mikky Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 just had my 5 yearly visit for my renewals,was told that you cannot shoot foxes (even though they come under vermin) with a 17 but i was under the impression you could if you wanted to , i am interested to see how they word it on my new ticket,has anyone else been told the same ? i have been told i can have a high capacity shot gun for practical shotgunning and vermin control but he didnt say anything about not shooting foxes with it mikky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 if you've got vermin control on your condition for the shot gun then you're good to go mate, otherwise just dont tell them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Depends very much on local firearms depts. Mine won't allow ANY rimfire on fox, and fox must be conditioned seperately. A neighbouring force, however, allow .17hmr for fox, and fox comes under "Vermin". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 A neighbouring force, however, allow .17hmr for fox, and fox comes under "Vermin". Yup.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) I have fox and vermin stated on my HMR, Sounds like another force taking the P*** out of the ACPO guidelines......call the BASC Edited December 11, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Just tell them that if your land owners trap a fox in a live catch trap you need to humanely shoot them at close range, the .17 is perfect for that because a shotgun can mash up the trap Edited December 11, 2009 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 there not allowed in herts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 there not allowed in herts Or rather they choose to interpret the law differently to other counties. As has been said, have a word with BASC and see what they have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 West Mercia worded mine to say vermin with the .22 and .17hmr and a seperate bit to say fox with the .17hmr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 there not allowed in herts I beg to differ. My ticket says vermin for all rifles. No mention of fox. So I wouldn't be breaking the law as Herts define a fox as vermin; I checked this with a girl in the licencing department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikky Posted December 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 how can the law be different in different counties...is up to one bloke behind a desk,does he decide whether its humane or not.......surely individuals cant interpret the law how they see it...and then enforce it....if i ring up and disagree will they make it be more difficult in the future if i put in for variations etc....if the powers that be say its ok to shoot foxes with a .17 why should it be a problem at all...you try and do everything by the book only to find someone keeps moving the goal posts sod it... i'm off for a beer mikky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I have fox and vermin stated on my HMR, Sounds like another force taking the P*** out of the ACPO guidelines......call the BASC actually the guidelines say hmr NOT suitable for fox, so be gratefull for a more liberal view, my force wont allow hmr for fox so they very nicely gave me a .243 still got the hmr for bunnies mind. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Humane dispatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 actually the guidelines say hmr NOT suitable for fox, so be gratefull for a more liberal view, my force wont allow hmr for fox so they very nicely gave me a .243 still got the hmr for bunnies mind. KW They dont directly list HMR in the guidelines. However they suggest that the energy it produces wouldnt be suitable. Never the less they also suggest that a large bore centerfire above 6mm should not be held for 'good reason' to dispatch vermin and fox. Something which i think the majority of members tickets would now contradict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 there not allowed in herts i've got them stated "pest control, fox control" on mine in Herts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcs1972 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I've got one of the Herts FEO's coming round in the next week or so to look at my newly bolted in safe (finally found a brick wall), I'll ask him as he's one of the more approachable ones........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapper063 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 my cz 22lr is ok for foxes on my ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I've got one of the Herts FEO's coming round in the next week or so to look at my newly bolted in safe (finally found a brick wall), I'll ask him as he's one of the more approachable ones........ It'll be Greg and I'm not sure what his opinion is on the matter. I didn't raise it at my interview and his office girl, Mary confirmed if foxes were vermin. If you want a rimmy for foxes, it might just be worth saying nothing. I know it sounds silly, but it sounds as if the Herts shooters all have it worded differently on their ticket. Greg's a top bloke and if it's any help, he's a Watford fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) If you have a ticket for rimfires (Both .22 and 17HMR) and the condition reads: the shooting of vermin and ground game and for zeroing on ranges or land deemed suitable etc, etc, etc, but there is no mention of Fox then does it not come down to how you classify Fox? Are Foxes not classed as Vermin? I should add that I am only questioning a point and that I am not overly interested in shooting foxes and prefer to concentrate on "smaller" vermin, i.e. rabbits, pigeons, etc: even though I personally believe that the 17HMR is more than capable of taking out a Fox Humanely as long as it is a well placed shot fired within sensible range. Edited December 13, 2009 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 As already said, the ACPO guide lines say that HMR is not suitable for fox. I asked for a .223 for fox, and it was granted with no problems. It probably comes down to some people thinking that the HMR can still do the job out to silly ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 The Home Office Guidelines to Firearms Officers are just that 'guidelines' so it's up to the individual officers to interpret them (within the law) as they see fit for each area. If you don't agree with what your officer says then talk, don't argue as you'll be the loser, but discuss the matter with them and give good reasons why you want a certain facility. In my experience most FAO are open to the right reasons. At the end of the day they are responsible to the Chief Constable for the area so have to be able to substantiate their reasons to the boss if push comes to shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) there seems to be some different view's with the herts lads, not having my fac that long iwas wondering if they have tightened up on the 17hmr for foxes, Before the application was submitted i had a telephone conversation with my feo (AB) who i must say was more than helpful, We discussed the purpose for what i going to use the riffles and i told him rabbits crows and fox, he then went onto tell me that a 17hmr and 22 lr was fine for rabbits and crow but would not allow them for fox, i then ask what he recomends for fox and was told ,222, 22,50 or 223 , When he came to vist he said that he was qiute happy with my application for which i had applied for (17hmr, 22lr 223, fac air) and forward it to the CC,in just over 3 weeks it arrived at my door, fair play to herts police, kenny Edited December 13, 2009 by kenny5406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 there seems to be some different view's with the herts lads, not having my fac that long iwas wondering if they have tightened up on the 17hmr for foxes, Before the application was submitted i had a telephone conversation with my feo (AB) who i must say was more than helpful, We discussed the purpose for what i going to use the riffles and i told him rabbits crows and fox, he then went onto tell me that a 17hmr and 22 lr was fine for rabbits and crow but would not allow them for fox, i then ask what he recomends for fox and was told ,222, 22,50 or 223 , When he came to vist he said that he was qiute happy with my application for which i had applied for (17hmr, 22lr 223, fac air) and forward it to the CC,in just over 3 weeks it arrived at my door, fair play to herts police, kenny This may well be the official line, but after meeting you deemed you to have a good enough grasp of the HMR's limits/sensible enough, to be trusted to make the judgement of if it was a suitable situation to use the HMR on fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I'm another in Herts who had a .17 and my FEO classes foxes as vermin, when I went for my .223 variation I got foxes and vermin listed for both calibres. Personally asking too many questions gets the issue clarified for you in a way you may not like, bearing in mind the number of times you get stopped and your conditions questioned I was happy that using mine for foxes was fine under the vermin condition. Also were they to want to take you to court they would also have to claim that foxes weren't vermin and also say why they found the caliber unsuitable yet a neighbouring force didn't as there are lots of people on here who could produce their ticket to show what a farce the system is. Personally if you've vermin listed I wouldn't ask the question as once they've said no to you its hard to claim ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 What I can't get to grips with is whether Foxes are vermin or not? I know my force list them seperately which suggests they're not, but then it's not unknown for any force to be wrong or mislead! Personally I think Foxes deserve more respect, but then the HMR is ok in some situations when it's taken at close range or in a trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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