Show some compassion

[the_commoner]

I would urge you all to show a bit of compassion in the next few weeks while this cold snap is enveloping us all.

 

With the temeratures plumetting to -6 and below and snow covering all greenery pigeon will be dying in their 100,s of thousands up and down the country

 

If its anything like the last big freeze in the mid 80,s ( and there is every chance it will be) pigeon numbers could be hit massively to the extent that certain areas will see a serious decline in pigeon numbers in the next few seasons.

 

It may be good for crop protection but if you want to preserve your sport in hard shot areas show a bit of restraint and compassion for your quarry.

 

Plus if you dont get out for a few weeks you will enjoy your shooting trip all the more, i can guarrantee it

 

 

i didn't think under the general license we were allowed to shoot pigeon 'for sport' as such if they are damaging crops whether they are thin or not in order to keep them on the vermin list then we should be shooting them to protect crops .......................

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

i didn't think under the general license we were allowed to shoot pigeon 'for sport' as such if they are damaging crops whether they are thin or not in order to keep them on the vermin list then we should be shooting them to protect crops .......................

Nore should guides be taking out paying clients if you read the fine details of the general licence.

Like fisherman mike says there is not one person on this forum who shoot pigeons and does not find it enjoyable .

So that denotes it being a sport all a very fine line in the eyes of the law.

Crops maybe being stripped bare but crops are easliy reseeded and replaced.

A pigeon population if shooting is not controlled over harsh weather could take years recovery .

Yes we perform control of numbers but we do not want huge population loss either.

And rape will recovery from pigeon damage is bull when some take of crops being damaged to point of no return.

Most crop fail due to poor crop rotation and disease rather than any vermin damage.

Yes may affect yields but not wipe out the crop.

All the best Oth

[Pedro]

Would the BASC introduce a ban only on wildfowl?

 

Somebody said to me yesterday that ANY shooting when conditions are like this and have been for more than 2 weeks, is banned?

 

Never heard of that personally, but wondered if anyone else had?

 

P.

[henry d]

I prepare to be shot down in flames but if there is a sever lack of food, pigeons remain vermin AND they are starving the KINDEST thing we can do is reduce their numbers.

 

There will then be more food available for the remaining birds.

 

I can't see putting guns away and letting them starve to death is in any way humane.

 

(For the record I don't shoot pigeons!)

 

I disagree, as when you shoot you will also disturb birds and they will use up precious energy moving elsewhere.

 

Show restraint when the ground is covered.

 

BTW - Mike, I have just come back from a walk and was pleased to see a kingfisher and they seem to be doing better at the moment as the river is lower and running very clear.

[the_commoner]

my point is that it is possibly damaging to admit on a public forum such as pigeonwatch that pigeons are shot for sport and for you holding onto your permission

Edited January 6, 2010 by meinderby

[Alanl50]

i was out today shooting pigeons on the request of farmer who has hundreds of pigeons plagueing his rape fields, some are covered but the patches poking though are getting stripped bare ,the birds i shot were still good condition and had berries ect in crops,the problem with showing compassion is it might well cost you your shooting rights if your not doing your job theres plenty that will fill ya boots.

 

Ultimately its Shoot it or lose it

 

Alan

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

my point is that it is possibly damaging to admit on a public forum such as pigeonwatch that pigeons are shot for sport

No whats damaging is to admit on a public forum that some are shooting thin underweight and under pressure birds.

Under the unbrella of vermin control wake up boys most members of the public understand this and accept it.

As the thread starters title suggest compassion with control is needed at the present time.

Regards OTH

[the_commoner]

you could argue that its humane .........

[wrightchopper]

oh well back to the clays again then, hope the lorry delivering them dosen't break down or get stuck, else they'll be a shortage of them as well

[Ferret Master]

I've stopped shooting until this weather thaws out.

 

FM

[Fisherman Mike]

Good for you FM so have I.

 

There are some amongst us who I refer to as "Herring Fishermen" and we all know what happened to that particular industry.

[scolopax]

The rape on the main farm I shoot is getting hammered (well what is showing above the snow). Not bothered about shooting the pigeons hard, every time I pass I stop and let a few shots off to shift them. Shot one yesterday and two today, all were starting to lose weight, not desparately thin just yet but they soon will be.

 

On the same farm we had a game shoot on Monday and shot four woodcock, they were plump enough but in hindsight they were not flying very strongly, more as if they were conserving energy than really suffering just yet but I think they will start to lose condition soon as this weather looks set to continu.

