Guest The Outlaw Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Outlaw My error, I missed the post about chummy being a fireman. However I feel that his employers could only take any action subsequent to a satisfactory prosecution for theft. webber A shadow of doubt cast uppon him could scupper any chance of promotion though so the threat could be good enough to get thier money out of him. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myuserid Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I dont think it is theft, its a bit like going to ASDA and saying do you have any pies for sale, they dont but they will in a few hours. So you say I will pick them up when ready, you haven't paid a deposit or the full amount, no money has exchanged hands. He is not in possession of an illegal firearm as he hasn't purchased (no money exchanged) nor has he the gunshop signed the gun over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Outlaw Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I dont think it is theft, its a bit like going to ASDA and saying do you have any pies for sale, they dont but they will in a few hours. So you say I will pick them up when ready, you haven't paid a deposit or the full amount, no money has exchanged hands.He is not in possession of an illegal firearm as he hasn't purchased (no money exchanged) nor has he the gunshop signed the gun over. The shop filled in the fac so he has bought it but not paid for it. Otherwise they could lose thier RFD ticket for letting someone take a firearm unlisted on the fac. Ref first post "The owner filled all the details out on his fac.Then the so called friend said he hadn't got the money on him.Could he drop it in the next day.Which the owner agreed to as this has happened before and he had always came back as promised." Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taz24 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) Outlaw My error, I missed the post about chummy being a fireman. However I feel that his employers could only take any action subsequent to a satisfactory prosecution for theft. webber A shadow of doubt cast uppon him could scupper any chance of promotion though so the threat could be good enough to get thier money out of him. Tony But everyone is assuming he is guilty. Not knowing the exact details I can't comment, but trying to scupper his career without knowing the facts is wrong. taz. Edited January 13, 2008 by taz24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myuserid Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I dont think it is theft, its a bit like going to ASDA and saying do you have any pies for sale, they dont but they will in a few hours. So you say I will pick them up when ready, you haven't paid a deposit or the full amount, no money has exchanged hands.He is not in possession of an illegal firearm as he hasn't purchased (no money exchanged) nor has he the gunshop signed the gun over. The shop filled in the fac so he has bought it but not paid for it. Otherwise they could lose thier RFD ticket for letting someone take a firearm unlisted on the fac. Ref first post "The owner filled all the details out on his fac.Then the so called friend said he hadn't got the money on him.Could he drop it in the next day.Which the owner agreed to as this has happened before and he had always came back as promised." Tony So the gunshop filled in the guys fac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Outlaw Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Are you trying to get my post count up even quicker you little so-n-so :unsure: Please read the first post slowly and carefully Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_HMR Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Placed and order for a gun which implies a sale Recieved gun on basis that he would pay within one day Didnt pay THEFT He's not in legal possetion of the gun unfortunate circumstance and wont stand well that he has waited so long but cant see a problem getting money back not good for fireman me thinks i'd be teaching him a lesson and learning from my mistakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myuserid Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) Are you trying to get my post count up even quicker you little so-n-so Please read the first post slowly and carefully Tony How did you guess, trying to catch you up It may be worth the shop owner talking to his local firearms force and ask them, its 50/50, technically the gun belongs to the guy who didn't pay for it, but then again it wasnt paid for hence the 50/50 :unsure: I'm sure the gunshop knows what they are doing and where to go next, I would like to hope so anyway! Edited January 13, 2008 by myuserid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Um, the gun doesn't belong to the guy who didn't pay for it at all. Under the law of this great country the title to goods sold does not pass to the buyer until paid for in full. This is the reason you can claim for things you bought on your credit card, technically the goods don't belong to you until you've settled up so the bank are forced by law to look after their interests - otherwise you wouldn't have to pay for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikkamark Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Madness on the gun shop owners part letting a gun walk out of the shop without being paid for friend or no friend the gun should have been paid for in full before going anywhere-he walked himself into this situation At the end of the day it is plain and simple theft so it should be straightforward enough for any decent solicitor to get the money out of the tight p**** :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I’m not a legal type but I don’t think it is theft. Reason is that the shop owner let him take it from the premises on the understanding that he paid for it. Although the devil hasn’t paid yet he may not have paid for a valid reason. Xmpl>> (Being a fireman he may have been injured at work). The shop owner should go round to see him about it face to face with an independent witness. If the law are called in on this one it may be easier to prove that there is a case of attempting to deprive the shop of saleable goods. I expect if push comes to shove he will just bring it back and say it is a load of **** and he doesn’t want it anymore. It’ll be secondhand goods but a lesson may have been learnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 If the law are called in on this one it may be easier to prove that there is a case of attempting to deprive the shop of saleable goods. That my friend, is the definition of theft right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Where