how many times

[roadkill]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...nds/7580896.stm

 

keep this as a reminder and lock your guns away wheather it be a bb gun or air rifle keep them away from children

[jimdfish]

Theres something very fishy about this story.

Why would you leave a gun loaded in the back garden where kids are?

Especially if you are as quoted doing target practice. You would have fired the shot off.

Jim

[al4x]

it will be an inexperienced shooter enjoying a bit of plinking with his daughter in the garden and he made a mistake leaving it loaded, daughter picked it up and then the accident happened. Very tragic but also an accident one to learn from but a reminder to anyone that its good for kids to learn about guns but safety has to be at the forefront

[ferretman]

Theres something very fishy about this story.

Why would you leave a gun loaded in the back garden where kids are?

Especially if you are as quoted doing target practice. You would have fired the shot off.

Jim

there is nothing fishy about it,why do people always have to start saying there someing fishy ect.it was just a mistake and no he should not have left it loaded.but you can see it was a accident and the police say so to.

[jimdfish]

I have to say it is fishy because it stinks.

Like a rotten fish.

a quote here from Bakht Rammand, the gun owners grandfather

" He was target practising and somebody phoned his mobile. Rashids sister is very active and she got hold of the gun and pointed it her brother. He was on the high ground and she was on the low ground. It hit him in the middle of the back of his head."

 

 

In the time then that it took to answer his mobile, a five year old whipped up , grabbed the gun, and shot her brother in the head!

 

Would you practice with a rifle in your garden with aneightenn month old and a child described as very active?

When you are plinking you would hear the phone and fire off your shot? i dont know anyone that wouldnt.

 

Jim

 

Stinky,stinky stinky.

Smells

[Highlander]

A stupid stupid mistake but like all accidents avoidable. DO NOT repeat DO NOT 'play' with guns around children! Some people have no regard for 'sensible practice'.

[Curly87]

i dont thinks its that fishy at all.......

 

a ) dont know how big the garden is, so the kid could have been easily sitting safely behind the dad

 

b ) what if his mobile was inside the house? he heard it ringing though S*£% better go get that, quickly placing the gun down and than ran inside

 

the daughter thinks hmm looks like dad is have fun lets go over and investigate whilst he is away, dad to busy on the phone to notice and that’s when the accident happened, it shouldn’t have happened and could have avoided but an accident none the less

 

i think people are far too cynical these days

Edited August 26, 2008 by lloydt87

[death from below]

i dont thinks its that fishy at all.......

 

a ) dont know how big the garden is, so the kid could have been easily sitting safely behind the dad

 

b ) what if his mobile was inside the house? he heard it ringing though S*£% better go get that, quickly placing the gun down and than ran inside

 

the daughter thinks hmm looks like dad is have fun lets go over and investigate whilst he is away, dad to busy on the phone to notice and that�€™s when the accident happened, it shouldn�€™t have happened and could have avoided but an accident none the less

 

i think people are far too cynical these days

 

Niave student?

Edited August 26, 2008 by death from below

[Spaniel]

I feel sorry for the Little Girl who must be frightened senseless and for the little baby which as been injured, but the Father should of known better and took better care.....you never leave a loaded gun laying around no matter what....

 

I just hope they recover quickly

[Evilv]

If the child dies, the father should be charged with involuntary manslaughter:

 

"Involuntary Manslaughter

 

This arises where the accused did not intend to cause death or serious injury but caused the death of another through recklessness or criminal negligence. For these purposes, recklessness is defined as a blatant disregard for the dangers of a particular situation."

 

The same charge has been layed at the feet of shooters who discharged firearms in a grossly negligent manner causing death. Take for example the case Philip Rowe aged 51, shot his stepson while out lamping.

 

Times article re lamping fatality

 

If the child survives which we all hope for no doubt, the father should be charged with malicious wounding like the Northern Irish farmer who shot at a crow in his field with a .22 firing towards a nearby school and seriously wounded a five year old child in the head.

