough days shooting where stuff bolts and you got to recognise it before you shoot Gun in a plastic bag is just as dangerous as one out of a bag, it takes nothing to pull the trigger. I wouldn't like to go on a days shooting with you either, you obviously think a loaded gun in a bag can't harm anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted Monday at 08:34 Report Share Posted Monday at 08:34 26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Gun in a plastic bag is just as dangerous as one out of a bag, it takes nothing to pull the trigger. I wouldn't like to go on a days shooting with you either, you obviously think a loaded gun in a bag can't harm anyone. But it wasn't loaded oh i forgot it wasn't even a gun surely you got to identify first you just can't assume if someone calls you from behind you got to turn around if he is carrying the bag on the outside at that moment in time he is no threat if he sees armed police then makes a move to the bag he becomes a threat there was a case where a blind man was walking down the road using a cane and a police officer tasered him thinking it was a samurai sword AI Overview Learn more In October 2012, a blind man named Colin Farmer was tasered by a police officer in Chorley, Lancashire after the officer mistook his white cane for a samurai sword: The officer received reports of a man walking through Chorley with a sword. The officer tasered Farmer in Peter Street. Farmer was ordered to apologize in person by Lancashire Police. Farmer was also recommended to receive a performance improvement notice. Farmer planned to take civil action and said that an apology would be "crocodile tears". In 2017, the BBC reported that the officer "carried out a suitable risk assessment and, with the information he had available at the time, made what appeared to be an appropriate decision". The BBC also reported that Farmer "acknowledged that his behavior could have led to people being concerned". Tasered blind man: PC Stuart Wright ordered to apologise - BBC News 26 Mar 2014 — A police officer who Tasered a blind man after mistaking his white stick for a samurai sword has been ordered to apolog... BBC Blind man Tasered as cane mistaken for gun in Levenshulme - BBC 24 Feb 2017 — No complaint He said an initial review indicated the officer "carried out a suitable risk assessment and, with the info... BBC PC faces hearing after blind man Tasered in Chorley - BBC 15 Jan 2014 — A police officer who Tasered a 63-year-old blind man when his white stick was mistaken for a samurai sword will face a ... BBC Show all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted Monday at 08:56 Report Share Posted Monday at 08:56 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Rim Fire said: But it wasn't loaded oh i forgot it wasn't even a gun surely you got to identify first you just can't assume if someone calls you from behind you got to turn around if he is carrying the bag on the outside at that moment in time he is no threat if he sees armed police then makes a move to the bag he becomes a threat there was a case where a blind man was walking down the road using a cane and a police officer tasered him thinking it was a samurai sword AI Overview Learn more In October 2012, a blind man named Colin Farmer was tasered by a police officer in Chorley, Lancashire after the officer mistook his white cane for a samurai sword: The officer received reports of a man walking through Chorley with a sword. The officer tasered Farmer in Peter Street. Farmer was ordered to apologize in person by Lancashire Police. Farmer was also recommended to receive a performance improvement notice. Farmer planned to take civil action and said that an apology would be "crocodile tears". In 2017, the BBC reported that the officer "carried out a suitable risk assessment and, with the information he had available at the time, made what appeared to be an appropriate decision". The BBC also reported that Farmer "acknowledged that his behavior could have led to people being concerned". Tasered blind man: PC Stuart Wright ordered to apologise - BBC News 26 Mar 2014 — A police officer who Tasered a blind man after mistaking his white stick for a samurai sword has been ordered to apolog... BBC Blind man Tasered as cane mistaken for gun in Levenshulme - BBC 24 Feb 2017 — No complaint He said an initial review indicated the officer "carried out a suitable risk assessment and, with the info... BBC PC faces hearing after blind man Tasered in Chorley - BBC 15 Jan 2014 — A police officer who Tasered a 63-year-old blind man when his white stick was mistaken for a samurai sword will face a ... BBC Show all I'm not going off topic and through endless police cases that I know nothing about. If you read my post above (I'm not a lawyer and it's not verbatim) it explains what we're allowed to do to defend ourselves under the law, the police are bound by those same laws. Your assertion that the police should have to make sure a firearm is viable before taking action is utterly impractical and flies in the face of our laws of self defence, including the ability to make a premtive strike. It would lead to further loss of innocent life with police being unable to take action until people including themselves were already harmed. Our self defence laws in the UK already put the defender on the back foot, your suggestions would leave decent people utterly defenseless. Edited Monday at 08:56 by 12gauge82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted Monday at 09:07 Report Share Posted Monday at 09:07 23 hours ago, old'un said: Its the way it is now, police get a phone call and guns are mentioned, they go in heavy, as we know it even happens out in the sticks. bit odd that he is still in police custody, as said perhaps there's more to this than we know. Mind you, I would be very wary of carrying any slipped gun in any town or city today. Not quite that straight forward, the call handler will ask for a description of the gun that's been seen and are taught to glean as much info as possible. If there is time a firearms experienced call handler will take over the call and get the best description possible, this is then passed on to "Oscar2" senior handler who in turn decides upon what action to take. The performance and result will be investigated in-house (separate team) over the following days to ensure all possible measures were taken to ensure a safe outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted Monday at 09:29 Report Share Posted Monday at 09:29 17 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: If your referring to the Harry Stanley case, my view is they were totally justified. How in your view dose a man carrying a chair leg in a carry bag deserves to get shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted Monday at 09:34 Report Share Posted Monday at 09:34 9 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: If someone including a police officer or not believers there is an imminent threat to their life, you are allowed to use reasonable force, based on that belief to defend yourself, even if your belief of imminent threat turns out to be wrong. If that wasn't the case, you would have to wait to be shot to make sure someone is pointing a real firearm at you and not an imitation before you could open fire, which wouldn't be much good as you'd likely be dead. I hope your not in charge of any accountability! NOT just an imminent threat to the Officers own life, but more importantly, a THREAT to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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