is this shop? I don't need a new gun, but if they are giving them away I could always make room for one more :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Actually I don't think it is theft or not in any way that you could prosecute for. It is more a civil matter and the gun shop owner rather than moaning needs to just take the matter on in a business like way. All he needs is a solicitors letter giving the guy 7 days to pay for the goods before it goes to the Small claims court. Then it costs £40 to take to court at that point if he doesn't pay then you can apply to send the baliffs round to his house. It is just business happens to me all the time providing services to scroats who have no intention of paying unless forced. Personally i'd not go for someones employers as if you get them the sack of suspended etc they may become unable to pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Where is this shop? I don't need a new gun, but if they are giving them away I could always make room for one more :unsure: Ok, who are you and what have you done to stuartp? Not to mention the damage this post could have to other men trying to persuade their mrs to let them have another gun? With other men not needing anymore guns, "well that stuartp doesn't need one, so why do you?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 The shop owner has been around his house to try and talk to him he wouldn't answer the door.They tried to ring him many times no reply.The only way was to send him letters recorded delivery.They have since found out he owes a few people round here money.He has had the tyres slashed on his car a few times.I personaly know someone he has bounced a cheque on.He is a complete t*^t he deserves everything he has got coming to him :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P03 Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Actually I don't think it is theft or not in any way that you could prosecute for. It is more a civil matter and the gun shop owner rather than moaning needs to just take the matter on in a business like way. All he needs is a solicitors letter giving the guy 7 days to pay for the goods before it goes to the Small claims court. Then it costs £40 to take to court at that point if he doesn't pay then you can apply to send the baliffs round to his house. It is just business happens to me all the time providing services to scroats who have no intention of paying unless forced. Personally i'd not go for someones employers as if you get them the sack of suspended etc they may become unable to pay I'm not sure "providing services" is the same as retailing goods....Still not sure it's theft though, sounds more like fraud to me. PS al4x please change your avatar it takes me twenty minutes to read one of your posts.......on second thoughts I've got plenty of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 It's not theft, or OPD. It's a civil matter, and from what's been said here it will clearly be decided in the gun shop owner's favour, but the old bill will not touch this with a bargepole- no dishonesty can be PROVEN. HTH :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzyboi Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 My local always askes for a deposit, as do most places to be honest when your paying for something like this...be it cars, furniture, guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I think that might well be the definative view on the subject, cheers oldbill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I wouldn't bank on swift action by the police, they will probably say it's a civil matter, not criminal, as this guy will undoubtably claim he paid in full in cash at the time he collected the gun, and his dog's since eaten the receipt. No, the police nowadays are far too busy chasing real criminals, by investing millions in space age mobile speed cameras, ruthlessly hunting down miscreants like your local vicars wife who happens to be doing 34mph through the deserted village at 6am on Sunday morning. Sad, isn't it..?? Cat I see where you are coming from but under these circumstances you are wrong....any theft of a firearm(even under a criminal deception as in this case) will be acted upon immediately.......civil actions will not be an overiding factor because if they drop the ball on this one and something goes badly wrong down the line then heads would roll. At worst you could report him to the fire service (as you state he is a Trumpton). They have a similarly rigorous discipline code as the other 999 services and he would be in the poo that way as well.....he sounds like a scummy who needs to be taught a lesson.....whether that be in prison or on the dole who cares I had quite a slap down from Death From Below on this one, but if the post from Old Bill is to be relied upon, perhaps I wasn't so far wrong after all..?? I still maintain it's a civil matter, quite rightly the plod won't want to get involved. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berettaman1 Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Cat dont take offence at DFB, hese still smarting that big Sham has left the Toon, after all his posts 8 months ago about what big Sham would achieve at the Magpies. he like me is a sad, sad, man!! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundance Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 A very good friend of mine owns my local gunshop.A so called friend of the his family asked him to get a new gun in for him,a remmington 243 t8 mod scope and ammo.When it arrived the so called friend was contacted to come and pick his gun up.Thats when the problem started,he came in the shop to pick it up.The owner filled all the details out on his fac.Then the so called friend said he hadn't got the money on him.Could he drop it in the next day.Which the owner agreed to as this has happened before and he had always came back as promised.This was approx 5 monthes ago after trying to contact him many times they have wrote and tried to ring he has made no effort to reply.Does anybody know if they have a leg to stand on trying to claim there money back through the courts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundance Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 not a nice chap send some heavy boys round people like him seem two find money with in aday or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_colt Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Can baliff's sieze firearms though? Or would the court have to issue an order for the police to do it? mr_colt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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