 

I was out wildfowling this morning and managed to shoot two greylag, the geese were wary and flying strongly but both those I shot were light so I think that is the end of my wildfowling for now.

[proTOM1]

I have been shooting on rape on our shoot since sunday as they are causing so much damage ,we have had some snow here but not all fields of rape are covered due to some of the rape being well on so birds are finding it ,they are also hitting the maize strips and the feeders have not shot any thin birds as yet .

 

I will be leaving them alone now till the snow goes unless i am called out and then i will decide if its fair or not !

[deny essex]

I may be a quite a bit older than many on here and remember the days before rape when a hard winter had pigeon dropping in droves.

The farming of rape substantialy helped sustain the pigeon population and increase it to its present population irrespective of magical magnets and gizmos, bird scarers and dead eyed ***** that can shoot hundreds in a day.

True that any wild creature is going to suffer from a bad winter but the woodpigeon is one of the born survivers much more so than many other birds, although any creature should be respected in difficult weather conditions the woodpigeon has got through worse winters and increased it population.

As all ready said we have our permission to do a job for the farmer on a classified pest, if pigeons are hitting on a field it needs to be addressed, how hard and for how long should be down to the individual as he moraly feels, a balance between doing what is required by the farmer for crop protection without overdoing it has to be on the individuals head.

[benelli montefeltro]

what i would find hypocritical is that while some here are urging restraint on the pigeons, they more than likely shoot on through spring and summer, when "crop protection" becomes so important. leaving the young to starve on the nest. not a nice thought. for the record i stop each year soon as hear a pigeon cooing or display flighting which here is usually early feb. altho because of the weather im stopped now. its sad to see such a cold hard attitude to the pigeon on here. i honestly believe people just see them as another target

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

what i would find hypocritical is that while some here are urging restraint on the pigeons, they more than likely shoot on through spring and summer, when "crop protection" becomes so important. leaving the young to starve on the nest. not a nice thought. for the record i stop each year soon as hear a pigeon cooing or display flighting which here is usually early feb. altho because of the weather im stopped now. its sad to see such a cold hard attitude to the pigeon on here. i honestly believe people just see them as another target

Hi BM

If you read my post talk from the housing estate then you would stop shooting at the begining of january .

As I have seen heard my first cooing diving pigeon of 2010.

Whats your thoughts on that then would you stop in january because going by your statement then you should.

Regards OTH

[hendersons]

We have only had a couple of days of snow haven't we? It hasn't been weeks or anything like that.Have they really lost that much condition in the two days that snow has been on the ground that they are all going to start dropping out of the sky any second. The pigeons don't seem to mind eating the rape with a decent frost on it so around here they have been eating until around 3:30 yesterday they may struggle to find the huge quantaties of rape for a while as of today or until the snow melts a bit but we have plenty of woods with berrys and the like to feed a hungry pigeon. So while i'm very aware that they may start to struggle soon for now it is business as usual.I will keep my eyes open for bird quality or quantity starting to drop, I think like with all shooting you have to use your own judgement and be a bit sensible about it.

nick

[al4x]

Crops maybe being stripped bare but crops are easliy reseeded and replaced.

 

 

you can tell its not your livelihood they can be reseeded but it all comes at a cost when farming is hard pushed and the spring crop won't yield as well. The problem is rape thats visible is getting hit hard whether you like it or not, as lots is covered this means if your farmer is unlucky enough to have one showing that the birds do need to be kept off it. If you tell the average farmer you won't shoot pigeons on his rape because you feel sorry and want to give them a break odds are he'll either do it himself or find someone who will. I was shooting on Boxing day and we had a morning on them and the 45 acre field has taken a hammering since. A certain amount and it will come back but its getting close to call as it gets worse they will have to be shot though ours generally get a break due to the pheasant syndicate, a sign that its getting bad is the farmer called me to organise it and said the syndicate will have to like it or lump it as his main living is from the crops, we had 25 in a morning just sitting in a wood roosting them which is unusual for here and none were thin

Edited January 6, 2010 by al4x

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

you can tell its not your livelihood they can be reseeded but it all comes at a cost when farming is hard pushed and the spring crop won't yield as well. The problem is rape thats visible is getting hit hard whether you like it or not, as lots is covered this means if your farmer is unlucky enough to have one showing that the birds do need to be kept off it. If you tell the average farmer you won't shoot pigeons on his rape because you feel sorry and want to give them a break odds are he'll either do it himself or find someone who will. I was shooting on Boxing day and we had a morning on them and the 45 acre field has taken a hammering since. A certain amount and it will come back but its getting close to call as it gets worse they will have to be shot though ours generally get a break due to the pheasant syndicate, a sign that its getting bad is the farmer called me to organise it and said the syndicate will have to like it or lump it as his main living is from the crops, we had 25 in a morning just sitting in a wood roosting them which is unusual for here and none were thin

Worked and grew up on a farm managed a farm worked in farming till recent times apart from a period in the armed forces know the in and out of profits loss in the farming more than some of the board members only due to my working history.

