jonboy1 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Yes i have seen the footage he was pushed i can see that but he fell over, he wasnt tripped or bundled to the floor... So, whatever happened to 'if you don't move along you will be arrested' ? Can we now expect (to a person offering no violence towards the police) 'if you don't move along you will be hit from behind with a baton then shoved so hard you hit the floor even if your hands are in your pockets so you can't break your fall'? No matter how you 'flower' it up or ridiculously liken it to kids in the playground , excessive force was used that 'could' have brought on a heart attack. "He was pushed, then fell over"? Come on, at least be honest! You can bet your **** the copper involved is not sitting at home thinking "i did everything by the book and have nothing whatsoever to worry about". Anyway this could go on all day so i'll leave it there and will be interested to hear the outcome of any enquiries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The guy was pushed, I am 16 and a bit stone (but before you say... i have a 32 inch waist and can run 1.5 miles in 8 mins) add 1.5 stone of body armour (depending what one he was wearing) and equipment i weight in at nigh on 18 stone, chances are if i push you you are going to move or fall over, especially if you are walking by crossing your feet and dithering. So are you saying we should ban pusing in the play ground incase somone has a heart attack? Its a simple case of if you are told to move you move, if he was pushed by a bouncer on a sat night, went home and had a heart attack then thats life. Its a sad thing to happen, but he died of a heart attack simple as (its even in the post mortem, that and that he had been drinking) But lets say its a sad thing to happen. I listened to Brian Paddick discussing this on Radio 4 this lunchtime. In Paddick's opinion (undoubtedly one even more expert than yours, ph5172), based on the evidence in the public arena, the officer wielding the baton and pushing Tomlinson is guilty of assault as the bare minimum. I also listened to the interview with the medical student who attended to Tomlinson, who will be testifying to the IPCC that she was prevented from resucitating Tomlinson by officers. Unfortunately, the IPCC investigation into this is to be led by the City of London Police, which to me, sounds like the beginnings of a whitewash already. How circumspect of the IPCC to nominate a Force that was physically involved in the policing operation alongside the Met at Monument Station that day. Why not another constabulary? Any wise answer to that? And as a retort to your derivative, Walting quote that you reel out whenever police conduct is mentioned, can you honestly say that the actions depicted in that video are those of daring and high achievement? No. If you want to preach like that, do a tour in Iraq or Helmand and then come back and hector us about valiant strife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 ph5172 Bashed with a Baton and then pushed, thats what I saw on the film or is this how you make up evidence, by missing bits out :o Like the baton bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboy1 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I listened to Brian Paddick discussing this on Radio 4 this lunchtime. In Paddick's opinion (undoubtedly one even more expert than yours, ph5172), based on the evidence in the public arena, the officer wielding the baton and pushing Tomlinson is guilty of assault as the bare minimum. I also listened to the interview with the medical student who attended to Tomlinson, who will be testifying to the IPCC that she was prevented from resucitating Tomlinson by officers. Unfortunately, the IPCC investigation into this is to be led by the City of London Police, which to me, sounds like the beginnings of a whitewash already. How circumspect of the IPCC to nominate a Force that was physically involved in the policing operation alongside the Met at Monument Station that day. Why not another constabulary? Any wise answer to that? And as a retort to your derivative, Walting quote that you reel out whenever police conduct is mentioned, can you honestly say that the actions depicted in that video are those of daring and high achievement ? No. If you want to preach like that, do a tour in Iraq or Helmand and then come back and hector us about valiant strife. With ***** on! Well said Baldrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) I listened to Brian Paddick discussing this on Radio 4 this lunchtime. In Paddick's opinion (undoubtedly one even more expert than yours, ph5172), based on the evidence in the public arena, the officer wielding the baton and pushing Tomlinson is guilty of assault as the bare minimum. I also listened to the interview with the medical student who attended to Tomlinson, who will be testifying to the IPCC that she was prevented from resucitating Tomlinson by officers. Unfortunately, the IPCC investigation into this is to be led by the City of London Police, which to me, sounds like the beginnings of a whitewash already. How circumspect of the IPCC to nominate a Force that was physically involved in the policing operation alongside the Met at Monument Station that day. Why not another constabulary? Any wise answer to that? And as a retort to your derivative, Walting quote that you reel out whenever police conduct is mentioned, can you honestly say that the actions depicted in that video are those of daring and high achievement? No. If you want to preach like that, do a tour in Iraq or Helmand and then come back and hector us about valiant strife. Touché Edited April 8, 2009 by ph5172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Brutal ,thuggish action totally unnessessary . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The guy looked dazed / a bit woozy from the start of the clip. I just hope that it doesn't transpire that he was unwell. If he had a drink inside him then the smear machine will be hard at work, throwing up irrelevant suggestions and questions such as "why was he there" and "why was he drunk" and "he was asking for it". This is the same Daily Mail mentality that suggested that because Jean Charles Demenes was an illegal immigrant, he shouldn't have been in the country, shouldn't have been on the public underground and therefore liable to be shot dead by police as an unarmed man on his way to the gym. Don't get me wrong, I support the police and am now very tired of the JCD enquiry and his family, however, having very close friends in the police I know that a fair few of the police are "lads" who are always "well up for it". Some may even go as far as to call them boot boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Sorry guys but I can't get my head around some of these comments on this thread, weren't any of you on the london protest for our country sports a while back, when the hyped up coppers in body armour and shields started beating the xxxp out of people, Since the miners strike of the 80's