 

Farmer shoots boy in schoolyard

Edited August 26, 2008 by Evilv

[njc110381]

I was really sad when I read this. It's easy to say that he did something stupid, and I'm sure the guy has figured that out for himself now! Not everyone has training to know how to use a gun safely, and common sense doesn't always fix this. I feel for the guy, he may be a first class ****, but nobody deserves to learn like this

 

Wasn't there an experienced shot on here some time ago saying he once loaded his pump gun without thinking in the living room? We all mess up, but luckily most of the time all we have to show for it is a major shock and the feeling of being really stupid for a bit.

[Nial]

If the child dies, the father should be charged with involuntary manslaughter:

"Involuntary Manslaughter

This arises where the accused did not intend to cause death or serious injury but caused the death of another through recklessness or criminal negligence. For these purposes, recklessness is defined as a blatant disregard for the dangers of a particular situation."

 

 

I'd agree, it's unbelieveably stupid, it's like leaving kids playing in and around a car with the engine running and the handbrake off while

you go to answer the phone.

 

I feel sorry for the wee girl, especially if her brother dies. She'll always live with the fact that she shot him, even of she didn't

know what she was doing. I'm not sure that taking the father away from the family will help but he should be sentenced

to community service teaching gun safety to kids every weekend for the next 10 years.

 

 

Nial

[Kay]

Must admit i am very cautious having a 14 yr old son in the house & his neeed to impress young ladys , so its now at my parents (rifle)

[dustyfox]

Im with JDF Something fishy as if it was a phone call why didnt he take the rifle with him, not hard to do that is it. And he hasn't obviously read some safety rules on keeping a rifle so he shouldn't of had it till he learnt the safety of it.

 

Plus its only the dads and the grandads word for what happened.

Edited August 26, 2008 by dustyfox

[lurcherboy]

Been there, done that, and fortunate enough not to have a dead child on my conscience.

 

It's all too easy to forget that a air rifle can kill

 

Thoughts too all those affected

 

 

 

 

 

LB

[Curly87]

"Naive student?"

 

its a frigging air rifle, not an anti tank gun! any old idiot can go out and buy one....... that mixed with the lack of common sense that people seem to have these days, causes accidents..... as we have seen!

 

plus do you honestly think he would have read the manual for gun...... like lurcherboy said its all to easy to forget how powerful an airgun can be, you just take it out the box and plink away, some people just dont seem to think now a days.

 

and lastly the media never helps in any of this, and end up twisting facts leaving bits out just so they can get a good story out of it, you see it all the time in papers

 

obviously thoughts go out to the family, hope he will be ok, the father must be devastated as well

Edited August 27, 2008 by lloydt87

[J@mes]

so what are the theories then? he shot his own son in the head? on purpose? by mistake?

 

we cant just say it "stinks" and then not give reasons behind it, because to me that just looks like scare mongering or sensastionalising what appears to most people to be a terrible accident.

[al4x]

same here accidents happen without knowing all the circumstances how can you say the guy should get banged up etc, he had a legal gun partaking in a legal activity and got side tracked. The girl had been watching / taking part and a tragic accident happened its very easy to have happen when you get distracted, from the accident thread on here a few weeks ago a lot of people have had close shaves this time it wasn't. All too easy to sit behind a keyboard and always be right

[airssassin]

Tragic accident and it underlines the fact that air weapons need to be left in a safe (unloaded) manner even if left unattended for a few seconds. Phone rings.. discharge it into soft earth or at the target BEFORE running for your precious mobile/ doorbell/boiling over pan on stove! Personally, I don't shoot if there are children or domestic pets around as it's asking for trouble.

 

Suggestion:

 

Before you are allowed to ride a moped you have to do Compulsary Basic Training or CBT which is like cycling proficiency for motorbikes with safe handling and some shock images of what can go wrong. How about doing the same for air rifles? It is clear that some people take the responsibility of owning an air rifle more seriously than others and I'm sure some don't read instructions or know what one of these things can do, whereas others read manuals, books and even join excellent forums like this so they can learn from other people's experience. Basic training (carried out once for perhaps 1 or 2 hours) could teach first timers how to handle them correctly and show what they can do so that they are taken seriously.