And when I was manager I would not want to see any animal suffer from hunger due to shooting pressure .

Notice you did not quote the full post as it gives a more complex reply than that.

It about control of numbers and control of the damage .

All the very best OTH

[M ROBSON]

Pigeons are very important to me, part of my income revolves around shooting them commercially, so I certainly don't want to be seeing any die from starvation. And I'm sure neither do any of the other members of this site.

 

The problem comes when I need a lot of land to run my business, and if a farmer keeps phoning me to shoot Pigeons on his crop if I don't turn up soon he'll easily find someone else!

 

I had several thousand pigeons feeding on my game crops on my shoot 2 weeks ago, they seemed quite despirate to feed, I didn't shoot any during the time they were on it as it was my crop and the farmer was happy with my decision. Most of the crop is gone now and the majority of the pigeons have moved elsewhere. It seems the birds may have been "tamer" than normal due to the good feeding they were taking advantage of, standing Barley & wheat, Fodder Rape & Kale, sunflowers, quinoa, oats & linseed.

 

In the last 2 days I've had 6 farmers phone me up about pigeons feeding on their Rape or Kale fodder. So today I went out with an open mind, If the birds seemed despirate or were thin at all I would stop shooting. All of the 42 birds I picked up were in good condition, I checked every one. They decoyed well but weren't stupid, I flared quite a few that saw me. I even shot a young squab that was in tip top condition.

 

I am going to continue shooting and keeping my farmers happy until I see signs of the birds loosing weight or showing signs of despiration.

 

Mark.

[bruno22rf]

I look at this another way.Lets say, for example, that theres enough food available to feed 1/2 a million pigeons over the next week.Lets then assume that theres a million birds competing for that food and it gets eaten by all of them i.e. each bird gets half of what it needs to survive,Result?-a million dead birds.If we were to shoot as many as a half then would'nt we be saving the other half?I know that this is simplified somewhat but surely the theory holds some water? :yp:

[rjimmer]

Researchers in the 60s decided that reducing pigeon numbers in general, did nothing for crop protection because the amount shot would have died during the winter anyway.

Roost shooting of pigeons can therefore be seen to be a waste of time from a crop protection point of view, and now probably illegal.

Individual field shooting was the only way that shooting would protect crops.

The feed value of most green winter crops is not enough to sustain pigeons, it is just slow starvation no matter how much they eat.

Rape may have altered things from a food value point of view, I don't know.

The mild winters that we have been having for decades have meant that pigeons have been able to breed all through the year, hence the increase in population.

It's been said that rape does not need protecting until February, as it will recover from any pigeon pressure prior to that. The weather we're having at the moment might mean that this is disprooved.

Giving up shooting pigeons after winter is not doing the crop protection arguement any good.

I wonder if the stop-shooting advocates would have different opinions if dead thin pigeons were worth as much as fat ones!

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

rjimmer

I dont think a huge amount of shooters shoot pigeons because of what there worth fat or thin 25p when a cartridge is about that.

In the 60s the goverment also had a programme of nest poking and egg pricking I do belive some older members could correct me if I am wrong.

Regards OTH

[rjimmer]

rjimmer

I dont think a huge amount of shooters shoot pigeons because of what there worth fat or thin 25p when a cartridge is about that.

There have been enough posts about getting some return for the cost of cartridges!

In the 60s the goverment also had a programme of nest poking and egg pricking I do belive some older members could correct me if I am wrong.

Regards OTH

They also did experiments with narcotic bait.

[Alanl50]

Quote, rjimmer

 

It's been said that rape does not need protecting until February, as it will recover from any pigeon pressure prior to that. The weather we're having at the moment might mean that this is disprooved.

 

Hi rjimmer

Interesting point :yp: the farmer with the rape I shoot over maintains it needs looking after till march then it safe?

Im no Farmer so I really dont know, truly before all the sarky comments come in, only by observations of last year when 4 fields were decimated and failed to recover, ploughed back in and set with sugar beet, Myself and another shooter were constant we shot so many pigeons, but we never managed to beat them.

My time off with my op has meant Ive been able to conduct a 2-3 times daily vigil across his land and so far the rape is really coming on.

Alan