these sort of tactics seem to becoming more and more common, 2001 I was involved in protesting against infected fmd carcases being brought into a clean area, the police response was to swamp the area with riot police, they out numbered the farmers wives and children 6 to 1, very menacing, very aggresive, and to help things along in their favour there was even people put into our group who tried stiring things up, unfortunately for them we're not the dull sheep shaggers they thought we were & we took these people to one side and had a quite word with them they were seen no more, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) Sorry guys but I can't get my head around some of these comments on this thread, weren't any of you on the london protest for our country sports a while back,when the hyped up coppers in body armour and shields started beating the xxxp out of people, Yes, I was at the Liberty and Livelihood march, as were a significant number of fellow PWers. I can't speak for anyone else, but that day burnt on my brain a deep-rooted resentment of the Police. Edited April 8, 2009 by Baldrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 wasn't it completely peaceful though, I was on both and can't remember any violence at all and a good atmosphere with the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 "2001 I was involved in protesting against infected fmd carcases being brought into a clean area, the police response was to swamp the area with riot police, they out numbered the farmers wives and children 6 to 1, very menacing, very aggresive, and to help things along in their favour there was even people put into our group who tried stiring things up, unfortunately for them we're not the dull sheep shaggers they thought we were & we took these people to one side and had a quite word with them they were seen no more," They were government provocateurs which tried to get you to riot so that they would have a reason to break you up, it is good that you responded in a peaceful manner and singeled them out. The police in this manner acted very thuggishly, not to mention the "spontaneous looting" of the RBS Scotland bank didn't look very spontaneous, you can see when the guy is smashing the window up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYK8RDZm9tM Look at 0:45. Very spontaneous rioting with over 20 news cameras there. Come on it was government provocateurs, most probably MI-5 or Mi-6 who tried to stir up trouble and make peaceful protests seem like thuggish behgaviour. All they covered on the news was some thugs with balaclavas smashing the Royal Scotland Bank, why were their faces covered? Maybe because they didn't want peopel to know who they were in case someone investigates and finds out that they work for the police or the inteligence services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno 357 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 What's the procedure for conviction dibble? If they get sent down are they in nick with the rest of the inmates or segregated? Jonno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Come on it was government provocateurs, most probably MI-5 or Mi-6 who tried to stir up trouble and make peaceful protests seem like thuggish behgaviour. All they covered on the news was some thugs with balaclavas smashing the Royal Scotland Bank, why were their faces covered? Maybe because they didn't want peopel to know who they were in case someone investigates and finds out that they work for the police or the inteligence services. I think you may find that MI5 has more than enough on its plate without the need to incite minor riots against capitalism. MI6 doesn't get involved in domestic issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I just had a thought (must be careful or my feet might drop off ) anarchists, balaclarvas, dressed in black, threatening behavior, were have I heard that discription before? oh yeah thats right hunt sabs, shame the police don't attack them with the same amount of enthuseasum as they do the obviously far more dangerous types they have in cities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well, it's another sign that the Police FORCE has been pussified by the liberal hand wringers and benders like that Brian Pillock geezer. It was made worse by renaming the force to Police Service. In my day we had a healthy respect for the Police, but over time the population look upon them with distain and therefore society starts to suffer. There's not nearly enough Police brutality anymore. The chap in the video, from my experience, is clearly taking the **** by holding them up from progressing along the street and dithering. He'd had been told to move along and after a few warnings I don't blame them for starting to get physical. Some people just don't understand anything else other than a quick beating. This is a result of civilisation becoming too civilised. You can't achieve anything with just words with the likes of the aggressive belligerent types that frequent protests with the intent to cause trouble. I read that the video shown wasn't the first time he'd clashed with the law on that day either, so until the whole story is know, which it won't be, then nobody will know for sure. Having said all that, I'm sorry the poor ****** died and send my most sincere condolences to his family. He obviously had heart issues, unknown to him, and the excitement of the day did him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p@cman Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The guy looked dazed / a bit woozy from the start of the clip. I just hope that it doesn't transpire that he was unwell. Yes, I thought that too. It is not beyond the bounds of reason that the chap was actually suffering a heart attack at the time he was assaulted by the policeman. He may not have been physically able to get out of the way quickly as his heart was compromised. The man only managed to get another 50 yards or so up the street before he suffered his cardiac arrest. He certainly didn't deserve the rough treatment he received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well, it's another sign that the Police FORCE has been pussified by the liberal hand wringers and benders like that Brian Pillock geezer. It was made worse by renaming the force to Police Service. In my day we had a healthy respect for the Police, but over time the population look upon them with distain and therefore society starts to suffer. There's not nearly enough Police brutality anymore. The chap in the video, from my experience, is clearly taking the **** by holding them up from progressing along the street and dithering. He'd had been told to move along and after a few warnings I don't blame them for starting to get physical. Some people just don't understand anything else other than a quick beating. This is a result of civilisation becoming too civilised. You can't achieve anything with just words with the likes of the aggressive belligerent types that frequent protests with the intent to cause trouble. I read that the video shown wasn't the first time he'd clashed with the law on that day either, so until the whole story is know, which it won't be, then nobody will know for sure. Having said all that, I'm sorry the poor ****** died and send my most sincere condolences to his family. He obviously had heart issues, unknown to him, and the excitement of the day did him in. I think your definition of civilised is quite different to mine Peter if it involves such a completely disproportionate use of force for merely getting in the way. Whenever I read of these incidents, and they do seem to be happening with increasing frequency, I think that could be my son, my brother or me in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think you have to be doing something very very wrong to elicit the sort of violent response that the world has seen on that video clip and the "officer"! concerned made an error of judgment so grave he or she should not be in our Police Force. Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 If being shoved from behind and falling over shocks you, or is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, then you have lead a very sheltered life indeed. Again, nobody knows what happened before the video footage. There is a time for when asking politely or telling someone to do something is over and things need to escalate. That action isn't something that'll kill a person. The human body can withstand pretty serious impacts/drops etc. What did him in was heart problems, whether they be inherited genetic or developed over time by poor diet and lifestyle. Someone jumping out and shouting 'BOO' would have had a similar result, you wouldn't expect to be charged with manslaughter for doing that. Also, I think you misunderstood what I meant by becoming too civilised as a nation. ;-) Not saying that they Police weren't totally wrong, just suggesting that things may not be as black and white that 30 seconds of video from 30 mins of proceedings appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 If being shoved from behind and falling over shocks you, or is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, then you have lead a very sheltered life indeed. Again, nobody knows what happened before the video footage. There is a time for when asking politely or telling someone to do something is over and things need to escalate. That action isn't something that'll kill a person. The human body can withstand pretty serious impacts/drops etc. What did him in was heart problems, whether they be inherited genetic or developed over time by poor diet and lifestyle. Someone jumping out and shouting 'BOO' would have had a similar result, you wouldn't expect to be charged with manslaughter for doing that. Also, I think you misunderstood what I meant by becoming too civilised as a nation. ;-) Not saying that they Police weren't totally wrong, just suggesting that things may not be as black and white that 30 seconds of video from 30 mins of proceedings appear. Being shoved and falling over is shocking if the bloke was busy having a heart attack.You say that action isnt going to kill someone so does that mean all the people who punched someone and they died should be let out of jail because that action hardly ever kills people either.And you may aswell release all the people that have thrown things at people and killed also because that hardly ever kills people. It is just another example of the police getting away with things the rest of us wouldnt.And the cover up has already started by trying to discredit the bloke by saying he had had a drink,he was asked to move yada,yada,yada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 If the fella was impeding the police then the correct course is for the police to arrest him for obstruction, not beat him with a trunction and push him to the ground as he walks away with his hands in his pockets. what next, CS gas in the face for people who back chat a traffic warden or a quick beating for running a flash trap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 We live in strange times. Anarchist rioters bring a major city centre to a standstill yet this incident invokes more comment than the underlying "demonstration". Things like this happen. It isn`t right but it is the result of trying desperately hard to carry out policing with some degree of consent from the populace. I`m old and far too right wing but the alternative to the relatively passive massed ranks of police, and one which would remove the chance of such incidents happening again, would be to employ the tactics favoured in countries such as South Africa. There is no interface with the police and public. No opportunity to protest peacefully. No opportunity to disperse quietly. Water cannon are used to dampen their enthusiasm, then CS gas is deployed and if that does`nt work, shotguns are fired into the crowd. In a charged and tense situation a man is pushed to the ground. In a riot, albeit on the periphery, you can`t have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter De La Mare Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'd be all in favour for liberal spraying of disrespectful scroats hurling abuse for being caught parking illegally. Hell, maybe even some sort of cattle prod might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Come on it was government provocateurs, most probably MI-5 or Mi-6 who tried to stir up trouble and make peaceful protests seem like thuggish behgaviour. All they covered on the news was some thugs with balaclavas smashing the Royal Scotland Bank, why were their faces covered? Maybe because they didn't want peopel to know who they were in case someone investigates and finds out that they work for the police or the inteligence services. Makes sense, after all, the the Army were wearing police uniforms during the miners strike, the Wapping riots were started by the SAS and Keith Blakelock was killed by the security services to stir up racial resentment during the Broadwater Farm riots. Really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 He looked stoned or ****** to me just taking a slow walk not making a problem for anybody!As for was the force used the said police officer I can only say he must have a small man member. Just a case of a jumped up **** in a police uniform. he was neither mate, he was just a bit remidial. The police were heavy handed, but at the same time, they are trained that way. I can see both sides of this, but what can be done now? just a very sad thing to happen, and i feel sorry for his family. The police need a kick in the pants after this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbithunter2008 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 So what happen when plod get Taser's? Any body who don't say yes sir gets it? Even if said man was shouting and having a go 5 minutes before. He had clearly calmed down. The force used was to much and somebody is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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