paulf Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 At last some good news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7961770.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glynn Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 About time, shame it is not happening in England. I have friends who have almost lost everything bescause of tb. These people shoud look at the well being of farmers who have work for generations on there farm and stand to lose it all before putting the well being of badgers / vermin beore us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 On the 3 permissions l have (2000 Acres) l know there are 27 sets - and they have grown by at least 3 every year for the last 3. Average set has say? 4 badgers average?? 108 badgers ? thats a lot of badgers! T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just finished a large write up on the subject of Bovine TB. It appears from my research and readings that culling badgers infact spreads bTB as the ones left over move around a hell of a lot more to establish new teritories! Just one school of thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulf Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 The trouble is the culls have always been stoped short or sabotadged thus thecurrent data isnt particularly acurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scout Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 They are definately on the increase I see more and more each year I know on my permission of about 400 acres there are at least 8 sets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpersniper Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Libs, a bloke came to talk to us about it to our Uni last year, he seemed to think that you are better off leaving them alone if your in an area clean from tb because infected ones might move in because you create a vacume. But im sure they should all be controlled to extent just because they have no predators. Is the cull in pembrokshire or all of wales? I say fair play to Elin Jones our agriculture minister on TB, apparantly she gets personal death threats from antis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 What calibre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Very few of the farmers i know agree with the culling of them. One of my farmers is of the same belief as someone above, his badgers dont have TB, as soon as he shoots them then badgers that could be carrying it will move in. Therefore making a problem. I have loads on my land, easily count double figures in a few hours lamping, but im not sure they are really causing much problem. Worst thing they do is undermine the field so the tractor makes massive holes. But the farmer works around this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Nick, I don't know a single farmer who does not support a badger cull. I talk to farmers on a daily basis, and I am a cattle and arable farmer myself. Friends and family have lost staggering sums of money having infected cattle slaughtered. Badgers are an absolute menace. However the local badger protection and welfare groups are an equal problem - these people do not care about private property and farming operations. They traipse whereever they please, hectoring farmers whenever there is a perceived slight against the little black and white tossers. One spilt slug pellet and the badger group lunatics are all over us like a rash, bringing the coppers with them. I have probably mentioned it on here before, but I have had to assist our local vicar reinterring human remains that have been dug up by Brock. That was a sobering, anger-inducing experience. What was more unamusing was the Badger Group requesting that the graves were moved from the graveyard to another site, so that the badgers could remain undisturbed. Any cull permitted in England would become an eradication programme, and I would be the first to stock up on V-Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 and I would be the first to stock up on V-Max. SNAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 What calibre? As I understand it, the legal answer to your question is ;- Shotgun, not less than 20 bore. Rifle, not less than 160ft lbs muzzle energy with a bullet weight not less than 38 grains. I must just say, I have no opinion on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) one of the other benefits of a cull is to ground nesting birds, Brock hammers these as eggs are a nice snack. Farmers get the blame for decline in birds but all along its our mate brock doing the damage. A keeper I know used to be on an estate that was used for a trial and the results were staggering compared to an estate down the road where they weren't controlled, but as the study was sponsored in part by an organisation who wanted to show it made no difference the study never got released. Like everything protection increases numbers but when they have no natural predators except for cars numbers do get silly Edited March 26, 2009 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Like everything protection increases numbers but when they have no natural predators except for cars numbers do get silly Fitting extra-low sump guards to all farm/shooting trucks would increase that predation. Badgers are allegedly responsible for the decline in hedgehog numbers. I'd far rather see hedgehogs about than badgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 we should be allowed to shoot them on sight the damm things are a waste of fresh air,they do doing for the countryside only make it a mess and destroy other wildlife there good for nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaniels Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) About time, shame it is not happening in England. I have friends who have almost lost everything bescause of tb. These people shoud look at the well being of farmers who have work for generations on there farm and stand to lose it all before putting the well being of badgers / vermin beore us. Glynn - this may be of use to your farmer friends - For those working from the other side i.e the farmers side - Defra cattle compensation illegal, rules High Court This morning, Lord Justice Stanley Burnton sitting in the High Court ruled that Defra failed to compensate adequately the owners of higher value livestock culled on grounds that they have bovine TB. The Court held that as the Cattle Compensation (England) Order 2006 fails to pay market value to these owners, it conflicts with the EU law principle of equality and is therefore illegal. As a result of the ruling, Defra must either find funds to compensate farmers properly or successfully appeal. Tim Russ, head of agriculture at law firm Clarke Willmott, brought the case against Defra on behalf of Devon farmer David Partridge, whose high-value pedigree dairy cattle were taken away for slaughter in March 2006. Compensation paid to him was based on the “table values†that Defra had introduced the month before. Tim said, “This is a fantastic result. It’s a real lift to the agricultural community, especially after last week’s very disappointing decision not to cull TB-infected badgers that are spreading the disease to cattle. While Defra has been granted permission to appeal because of the importance of the case, the judgement is seriously damning of Defra’s failure to act fairly in devising the table value scheme, so a successful appeal is unlikely. The judgement will potentially help many farmers who have been under-compensated in similar situations to Mr Partridge. I hope this opens the flood gates in compensation claims. Defra have got it so wrong with 'table values'.... Edited March 26, 2009 by spaniels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Spaniels, Many thanks for that; we're hard hit in my area. Printed it off and took it straight to my farmer. First time I've seen him smile in ages. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaniels Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 No problems, happy to help. Clarke Willmott are a good firm, i have had dealing with them recently, and am very much aware of another possible case against Defra about to start... http://www.clarkewillmott.co.uk/index.html?news=757 The more cases that Defra get against them (being sued) the more they will be looking into other ways of dealing with the problem of how contain TB rather than just paying out the least amount possible. As much as i dislike Badgers, i'm yet to be convinced that a cull will work unless they are completely eradicated in the south west and other problem areas, which would be very difficult to do. That's if Badgers are the only carriers out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) " LIBS Just finished a large write up on the subject of Bovine TB. It appears from my research and readings that culling badgers infact spreads bTB as the ones left over move around a hell of a lot more to establish new teritories! Just one school of thought.... " i would say that its not the remaining badgers that are moving out but that other badgers are moving into the less populated areas where culling has taken place. if you look at the map of the area you can see that its on a sticky out area of the coast and therefore a lot easier to control the influx of other badgers. Edited March 26, 2009 by peck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I think i go along with the school of thought that is if no TB is present in an area leave the badgers alone, however if TB is present then a cull is necessary. Anybody from Ireland like to confirm something i heard that a cull was 90% successful in eradicating TB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Nick, I don't know a single farmer who does not support a badger cull. I talk to farmers on a daily basis, and I am a cattle and arable farmer myself. Friends and family have lost staggering sums of money having infected cattle slaughtered. Badgers are an absolute menace. However the local badger protection and welfare groups are an equal problem - these people do not care about private property and farming operations. They traipse whereever they please, hectoring farmers whenever there is a perceived slight against the little black and white tossers. One spilt slug pellet and the badger group lunatics are all over us like a rash, bringing the coppers with them. I have probably mentioned it on here before, but I have had to assist our local vicar reinterring human remains that have been dug up by Brock. That was a sobering, anger-inducing experience. What was more unamusing was the Badger Group requesting that the graves were moved from the graveyard to another site, so that the badgers could remain undisturbed. Any cull permitted in England would become an eradication programme, and I would be the first to stock up on V-Max. :blink: You can stick your heads in the sand for as long as you like but a brocks only use is for shaving brushes and Sunday roasts. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Baldrick, Your alot more experianced than i am in this area, but certainly 2 of my farmers who have large stocks of cattle really dont want them shot, he's had no problems with TB, so why would he change anything. Im not saying that a cull isnt needed in other areas, but i dont nessicarily agree with a blanket, 'shoot them all' sort of solution. When they became a problem or i got asked to shoot them i too would be more than happy to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapwing Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 All a matter of balance. We have far too many badgers for the food available, numbers on our farm having gone up tenfold in the last 15 years. Personally I would rather see a few more ground nesting birds successfully rear young and not have the wanton destruction of downland associated with brock ripping up the turf hunting for grubs, let alone the damage with their excavations. I dont think many farmers would want to see every badger gone: just a bit of common sense about realistic sustainable healthy populations. There was a big error in passing protection legislation when all that was needed was a welfare law. This idea of vaccinating the little darlings appears to have been dreampt up by someone who has never met a wild badger at close quarters. Maybe a better idea might be to have an effective complete cull in TB hotspots, then when clear release a few vaccinated beasts to start a healthy nucleus? That would show a bit of compromise by both sides, but would require an acceptance by the bobble hatted brigade that numbers would still have to be kept in control. The worries about culls spreading the disease are the result of ineffective trials being messed up by idiots releasing trapped badgers, and being too small in area to cover all the infected setts. It really needs the likes of RSPB to get off the fence and admit the damage being done to wild bird populations rather than keeping an eye on their legacy bequests from cat owning members of the Badger Groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 A noble sentiment, Lapwing, but the badger groups have a deeply unhealthy amount of influence over DEFRA, Natural England and all the other pointless quango groups. The Protection of Badgers Act 1992 will never be repealed, and I doubt it will ever be amended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytie Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 One of my friends just can't get his cattle clear. It's re-test after re-test. On our shoot we have always had one big set, during the winter the badgers have dug two more and just across the road their are more big sets. We lost our only two breeding pairs of partridge nests, last year, to badgers. This was seen by the farmer over whose land we shoot, but he doesn't want them shot . On three neighbouring farms they would be delighted to cull if it was legal. You want to see the mess they make of a golf course too. Pretty harsh when it is your living being affected, not to be able to cull them. Would people worry if they were ugly, I think not. ft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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