 

What do you reckon?

[Curly87]

its a hard one, even if you do put tests and training in place for air guns, its still not going to stop the stupid ones still having accidents with other pointy objects......... as they lack the common sense on being safe

[al4x]

same should in that case apply to Kitchen Knives, catapults and all manner of household and gardening tools that result in accidents and deaths each year, same applies to ladders perhaps we ought to have a ladder climbing proficiency test before you can operate one as believe it or not they result in an awful lot of deaths and injuries each year certainly far more than air guns.

[Maiden22]

.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Maiden22

[MC]

How did they get them down? I hope they didn't climb on the desks.

 

There already is a ladder safety training course and by christ is it boring. You wouldn't believe they could string it out for a whole day telling you about ladders and how they should be used. Well actually you probably would.

[Dunkield]

How did they get them down?

I hope the answer is they set light to them.

We have exactly the same policy in our 'workplace', it is there to protect the company from the "where there's a claim, there's blame" culture.

[jimdfish]

with reference to ladders. The case where the caretaker won his claim is worth reading

 

 

HSE 'dodgy' ladder scheme to restart in September

The HSE will launch its Ladder Exchange scheme for 2008 in September, continuing last year’s successful exercise. The scheme will see a large number of Local Authority Enforcement Officers check ladders as part of their visits to workplaces, and remove them if they are “dodgyâ€. The scheme also aims to highlight the risks associated with using a dodgy ladder, and provides employers with the opportunity to exchange their substandard ladder for a new one at a discounted price. Falls from height continue to be one of the main causes of death and serious injury in the workplace, and around a third of all ‘falls from height’ are as a result of a fall from a ladder. Last year’s HSE ladder exchange scheme led to more than 4,200 ladders being removed from workplaces across the UK. But what makes a ladder ‘dodgy’? The HSE says a ladder shouldn’t be used if:

stiles are bent or split as the ladder could collapse;

feet are missing, worn or damaged as the ladder could slip; and

rungs are bent, missing or loose as the ladder could become unstable

Get the HSE Guide on ladder safety (INDG402)

 

Caretaker wins ladder fall case

A school caretaker has successfully sued Hampshire County Council after he was injured falling off a stepladder.  Anthony Gower-Smith fell from the 1.8m stepladder at Awbridge Primary School in Romsey in 2004. In court, he claimed his employer had not shown him how to use the ladder. The council denied negligence. But on Friday, Mr Gower-Smith, from North Baddesley, won his case on the basis the council was 75% to blame. His compensation will now be assessed. Mr Gower-Smith, who had made a claim for £50,000, suffered a fractured skull, fractured cheek bone and kidney injuries in the fall, leading to treatment in intensive care. He has not been able to work since the accident. Hampshire County Council said he was given adequate training and equipment to do the job. The authority said Mr Gower-Smith signed an induction training sheet in 2002 on starting the job to show he had received training to use stepladders. At the time a health and safety report said the council was not at fault and the council claimed that Mr Gower-Smith had positioned the ladder improperly before overbalancing. At London's High Court, Recorder Christopher Moger QC, who recently heard the case at Winchester County Court, said Mr Gower-Smith's training was deficient. He said Mr Gower-Smith knew he should not go on to the top platform of the ladder but did so and, by doing so, increased the likelihood of it overturning. "Notwithstanding his self-confidence and readiness to trust in his own judgement, I find that his lack of training was responsible for... his lack of awareness of the extent of the danger posed and therefore the accident itself," he said. The damages award will be reduced by 25% to reflect Mr Gower-Smith's contributory negligence. After the verdict Hampshire County Council said it was sorry but "surprised and disappointed" with the decision. Councillor David Kirk, Hampshire County Council's member for children's services, said: "While the judge acknowledged training had been given to Mr Gower-Smith he found that there was insufficient emphasis placed on the positioning of the step ladder even though this guidance is in our manual, which is routinely reviewed to reflect new HSE regulations. Comment: Yet another reminder that giving employees a manual to read cannot be considered to be training.

 

Jim